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"Eu tenho três vezes tantos livros quanto ele."

Translation:I have three times as many books as he.

January 3, 2013

40 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/superfantastik

"I have three times as many books as him" has marked "him" as wrong. It says the answer should be "I have three times as many books as he." That's not generally used English, if it's even correct English at all. This should not be wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/emeyr

"As him" is widely used, but it's considered to be colloquial. It should be accepted as such.

Most people except English Literature majors and grammar teachers won't even notice the difference.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/richard2403

“As he does” and “as he has” are both grammatically correct and widely used. “As he” may in theory be grammatically correct but “as him” would be preferred by 99% of native speakers of English. Language evolves over time.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Howard

"as him" being wrong is one of those rules prescriptivists made up because they decided "as he" is more "logical."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/legatrix

Massive agree; annoying


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/e.cambourn

31/10/2014 "I have three times as many books as him" is now accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jesihcuhh

They corrected it! "Him" is now accepted ^.^


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WesJM-O

It has been corrected, but in the multiple choice (shite) version, "him" is not an option.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jez85

I'm here one month after it's been posted and it's still marked as incorrect...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/atlas85

I agree it sounds odd, but I think grammatically in English "...as he" is correct. Similar to how in English we are taught that saying "my friends and I" is more correct than "my friends and me". Maybe it would sound better if they adjusted it to say "as he does" to make it sound a little less awkward.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TobyBartels

So many people have been taught that ‘my friends and I’ is correct that they've started saying ‘to my friends and I’, which was never correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lesliewilman

Yes we are often taught such things, by people who think English should follow Latin rules; but that is not how English behaves. If there is a verb (ie it's a clause), "as he does", well and good, "My friends and I are going to the beach." but "You have insulted my friends and me." and "I have more than him," French doesn't say "Plus que je" but "plus que moi" .


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lingodingle

Jut because we truncate a clause does not mean we need to change the pronoun. Using "him" in place of "I" may be often heard spoken but it reflexes a poor usage of the English language. In order to keep some semblance of a coherent language we need to be educated as to what is proper. And in critical writing we should be technically correct. That is why we study English instead of just repeating what we hear and going with the flow. That is why we are studying correct Portuguese, to not sound like a half informed tourist. Aint that so?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ricky_clarkson

How much do you imagine it helps someone learning Portuguese to have their English corrected in ways that are clearly subjective? It just adds noise and dissatisfaction, regardless of what you think is correct grammar.

Also, idiom is a big part of language, i.e., what the speakers actually say has to be taken into account, otherwise you have an incorrect picture of the language.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lesliewilman

Do you mean "him in place of he", "reflects"? I do so disagree with your desire to reimpose Latin grammar (such as I, too, was taught at school in the 1950s) on our native language. No one but a pedant says "I am as good as he". Aside from anything else, it is the one who does say it who will sound like a tourist to 99% of native English speakers. Lastly, I do not imagine that I am learning correct, literary Portuguese (of Brazil) through this course. The use of tenses, determiners etc is very loose (that may be a pity) but reflects what natives expect to hear. Sticking your clitic pronouns in the middle!! of the grammatical future tense will certainly single you out as a FOREIGNER if you try it in Rio) so I guess - I have never been, and am unlikely, at my age, to go there.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mara756023

I'm not an English native speaker, so I don't want to enter in the polemics about he or him, but i just think this has nothing to see with latin grammar, the only question is: here do we have a subject (he) or a compliment (him)? This kind of grammar is not latin, it's the normal function all (or quite all) languages has...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Frencesca

Just say the appropriate verb after he, and you will see it is correct. Occasionally, we even learn a little English here :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rudneyfiori

sou brasileiro e essa maneira de falar não existe e não faz sentido, o mais correto e comum para dizer essa frase seria: "Eu tenho três vezes mais livros que ele."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mikemelnyk

In English, it is correct to use "he" in this situation since both clauses in a comparison should be parallel in grammatical structure, e.g., "I am as tall as he is".

In theory, it is acceptable to drop verb after the noun in the second item, e.g. "You are more intelligent than I." instead of "You are more intelligent than I am." I think this sounds weird to leave the final subject pronoun dangling -- at least it sounds weird to many of us in the USA -- so I think that's why we go to the object pronoun: "You are more intelligent than me."

So, a grammarian would say "...as he." is technically correct, but in in common usage, "... as him." is perfectly acceptable. Chalk this discrepancy up to "proper" English vs. the way it's actually spoken.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Latif61

There seems to be a general problem here. It is the truncation of the verb "he does" to "he". When the vowel is truncated in english it occurs where the context is implied usually by locality. So I could say "da da da than you" when i am taking to the other person face to face. or in a similar context "than I". the third person is not truncated in this way, because the eye contact or slight raise of the head to the person referred to is not possible when the person is not part of the conversation. "he does " would be used in the written word but rarely when spoken. "Him" would be the used form because it contains with in it a transition to the local of that person. One big problem with english if you are of a grammatical frame of mind is that it doesn't just have one set of grammatical rules. There were attempts in the second half of the 18 hundreds to latinise the language, they failed.. The flexible usage of english is why it is such a successful language, If you cant cope with that find another language to learn. "He" on its own is wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/emeyr

You have posited some interesting theories about pronouns in the nominative case. My reference is from an American textbook: "Harbrace Handbook of English". To wit:

"Use the nominative case after the conjunctions than and as if the pronoun is the subject of the elliptical clause. Ex: 'He is as intelligent as they.'"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Latif61

