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  5. "Gracias por haber venido."

"Gracias por haber venido."

Translation:Thank you for having come.

January 3, 2013

409 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CGiattino

"Thank you for coming" and "thank you for having come" have different meanings. One may be more common, but they are both used in their respective circumstances.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Skeenee

Please use "thank you for having come" in a sentence. I have never heard that in my life!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnnRon

"Thank you for having come" IS a sentence. Maybe you want a paragraph that puts that sentence in context.

"We had such a good time chatting with you at our party last night. Thank you for having come."

It's sounds a bit stilted, just as "I am taller than he" sounds stilted, but that doesn't make it incorrect.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Winmar

It is a correct sentence, but I've never heard anyone say it!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/billyyo

Stop by. You would hear me say that. It is often used as a greeting for people at a party or similar gathering.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_smiles_

I imagine the "formal" sense of "thank you for having come" in scenarios like the host of a play, an orchestra, or any "stage" act.

Moreover, I think in any situation where a certain "etiquette" is expected (a la a formal party or someone simply wanting to be formal) this sort of phrase would be used.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dennis859795

Yeah, it definitely feels more formal. The situation that jumps into my head when I imagine someone saying that phrase is a person thanking people as they leave a funeral.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Luke934966

Definitely the sort of thing that would be said at the start of a formal work conference or some other such event... "Thank you for having come here today to discuss..." blah blah blah here are some power point slides.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/user_na_me

but i believe that this is not the meaning of the spanish sentence. "Gracias por haber venido" would be used in the same situation as "Thank you for coming"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnnRon

Many English speakers fail to perceive the distinction in English, even though there is one, but perhaps the distinction doesn't exist in Spanish. Not being a native Spanish speaker, I couldn't say for sure.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnnRon

Wouldn't "Thank you for coming" be "Gracias por venir"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/user_na_me

Yes, but i think "gracias por haber venido" means the same. I'm not sure which one would be used by native speaker though.

The spanish present perfect is not exactly the same as the english present perfect, so some sentences can't be translated literally.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JessicaYu4

any sentence CAN BE sentence, but never would an english native use this sentence or advise to use this sentence. it's completely unnatural. "thank you for coming" suffices


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/donrua1

Not incorrect, but useless.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ErikBoyle

If it's useless, why have so many people mentioned they say it? You seem to think that since you wouldn't say it, no one ever should. Coming from someone who cited descriptivism via popular vote as evidence that you were right in your other post, this is a decidedly prescriptivist position to take.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

DonRua: "The 16 grammar Nazis that can't let this thread die?" Well now, that's funny, because it doesn't seem your implied admonition to "move on" applies to you. Moreover, as ErikBoyle says, the prescriptivist attitude does attach to you, not to those of us who accept the construct as valid and useful.

As to "the 325 who agree with" you, I hope you understand that it is only those most likely to have a problem with the sentence who ever enter this thread in the first place, and then, like you, do so in order to grouse about it. Invoking the number of "complainants" on the thread simply doesn't pass muster. To do so ignores the thousands of DL users who have gone through this exercise and continued on their way without ever feeling the need to inquire about the validity of "having come" or to register their disapproval. The thread itself, as are all these "nobdy would ever say" discussions, is heavily weighted toward those with a negative view.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ErikBoyle

You seem to think that anyone who disagrees with you is being a grammar Nazi. But aren't you the one pushing your rhetoric on everyone else? You have no logical reasoning behind this other than a distaste for the sentence "Thank you for having come", which many people (there are many, if you bother to read more than the first few posts) find perfectly useful.

