17 Comments
I feel this example shows one of the weaknesses of the learning model. Seems like "even" is the only idiomatic translation here, but a non-native speaker can only guess which of the provided translations of "até" is correct. I haven't thought of a better way yet... but it feels unfair somehow to get this wrong when there's no earlier hint about the idiom.
And to reply to myself -- if you encounter this sentence first in the multichoice question where you're asked to pick a translation, you can infer the correct meaning of até in this context. If you encounter this sentence first in any other context, you can only guess. So it seems to me that there are some words/idioms that should only be presented in certain ways first so the learner has a chance of inferring meaning corrrectly, before they see the word/idiom in a more ambiguous context.
From what I found out so far in Duolingo, if a word has different translations, the most appropriate translation for that expression is usually the first one on the list. It is the case here: "even" is listed before "until". Furthermore, Duolingo's method of learning is much of a trial and error method. Error makes you practice more and better memorize and/or understand the words and phrases. So, in a way, making you fail is part of the process. (note: this is my opinion, not a Duolingo fact).
I put "until the boys speak", which was wrong. Google translate suggests "Até que os meninos falam" instead. It seems to like using 'Até que' for 'until' in a few other sentences I tried.
Until implies another conjugation of the verb.
Até os meninos falarem (future subjunctive)
Até que os meninos falEm (present subjuntive)
Both mean "until the boys talk".
But the present tense "Até os meninos falam" means "Even the boys speak"
In English sometimes it's not necessary to use THAT (que), but it IS in Portuguese (and Spanish)
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But what about a phrase like "Até logo!" which I believe means (literally) 'until later,' and is used for 'See you later!'
Yup, and the song Até Amanha, where it seems to mean "by". Another of those slippery words that confuses the program as well as us.
The verb is absent from those expressions. If the verb were there (ex: "Até nos vermos logo!" - (lit.) "Until we see each other later") it would have to be on the future subjunctive, just like danmoller said.
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One given meaning for 'até' is 'until' but this is marked as incorrect. 'Until' is far the commonest usage that I have come across.
Grr... was the last question, no hearts left. Multiple choice. Easy. Check "Even the boys speak", but not "Even the children speak". I always used crianças for children >.< Didn't even think meninos could also mean a mixed group (even though it's obvious now)
Até means until as well as even. why is: "Until the boys speak" not accepted?
It needs the future subjunctive tense for the verb "falar" ("falarem" instead of "falam"). danmoller already answered this, see his answer above.
