"We will choose the best cat, because it is free."

Translation:Roghnóimid an cat is fearr, mar tá sé saor.

September 3, 2015

13 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HonorClynes

Roghnóimid an cat is fearr toisc go bhfuil sé saor is fine!

September 3, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

Indeed it is, but you need to use the Report a Problem button so that it will be brought to the attention of the course creators, since they’re the only ones who can fix the exercise.

September 3, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/soupandbread

If 'saor' is intended as meaning 'without charge' it would be better followed with 'in aisce'. Otherwise the cat is cheap, not free. Of course he could be a 'free-cat' who has won his freedom from the shackles of domestication.

September 7, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Knocksedan

There was another real world example of saor meaning "cheap" in a Letter to the Editor of the Irish Times today.

The letter is a followup to a piece on the old narrow-gauge railways in Donegal, and mentions their use to transport people to special events, including one particular excursion on July 22nd, July 1923:

The latter excursion was notable for its advance publicity on separate large posters in both the English and Irish languages. The punchy slogans used at the foot of these posters read: “Quick Service– Cheap Fares” and Seirbhís Gasta–Ticéidí Saora.

October 13, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

Definition 1. ( j ) of saor³ in the FGB is

saor (in aisce), free, gratis.

so in aisce is optional for that meaning.

July 13, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Knocksedan

For a variety of reasons (one being an awareness that the name Saoirse means "Freedom", and that Saorstát Éireann was known as the Irish Free State in English) I know that I, along with many learners in ireland, assumed that saor means "no charge" when applied to the price of an item or service. But saor really does man "cheap" when you're talking about the price of something - the in aisce isn't really optional if you want to indicate that something is available at no charge (free as in beer, rather than free as in speech).

Note that the it's actually the in aisce in the FGB entry that carries the "gratis" meaning - one example from the FGB is
seachadadh in aisce - "free delivery".

(There's also an interesting example in the EID - "buckshee", a word you don't see much these days!)

July 13, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

Saor can mean either “gratis” (see definition 1. ( j ) of saor³ above or “gratis” in the EID) or “cheap” (definition 2 of saor³ above or “cheap” in the EID).

Similarly, saoirse can mean either “freedom” or “cheapness”, as noted in both the FGB and the EID.

That’s my first exposure to “buckshee” — the OED traces it back to WWI British Army slang for “baksheesh”.

EDIT: The English-Irish Phrase Dictionary, published a year before those punchy slogans were put on those posters, offers three translations for “he got it free gratis”: {@style=font-family: 'Bunchlo Arsa GC', 'BunchloArsaGC', serif; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12pt}Fuair sé saor é ; {@style=font-family: 'Bunchlo Arsa GC', 'BunchloArsaGC', serif; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12pt}Fuair sé i n-aisce é ; and {@style=font-family: 'Bunchlo Arsa GC', 'BunchloArsaGC', serif; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12pt}Fuair sé gan aon tsaġar díoluiġeaċta é.

July 13, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Knocksedan

I think you're being over reliant on dictionary definitions, with the FGB definition in particular being open to interpretation (It offers two English translations, separated by a comma, from two Irish phrases separated by parentheses. You interpret that as indicating that "free" and "gratis" are equally valid translations of saor, but "gratis" isn't just another word for "free", it's a narrower definition, equivalent to the parenthetical saor in aisce).

The Potafocal entries for saor and "cheap" show that in actual usage, when it comes to the matter of price or value, saor means "cheap", and you need the in aisce to indicate the "free gratis" meaning.

The examples include:
is saoire - "cheapest"
níos saoire - "cheaper"
ar phraghas níos saoire - "at a cheaper price"
beagáinín níos saoire - "a little bit cheaper"
aerlínte saora - "cheap airlines"
barraíocht eitiltí saora - "too many cheap flights"
fhuinneamh saor - "cheap energy"
i bhfad níos saoire - "much cheaper"
go mba thaitneamhaí agus go mba shaoire - "that it would be more enjoyable and cheaper"
ísleoidh an t-éileamh ar an tseirbhís níos saoire - "the demand for the cheaper service will decrease"
a gcuid táirgí a dhíol ar phraghas níos saoire - "to sell their products at a cheaper price"
fíon saor - "cheap wine"
léinte fíorshaora - "very cheap t-shirts"
béilí saora - "cheap meals"
ina bhfuil na hóstáin saor - "where the hotels are cheap"
allmhairiú saor "cheap import(s)"
saor in aisce - "free"
cead isteach saor in aisce - "free admission"
shaor-reic - "yard sale" (a "cheap sale", rather than a "free sale", I would have thought)
oibriú saor in aisce - "to work free of charge"
taisteal saor in aisce - "free travel"

There were 3 examples that might be open to interpretation: meánoideachas saor - "free secondary education" (Is "free education" just a matter of price?)
cic saor - "free-kick" - (I guess this is a kick where you are free from the challenge of the opposing team)
glaonna saora teileafóin - "cheap telephone calls". (The full sentence was Tá daoine in ann glaonna saora teileafóin a dhéanamh ar an idirlíon anois, where the author could have meant "free (gratis)" or "cheap").

July 14, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

Yes, I do interpret the FGB’s "saor (in aisce), free, gratis.” as meaning that either saor or saor in aisce can mean “free” or “gratis” — the parentheses indicate an optional addition. Similarly, I interpret the EID’s “gratis, Saor, in aisce.” as meaning that the restricted meaning of “gratis” can be translated by either saor or in aisce (which does not exclude additional possibilities such as saor in aisce), and I take the EIPD’s three translations of “he got it free gratis” as being equally valid. One can also look at the definitions of saor² in An Foclóir Beag, where in aisce and gan a bheith daor nó costasach, viz “gratis” and “inexpensive”, are given as distinct definitions (not to mention the other definitions of saor given there). Definition (f) in the eDIL shows that “gratis” has been one of the meanings of saor since Classical Modern Irish.

Saor being used more often today in its “inexpensive” meaning than in its “gratis” meaning does not make the “gratis” meaning wrong.

July 14, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Knocksedan

Saor being used more often today in its “inexpensive” meaning than in its “gratis” meaning does not make the “gratis” meaning wrong.

As I said in my original post, most learners start off with an assumption that saor means "gratis" as well as "liberated". So if they encounter saor meaning "gratis" somewhere outside a dictionary, they are all set. The problem, though, is that most of the uses of saor in the context of prices that they will encounter outside of a dictionary, actually mean "cheap", not "gratis", and it is important to be aware of this.

It's an important distinction, and soupandbread's comment is entirely appropriate, and highlights an important aspect of modern usage that Duolingo's exercise skates over.

July 15, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

I agree that it is important to be aware of that. I disagree with the entire appropriateness of soupandbread’s comment, since “Otherwise the cat is cheap, not free.” does not necessarily apply. (I agree with his comment that saor in aisce is unambiguously “gratis”.)

July 15, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Daithi2820

I added "in asice" because that is how I hear it when they announce events on Raidio na Gaeltacht. I expected it to come up "wrong" but it was accepted. Another thought: Tagann an tsaoirse le costas.

April 25, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Joshua807325

Saor in aisce?

January 1, 2018
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