Whether we constitute a majority or not, I and others on this thread have made a grammatically bulletproof case for why we should accept the wording of this sentence as well as the more common wording. Descriptivism argues that we should embrace all the forms as equally acceptable and useful wherever they are used. If you really shunned the prescriptivist label as much as you claim to, you wouldn't have any inclination to argue that a less common phrasing is "useless". It obviously has currency among some segment of the population, and that should be good enough for a descriptivist.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vanw39

May I add to Erik Boyle's cogent and reasoned response: Every time someone uses the term "Nazi" to criticize something or someone they disagree with (see what I did there?), the probability that we (all people of conscience) will pass along our determination that the Shoah will never happen again is minutely diminished. Given the frequency with which the allusion occurs, those minute decrements are adding up. Please, donrua1, find another way to express your (incorrect, by the way) opinion.

And Mr. Boyle, have half a dozen lingots.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/donrua1

Many? Like the 325 who agree with me and the top comment, or the 16 grammar Nazis that can't let this thread die? Like that many? Because I don't think that word means what you think it means.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DaveHarris809825

Never argue with a fool.

People might not notice the difference.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/clawedinvader

I really want to give you an answer, but this is a family-friendly site and I can't bring myself to write what I'm thinking of!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kai_Guy

Native of the western US here. It's uncommon and a bit formal, but I have lived long enough to have heard it spoken. It's probably not the way I would speak, however because I'm not stuffy.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/llibllens

It would not be "stuffy" in a formal thank you note.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jyseltz

Only because formality goes so well with stuffiness.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

Formality often goes with courtesy.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/xainie02

"Thank you for having come despite the awful weather" Although this form is grammatically correct, you are probably likely to hear it only in a very formal or organised scenario in today's world


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/marianne.w4

How come mixing infinitive with present perfect


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vessiecakes

There are a lot of arguments about how this sounds "unnatural" (it doesn't to me; uncommon perhaps, but not unnatural) on this sentence and many others, but I think what everyone needs to remember is that the point of this style of learning is to present grammatical concepts and teach their uses without having to endure hours of repetitive conjugations, not necessarily to teach common phrases.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pannychis

i guess it needs a context. 4 days ago it struck me as odd but now i have come to accept it

"Thank you, for having come ... to hold this position"

"Beyond that, having come here ( on duolingo) helped us learn the basics of spanish"

"I thank you for having come to my humble abode"

and the best probably

"Thank you for having come ... so far with me. te amo"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nfassben

you can replace all of those with simply "coming"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BakinToast

But there's a different kind of nuance to it, as if it's already said and done (right?), that's my two cents, anyway. They are correct either way, just different kind of moods.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/awefulwaffle

Some common uses of the phrase:

  • Thank you for having come in such large numbers [to this event] or [to support us]
  • Thank you for having come to [specify the event]
  • I wish to thank you for having come to [specify country and event]
  • Thank you for having come out to vote in the elections
  • Thank you for having come to eat at [restaurant]. We are sorry that [you were unhappy with the service/the meal]

Examples with sources:

  • "I thank you for having gone away, and I thank you for having come back."

From p. 189 of the English translation of The Burgomaster's Family: Or, Weal and Woe in a Little World By E C W.van Walrée

  • "I wish you prosperity and thank you for having come here."

From p. 7 of the Appendix to the Journals of the House Representatives of New Zealand, 1886

  • "Thank you, Ernesto, thank you for having come into my life ..."

From The Illegal and the Refugee: An American Love Story, 2014, by Ian Tremblay

  • "I warmly thank you for having come to work with us. In the name of the Church, the Pope is counting a great deal upon you ..."

From The Holy Father's Addresses, 1983


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Talca

Brillante. ¡Gracias!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/whigamore1

Interesting examples above and below.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GregAngeli

It's 'having' come because in Spanish the word 'haber' should be translated. The sentence and lesson is present perfect.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ErikBoyle

And it should be pointed out that "having" in the English sentence is a gerund. Spanish doesn't distinguish between the gerund and infinitive form, so without context "haber" can be translated as "to have" or "having". Trying to put "to have" in this sentence doesn't make any sense, so "having" is the right translation.

