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"Chissà a chi sarà stato dato il premio."

Translation:Who knows who will have been given the prize.

September 2, 2015

51 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jbmc10

Why can't I say 'to whom' instead of 'who'? Actually this would be more grammatically correct, no?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarkDeVernon

Three years later, and I gave the same answer as you "Who knows to whom the prize will have been given", and it is still being marked as wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jason635211

4/27/19 still being marked wrong (with prize as the subject of passive clause). As a proof, what happens if "il premio" is changed to plural form? Will the verb follow suit?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marninger

Based on information from the sources listed below I think DL has a point in trying to teach us to (most times) use the following translations for Italian relative pronouns:

a chi = to who
a cui = to whom

FluentYou
ThoughtCo
Learn Italian Daily

I also looked up whether to use who or whom:

'Who' should be used to refer to the subject of a sentence,
and 'whom' to the object of a verb or preposition. When in doubt, try this simple trick:

  • If you can replace the word with “he”' or “'she,” use who.
  • If you can replace it with “him” or “her,” use whom.

Quick test 1: He knows / him knows
Quick test 2: he will have been given / him will have been given

Sources:
1. Cambridge Dictionary
2. ProofreadNow.com

Chissà = who knows
a chi = to who
sarà stato dato = will have been given
il premio = the prize

~ Who knows who will have been given the prize.

But then Zimtladen has a different view on this


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DonFeidner

It is absolutely more correct in a grammatical sense. You get a lingot from me. Duo gets a bad grade on this one.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/carolynn357728

Agreed. Who Knows to whom the prize will have been given. In correct English we do not end a sentence with a preposition. I reported too, but just like the protest over Crowns, we seem to have little impact on DL. However, once and only once, I did actually get an email from DL to say my objection was upheld and my answer included in the correct responses going forward.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/fadgey

This is something up with which we will not put.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CharlesRit3

"Who knows to whom the prize will have been given" was accepted April 13, 2020.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/carolynn357728

Who knows to whom the prize will have been given is perfectly good English


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tyler_Norman

'Who knows to whom the prize will have been given'. Was still rejected.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FionaSinclair1

Have just tried that and amazed to be marked wrong!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bev78710

16.07.2018 'Who knows to whom the prize will have been given' still marked wrong although it's grammatically correct!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tonidapillipi

Jbmc10 - You are right. I have just reported back to DL that our answer is more correct than theirs. In fact They are wrong!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tyler_Norman

Interestingly, it is one of the few constructions in which 'whom' is still commonly used.

'Who knows who will have been given the prize' is much more common than 'Who knows whom will have been given the prize' but 'Who knows to whom the prize will have been given' is probably more often heard than, ''Who knows to who the prize will have been given'. .


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BrianPhilipBlack

And now, when confronted by this again, i put in 'who will have received the prize' only to be marked wrong and told it means who will have been give the prize. What is the italian for 'Go figure'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LindaNordin

who knows to whom the prize will be given. Why is this wrong...?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/john585666

Might be because DL wants ... will HAVE been given.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LindaNordin

who knows to whom the prize will be given. This should be correct also!! Marked wrong 5/27/18


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CharlesRit3

No, in your sentence the presentation of the prize will occur in the future: "will be given." In Duolingo's sentence the presentation happened in the past: "will have been given."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zimtladen

You mean it will have happened in (what will then, at that future time, be) the past. Hence Future Perfect.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LotSparham

DL: to whom it may concern in your team: please see comments & fix it; it's time! cheers!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mkisaacs

Yes, it is more grammatically correct to say, "Who knows to whom the prize will have been given." Duo still grades it as wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bellalu64

Agreed. I also put "to whom" and was marked wrong....will report.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WilliamM.G

Who knows to whom has been given the award. Duo Lingo -- is anyone home?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marninger

I think this part is a place to enable us users to communicate and help each other and it is rarely checked by any of the volunteer admins.

And I am sorry but for the moment I think you are mistaken: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/10323367?comment_id=48825088


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Deb660075

'Who knows to whom the prize will have been given' not accepted 5 April 2019


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Susannaara2

Peccato che in italiano vuol dire anche forse.... Forse se avessero scritto CHI SA... si sarebbe capito meglio...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Elizabeth514460

I also wrote to whom which is the correct form of English !


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/domi435290

Same problem as others to whom......