My fundamental point is that a linguistic approach is always lagging behind language use. The only languages that are fully codified are dead languages like latin. If you google search "i am better than he" in quotes you will probably find three things 1. Discussions like the one we are having where they will say that HE is grammatically correct" 2. Quotes from the quran 3. far more examples of the use him. not he. the later will be a large majority. If you went into a bar in england and used the "he" version on the sentence you would be considered effete or a foreigner. I am not saying this to be offensive. With my grammar hat on I hate it when some when says less when they mean fewer or proper when they mean properly. But if you are learning english as a foreign language you want to have current usage more than grammatical correctness.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Latif61

I see that 5 years ago this error was reported and nothing has been done. "He" is unquestionably wrong gramatically and would never be used. either side of the atlantic "HIM" is correct


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/emeyr

Duolingo's answer is correct and represents formal English. You can either include the auxiliary verb "does," or not. Using "him" is colloquial English.

I have three times as many books as he (does).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Latif61

In over 60 years of english usage I have never seen this usage I suspect you will never find it. It is a big problem with a language as grammatically loose as english when a grammarian starts to look at it, the rules simply do not match usage. if you are learning to speak a language you need to learn current usage.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/emeyr

Are you saying that you have never heard anyone say: "I have three times as many books as he [does]?" It is standard English grammar where I live.

The informal "him" is used a lot, but it is not accepted as correct in the SAT or TOEFL exams.

Learning a foreign language can help us learn about our own.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/emeyr

Blas: I agree with Michael Swan regarding the informality of "him" and the formality of "he". However, it is also correct (it's a form of ellipsis) to omit the final verb or auxiliary after the subject pronoun. Of course in short answers, the verb always accompanies the pronoun.

Swan is an excellent source except for discussing the subjunctive in English. American textbooks give more attention to the subjunctive as we use it in daily speech. Apparently, the subjunctive is considered overly formal in BrE. What is formal or informal depends on the culture.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/woa7dSD5

Oxford and Cambridge esl materials teach "as him." I can't say definitively, but my guess is that it is accepted on the TOEFL.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/emeyr

The TOEFL is a test of academic English for entrance into universities and private secondary schools in the US. The exam is difficult and doesn't accept colloquialisms or informal writing in its essays. For that reason, it is recommended that even contractions (don't, hasn't) be avoided because - and I quote: "they can make you seem flippant, blasé, and even uneducated. They have the same effect on the TOEFL essays, so avoid using them."

To succeed in the TOEFL, you should be able to read academic articles at the same pace as if you are reading conversational English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Latif61

Of course not "He does " is grammatically correct and commonly used. You will not hear the vowel dropped in this context.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Blas_de_Lezo00

Michael Swan, Practical English Usage, p. 124, entry 138.8 & p. 434, entry 425.2, says,

pronouns after than

In an informal style, object pronouns are used after than. In a more formal style, subject pronouns are used (usually with verbs).

She's older than me (informal)

She's older than I (formal)

informal use of object forms

In informal English, we use object forms not only as the objects of verbs and prepositions, but also in most other cases where the words do not come before verbs as their objects. Object forms are common, for example, in one-word answers and after be.

  • "Who said that?" - "(It was) him."

  • "Who's that?" - "(It's) me."

In a more formal style, we often prefer to use subject form + verb where possible.

  • "Who said that?" - "He did." (but not "He")

It is possible to use a subject form after be, but this is usually considered over-correct (especially in British English).

"It is I" or "It was he."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/emeyr

As another post on this page correctly indicates, truncating a verb or an auxiliary verb at the end of the sentence doesn't convert the subject pronoun "he" to an object pronoun "him". There is no alchemy here. That is just casual, colloquial English at work.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Latif61

The vowel is dropped most commonly in the second person, less commonly in the first person but never in the third person.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jesihcuhh

Why is "quanto" used instead of "que"? Isn't the words we need "than"? So why is "quanto"="how many" used?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ricky_clarkson

As far as I can tell, 'que' means 'that' and 'what', but not 'as', unlike in Spanish, where it means all three. I mention that as you seem to have a good level of Spanish.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jesihcuhh

I see. So if I want to say, "She has more cars than him", does it translate to "Ela tem mais carros quanto ele"? It just seems a bit unnatural, but maybe that's just because I'm used to using "que" in Spanish.

Or is "quanto" used when you say something like, "dois vezes tantos gatos"/"two times as many cats"? So if you want to say "___ times as many" you use "quanto"? Or do you just say "quanto" all around?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jackherbach12

No. You were correct initially. You say "Do que" for "than" "Ela tem mais carros do que ele." Tanto/quanto & Tao+ Quanto is a bit tricky.

You use "Tanto & Quanto" Or "Tanto(s)/Tanta(s)" (Depending on number of nouns you are reffering to, with comparing nouns. Ex " Eu tenho quantos livros tanto ele" If it was feminine: Ex " Eu tenho tantas garrafas quanto ele." If it was singular& masc : Ex " Eu tenho tanto dinheiro quanto ele."

You use Tao & quanto when comparing adjectives. and this does not change depending on gender or number Ex. " Eu sou tao jovem quanto ele"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ricky_clarkson

I'd love a native speaker's answer to your question; I hadn't realised it was so complex!

This book excerpt might help: http://books.google.com.ar/books?id=qEjIlDqBhPQCpg=PA77lpg=PA87#v=onepageqf=false

You'll need to copy and paste the link, duolingo seems to have chopped it at the first ampersand


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PineappleFrances

I have three times as many books as he DOES .... ENG WRONG.....

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