Additionally, the gerund functions as a verb within its phrase, but the whole phrase acts as a noun phrase within a sentence. In this case, the phrase "having come" is treated as a noun phrase. Try replacing it with a different noun phrase and notice that it does make sense: "Thank you for your attendance," or "Thank you for the apples."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Felicia78752

THANK YOU! So much drama and this whole time I was just trying to figure out why it was "haber" and not has.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mae_mart

The sentence is perfectly fine. I think people have an issue with it just because it's a bit more formal than we're used to in everyday speech. That doesn't make it incorrect or even outdated. I've heard it used and have used it myself from time to time.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/eloiserealtor

just wondering why the use of "haber" instead of he, has, ha or han. Anyone?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ErikBoyle

There are a few layers to this answer.

In the equivalent English sentence, the word 'haber' translates to is 'having'. 'Having' is the gerund form of 'to have'. (Duolingo also uses the term 'gerund' to refer to the -ando/-iendo form of a verb in Spanish, which also translates as -ing, but that is the present participle and it is used differently.) The gerund in Spanish has the same form as the infinitive, 'haber', and the function of the gerund (in either language) is to lead a verb phrase that behaves like a noun phrase in the sentence.

Let's look at the gerund phrase: "having come". 'Having', as I said, is a gerund. 'Come' is actually not an infinitive, it's a past participle that happens to be irregular in English. By substituting in a different verb, this is more obvious. "Having written" or "having walked" are equivalent. The second verb is in past participle form because that is how the perfect aspect (of the present perfect, past perfect, etc. tenses) is formed: 'to have'/'haber' followed by a past participle. Think of the sentence "I have written a letter every day this week."/"Yo he escrito una carta cada día esta semana." Usually this construction is the main verb phrase of a sentence, but in "haber venido" it performs a different role.

Therefore, "Thank you for having come" is grammatically equivalent to "Thank you for the cookies" because the gerund phrase "having come" has the same function as the noun phrase "the cookies".

Now look at it in Spanish: "Gracias por haber venido" is equivalent to "Gracias por las galletas" for the same reason.

Now why isn't 'haber' conjugated? Well, how could it be? A gerund is used essentially because the verb isn't acting like a verb. You can't say "yo he", "tú has", "él ha" etc. because the sentence wouldn't make any sense with a subject and verb in that position. "Thank you for you have come"? That could be grammatical, but only if you change the meaning of 'for' to the archaic sense of 'because'. There are a few rules which dictate why 'haber' can't be conjugated here, but the simplest one is that in Spanish, a conjugated verb can never follow a preposition. Prepositions act on noun phrases, not verb phrases, so the verb phrase 'haber venido' has to act like a noun. Solution: gerund.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Leighfy7

In this entire mess of "natural/unnatural" English usage blahblahblah, THIS is what I was looking for. Thank you, ErikBoyle.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shirlgirl007

Yes, I had to slog through all those Usage comments, to get to the same question. Seems very few people even noticed the differentiation. So is this sentence actually in the Present Perfect, with the auxiliary forms of haber not evident?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PontusKihl

Thank you Erik for this explanation! It was the most valuable contribution in all the comments.

I was still left wondering though, if this excercise and sentence at all belongs in this section, as Gerundium seems to be something other than the tense we are trying to learn about here (the use of he, has, ha, hemos, han...+ verb /-ido, -ado...).

But I am learning all the same, thanks to people like you!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ErikBoyle

I think it belongs. This lesson is about learning to use haber in its auxiliary role, and this is one potential way it can be used. As I said, it is a different role than being used as the main verb, but it is one you could encounter, and there's not a much better place to put it in the tree.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

Would any native speaker ever say, "Thank you for having come?"

Well, there are these examples:

  • "I just wanted to take the opportunity to say Thank you again for the beautiful rose, but even more for having come in on your day off to do my surgery. – Letter from 'Heidi' to the Northwest Women’s Health Care Center

  • "Thank you so so much for having come to our home, we will never forget it and we recommend this company to absolutely anyone! Thank you again and we will never forget this experience!" -Mercedes, to Fairytale Events, LLC

  • "It would simply provide that there are consequences for having come illegally, for not having followed the legal rules, for not having waited in line...]" Re: Gang of Eight bill, 2013 .