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/john585666

I translated "Who knows whom the prize will have been given. " and DL reported I missed a word and it should be "... given TO. And now I am not certain anymore. Any views from native speakers?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/carolynn357728

"Who knows to whom the prize will have been given." is the CORRECT translation for this native speaker. One is not supposed to end an English sentence with a preposition, e.g. "to". But exceptions do make the rule. The famous British Winston Churchill when corrected for such an error, replied "This is something up with which I shall not put .", (a very bizarre English sentence which follows the rule) to illustrate his point. In spoken English you will often hear "Who knows who the prize will have been given to."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/john585666

Thanks, Carolyn


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Virginia658405

What's wrong with 'to whom'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BilingualAndytoo

Nothing at all DL is wrong:


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marninger

I find the use of 'who' or 'whom' very confusing and had to look this up,
- this is what I found:

As 'whom' is the object form of 'who' it should be used when the person referred to is the object of the verb. An often recommended quick test is to check if it can be replaced with 'he' or 'him'. If it can be replaced by 'he' we should use 'who' and if it can be replaced with 'him' we should use 'whom'.

I order to simplify a check we can break the sentence discussed into two parts (with all the verbs in orange).

Who knows (Quick test: he knows)

who will have been given the prize. (Quick test: he will have been given the prize)

And in neither part is 'who' the object of any of the verbs . . . (As both items are objects of the person’s thoughts, I think the tendency is to want to use whom for the second thinking it is the object of the first, - but this is misleading.)

If you want to read/check-up further I think these are some good sources:
1. Cambridge Dictionary
2. ProofreadNow.com


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zimtladen

A native English speaker writes:

English is often very sloppy and slapdash about grammatical form. The sentence "Who will have been given the prize?" is a (grammatically very misleading) simplification of "To whom will the prize have been given?" In both cases "the prize" is the subject and "who/whom" is the indirect object (explicitly signalled by the "to" in the second case). The replacement of "to whom" by "who" is a syntactic nonsense, but it is what many people say.

The 'quick test' you refer to is usually reliable, but not here precisely because the first sentence is so grammatically deranged. Clearly the person referred to by "who" cannot be the subject of "will have been given" (unless the sentence is, say, referring to the transfer of slaves from one owner to another). The subject - what "will have been given" - is the prize.

Enclosing the sentence within the scope of "Who knows..." does not change any of this.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marninger

I do not want to disagree, - only to understand better . .

I Think in this case, we do not have to assume sloppy or slapdash English, - as the reference is the Italian sentence we are asked to translate.

Chissà a chi sarà stato dato il premio

I am only a student, I am not native nor do I have a linguistic degree in either of these languages, - but based on information from the sources listed below I think DL has a point in trying to teach us to use the following translations for Italian relative pronouns:

a chi = to who
a cui = to whom

FluentYou
ThoughtCo
Learn Italian Daily


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zimtladen

Historically the English "whom" was used for objects - both direct and indirect ("Whom did she marry?", "To whom did you give the book?") - while "who" was reserved for the subject of a verb.

In the last hundred years or so, use of "whom" has gradually come to seem fussy and outdated, and many people never use it at all, always preferring "who". It is therefore now misguided to suppose that "who" must signify a grammatical subject; as often as not, it is an object.

As for "a chi"/"a cui", isn't the difference here between the interrogative "chi?", and the relative pronoun "che" (shifted to "cui" because preceded by a preposition "a")? In the present case "Chissa..?" contains the implicit question "a chi sara' stato dato...?", which is why it is "a chi", not "a cui". But in English "who"/"whom" is used in the role of BOTH "chi" AND "che"/"cui" (in the case that "che"/"cui" refers to a person).

What I am saying is that the who <-> whom distinction (insofar as it still exists in English) is a different distinction from the chi <-> che/cui one in Italian - it is so to speak independent of (orthogonal to) it. So it is mistaken to suppose that in all cases who = chi, whom = che, to whom = a cui. These will be the right translations in certain contexts, but not necessarily.

Does that help? Does it make sense?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marninger

Well . . . I knew it was complicated and I probably need to read your comment a couple of times more . . .

But to make something positive of it maybe I now can consider myself at the intermediate Italian language level?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/fadgey

Got it on the third attempt, it's a bloody stupid sentence anyway.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kaj1971

Reported again


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/StefanoDL7

The English here is wrong. It should be "to whom". Who knows to whom would be okay, but who as a direct or indirect object must be "whom."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rick351313

What does this actually attempt to communicate in English?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KPQd0T

Dear Dou, why is passive voice used here without any previous lesson?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/clairelanc3

To whom the prize will have been given is NOT WRONG. There are two forms of passive voice in English, and although WE don't know who will give the prize, we can use this form.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/clairelanc3

??? We would rather say "who are you talking to" but "to whom are you talking"( grammatically correct but not much used. But when can you say : to who?

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