  • "He said it gave him an entirely new feeling of confidence and he thanked me for having come to the [Potsdam] Conference and being present to help him in this way." Sec. of War Henry Stimson, July 21, 1945

  • "I went through security and became very emotional among the souvenirs, berating myself for having come through early when I could have spent another half an hour in the car with you. Mary McDonagh, who lives in the UK . . ., The Irish Times

  • "It's a pleasure to be here today and I thank all of you for having come and your interest in issues of equity in universities." -- Constance Backhouse, a university professor and university research chair at the University of Ottawa, CBC News.

  • "I hope I managed to make a good impression for you all and I thank you for having come at this last paragraph and thus take advantage to wish you all wise choices in any of your future decisions!" – Beatrice Manole, University of Essex

  • "I will wait a moment so that everyone has time to put on their headset. " Thank you for having come. "– Ms. Madeleine Dalphond-Guiral (Laval Centre, BQ) : Hearing, Parliament of Canada

  • "I think I should quickly say goodnight to our CBC audience, and then thank you for having come to the studio tonight." – Music from the Films": A CBC Broadcast

  • “Thank you for coming tonight, thank you for having come for 10 years and thank you for coming, hopefully, 10 more years,” he said. – San Diego Uptown News, Taking the stage for 10 years, April 26th, 2013


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/whigamore1

Yeah, well, I'm sure all these parliamentarians, journalists and politicians have no clue as to what a native English speaker would say. Right?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thrillwaters

Thank you for having come is definitely correct English usage, but just very uncommon and very formal. I've heard it in court rooms and churches.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/maxinedev

After having been a lawyer in California for 21 years, I remember being late to Court a few times. Not unfrequently, the judge would sarcastically say "thank you for having come today counsel". For that reason, I would never say it like that. I would just say "thank you for coming". The other way brings bad memories.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ElimGarak

The issue is that English doesn't value the present perfect tense, when we morph "having come" into "comming" it ceases to be present perfect. http://www.englishpage.com/verbpage/presentperfect.html this page shows it's proper use in English and it was new to me. We also tend to see it as have or has, not having. "He has come a long way from a freshman, but I'm so proud to watch him graduate college." "We have come for the package." "Thank you for having come over on such short notice, it means a lot to me that you are here."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ErikBoyle

I completely disagree. The present perfect is everywhere. I was in a Spanish class with a person from Italy and she once asked why we use the present perfect so often in English and when exactly it should be used.

The "having" intead of "have"/"has" is just because it's a gerund, which makes the verb phrase act like a noun phrase in the sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Chogas

'having come' is a little ackward. I think 'coming' is better translation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dr.Manhattan95

Agreed. Sounds too unnatural.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JamesBlask

Possibly, but we're here to learn Spanish, not English. In Spanish you can say either "Gracias por haber venido" or "Gracias por venir" (thankyou for coming). Both are perfectly fine and sound natural to native speakers.

Everyone needs to stop trying to translate word for word into English and worrying about how natural it sounds. Learn the words, learn how they fit together, and move on to the next lesson!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/s-partridge

If an unnatural English sentence appears, it makes finding the Spanish translation that much more difficult because we first have to decipher the incorrect English. The sentences we are given must make sense in both English and Spanish.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vanw39

"Thank you for having come" makes perfect sense in English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnnaDunste

Depending on the context it absolutely would. You wouldn't say it at the door greeting your guests, or even saying goodbye to them most likely , but the next day discussing their visit you sure might.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/s-partridge

Who do you know that would say that before "Thank you for coming"? The phrasing in the original sentence sentence is very uncommon, and makes it more complicated than it needs to be.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/grace780329

Hola vanw39! Gracias por haber venido o gracias por venir, son correctas las dos frases. Se le dice a un invitado cuando lo recibes y también cuando lo despides, si quieres. Greetings


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gina127652

Yes, it makes sense to me ...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/trashcat4

By Anna's logic it appears to fill a space as past perfect, though


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BethF1.

Not where I come from its not used there are a few things like that on here, I guess it is american english


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jessica169003

Exactly. Its not about word for word it's about understanding how to say it appropriately in English in order for us to translate the Spanish version. Both have to make sense.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

Responding to you here, because I cannot do so above.

Trust you? And you have conducted an in-depth analysis of the matter, exactly when? A survey, perhaps, "all over America?"

Yes, the expression is perhaps a little uncommon simply because the circumstances where it would be appropriate are somewhat infrequent. Perhaps you haven't been listening. But if you think it "doesn't make sense" or is somehow divorced from standard English, you are simply reflecting your own narrow experience in American society and haven't even considered the ample evidence to the contrary provided on this thread. Trust me – to return your catty little dose of sarcasm –, perhaps you shouldn't advertise it with such verve. ;-)

(By the way, that would be "it's".)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vanw39

But I don't trust you, for the common reason that you know not of what you speak.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

There is no incorrect English here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/s-partridge

Being grammatically correct doesn't necessarily equate to having a reasonable sentence. The translation provided here can be understood, but it takes more thought than simply saying "Thank you for coming", which is a far, far more common turn of phrase.

"having come" may be used in other contexts, but it is still rather uncommon in this one.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BethF1.

Really I would have never have thought that that was the answer as I have never jeard it used and so I got that wrong on a testout


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ErikRed1

It is only unnatural sounding because it may be uncommon in your circles, but there are plenty who will commonly use this phrasing in formal situations.

It is an important phrase for people learning english to be aware of.

I'm sure the english for spanish speakers have the exact same questions but in reverse.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mazdee

Fortunately, Duo accepts "thanks for coming" as a translation, as that is common and correct in English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

I'm sorry if you think it is uncommon. It is not. But let;s just agree that it's uncommon in your experience.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jessica169003

Its uncommon all over America trust me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ross_Kramer

I think Chogar got the point - As I have understood him he meant the translation itself is awkward, not the Spanish sentence. And totally agree with him that in English "for having come" sounds very awkward. By saying that, I just want to accentuate that those who contributed have just to correct themselves. As to Spanish, nobody pretends to change the rules of that language


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vanw39

The translation "Thank you for having come" sounds awkward only to those who didn't have the opportunity to learn the use of present perfect tense.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ErikBoyle

@Jessica169003 No, that's a straw man argument. Do you think talk to is awkward? Probably not. So does that mean that you always say talk to instead of speak to? Not necessarily. Two constructions can exist in equilibrium, both correct and each used some of the time. That's how language works.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

@Ross_Kramer: By whose edict is it that "in English all turns of speech must look 'English like,' or that "Duolingo is all about contemporary language learning?" And who is to set the bar for that criteria?

You, simply because you have never heard anyone utter a perfectly normal English sentence like this? You see, even if you haven't heard it, I have heard it throughout my life as have others on this thread. It is not "dead language."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ross_Kramer

I didn't not say that it is awkward in Spanish. However, I have never heard anyone in my life saying in English "Thank you for having come". Why to use the "dead language" in real life? Duolingo is all about contemporary language learning. My point is that in English all turns of speech must look "English like".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jessica169003

So you always say thank you for having come then? Thats what you are saying


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EntourageEffect

I feel as though it's more effective having both translations be as natural and correct as possible. And actually we are kind of here to learn English because if you don't have a firm grasp of English you won't be able to transate effectively. Duo has taught me a lot about Spanish as well as English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gina127652

I think also those who speak British English may actually phrase it this way ...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BethF1.

No we don't I was thinking it was the americans because on spanish duolingo it is american english, maybe the Australians??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/curlyhart

Definitely not us Aussies. Everyone commenting here is saying that it sounds awkward, to me it seems just wrong. We didn't learn grammar in school though.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tachpro92

I agree, to say this or that doesn't sound right in english is a moot point....because.....you wouldn't say that in english. Most of what you are learning would not sound right in english. "Me duele la cabeza".....I wouldn't say .."to me hurts the head" in english either, but thats how you say it in SPANISH.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bdbarber

But the point is that you would not translate that as " to me hurts the head"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vanw39

I quite agree, tachpro92. Apparently some come to DL to learn Spanish but reject how some things are said in Spanish. Reminds me of people who want to know something but complain about having to learn it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dee811953

Esto es buen consejo.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AwezomePozzum

I just don't see how we're supposed to get that answer :/


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/moreamore

That's exactly what I'm trying to do; accept the language for what it is instead of making sense of it through an English filter. But boy is it hard


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hamid306611

Yes and No. It is good to learn a language carefully but not through errors. besides, Duolingo has been based on bilingual teaching ever since the beginning and your correct translation into english is part of your learning spanish. Having come is simply incorrect. It is correct to understand and feel the mechjanism of spanish grammar, but incorrect to expect the same thing to happen in english.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

"Having come" is NOT incorrect.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidMoore622957

There is a difference between saying "coming" and "having come." The two are not interchangeable, in a general sense, nor is one more grammatically correct than the other. It is clear from the Spanish that the speaker/writer is using the perfect aspect (i.e., using the helper verb "have" - ha). An accurate translation, in my opinion, should maintain that aspect. If you omit "having," you are indeed changing the structure and meaning of the original sentence.

Most of us, most of the time, don't pay attention to such nuances when speaking or writing. That doesn't make such differences irrelevant. If you truly want Duo to encourage proper Spanish and English usage, you should not be so quick to discard these language distinctions.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vanw39

Thank you for having made such a cogent and calm explanation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidMoore622957

De nada, Kid Shelleen!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

@ mazdee: "Thanks for coming" may be an acceptable, loose translation, but if Duo agrees that it is a good translation, that is to say, an accurate translation, then Duo is wrong. As David Moore points out, there is a nuanced difference between the two, and it exists in both languages. After all, if you want to say "Thanks for coming" there is "Gracias por venir." The "languages are different" argument just doesn't apply here.

Secondly, if you find the thread is tiresome, please feel free to unfollow the discussion, but recognize that it may not be tiresome to those new to the exercise and compelled to express their outrage at a time-honored and perfectly legitimate English expression – one which, by the way, will have no one laughing at you who matters.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mazdee

This discussion has gotten tiresome. Duo agrees that "thanks for coming" is a good translation, because these 2 languages have many differences in usage. If you want an exact translation from Spanish to English, just use Google! It won't be good English, but it will get the point across, even if people laugh at you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DodoJarmann

Tienes razon. Aquí es un lingot para ti.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tlokken

You have to when dunking present Spanish, and you choose english words.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BethF1.

I have never heard having come before so I spent a couple minutes just staring at it before deciding I could not find it, i just hope the spanish is more correct


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

More correct? More correct than what? The English? It just so happens that the given English translation is perfectly correct, and perfectly correct in any dialect of English – British, Canadian (not to leave them out), American or Australian, [etc., etc.]

If you take the time to actually read through this (admittedly long) thread, you'll find several posts explaining the grammatical basis for the phrase and several documented examples of its use. If you haven't heard it, do remember that the language has (at least) formal and informal registers where usage differs.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gina127652

Yes, it's still correct in formal English, and yes, most English speaking people speak informally, especially the younger generation. I learnt English in the seventies in a British colonial country so I've seen and also used this phrase in formal situation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vanw39

But but but...you forgot New Zealand. And Ireland. And South Africa. And Texas.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ArthurThom15

It is very bad grammer


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/whigamore1

Quite the opposite, Arthur. It is very good grammar.

It is how we speak in formal situations. Or do you suppose the people in these examples don't speak proper Englsh? See => https://www.duolingo.com/comment/104059$from_email=comment_id=24510925

(Search "Would any native speaker" if the link doesn't work.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vanw39

No, it is correct grammar (or usage, if you prefer), in both Spanish and English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ArthurThom15

You here to learn both. That is not good grammar.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

It is perfectly good grammar, most often used in formal settings. There IS a difference between not often heard and "poor grammar. (like "You here to learn both").. But if you think it is not good grammar, please provide a source or authority that supports your opinion.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/fritssg

I have to agree with mangledmatt. Present prefect is used for past actions that still affect the present. Therefore, 'thank you for having come' means that the people have already left but are thanked nonetheless in the present.

I would use 'thank you for coming' when people are still there, either at arrival or when they are about to leave.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/james.ray1

"Thank you for having come" doesn't necessarily mean that they have come and gone, it just means that they have already come. "Thank you for coming" and "Thank you for having come" mean the same thing in my understanding, and the former is a more natural expression. (Generally, if two meanings mean the same thing, the more concise expression is preferred.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

Actually, no, they don't mean exactly the same thing. Although there is some overlap, there is a nuance to the present perfective version that is not conveyed by the simple past tense (or, as here, a gerund, which has no tense at all).

To oversimply: consider the possible implication of a sentence like (simple past), "He worked all his life to improve the condition of his people," and compare it to "He has worked all his life to improve the condition of his people." ( I leave you and others to mull on the implication of the former.)

:You are correct about one thing, though: generally, if two forms mean almost the same thing, the "more concise" expression is preferred — by those who don't know the difference. Overtime, the more nuanced language likely does fall into relative disuse, and when it has begun to sound "weird" to a following generation or two, people begin to say things like "No native speaker of ... would ever say that!" And so a language begins to lose just a bit of its ability to express things in fine gradations of meaning.

Is that good for the language? Be the judge, but in three years on Duolingo, I have been (and still am) astonished at the number of people who apparently think so.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnnaDunste

The English language has been losing a lot of nuances in the general population in recent generations. Double plus ungood.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

Yes. Double plus ungood.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/james.ray1

Thanks for the grammar lesson. I agree that it it is useful to be able to convey the intended meaning. Present perfective tense is an action that started in the past and has continued to be performed through to the present (without interruption). Another example is: it has been raining today. Simple past tense is an action that began and finished in the past. For example, it rained today.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

Ah, I suppose you meant, "Thanks for the response to my grammar lesson:;" but that's alright.

One small point, though: present perfect tense describes an action that started in the past and which continues to be performed – or the effects of which continue – through to the present. But while "It rained today"implies the rain has ceased, and "It has been raining today" suggests it is STILL raining, that distinction really doesn't apply to the choices here. "Thank you for having come" introduces a present perfect aspect, but "Thank you for coming" is neither PP nor simple past: it has no tense at all. ;-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/maihto714

Mhgvmmnxbifungudihufongursjgrsnfiughewihgbsr8uhgiysrbiyrwjruhghrMhgvmmnxbifungudihufongursjgrsnfiughewihgbsr8ubgiysrbiyrwj 743t8trw65rwyw54ue54 j fkjg


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/skepticalways

Tejano, you are absolutely correct, and the person above who said it does not mean the people have already left is correct, as well. They merely already had arrived, probably had a valet park their car, a doorman take their coats (in cold weather), and been shown to the receiving line before entering the ballroom. So they "have come" to the big soiree, an elegant nighttime party, at which they will dine and dance for hours in formalwear. (Think DIPLOMATS!) These kinds of things still happen today, just "way above my pay grade"! ;-)

It would be commonly said in more formal and polite society. I was told when first introduced to Spanish that Hispanic culture was very polite, so to be sure to say "please" and "thank you" so as not to be considered rude. (One can be polite and casual, but formal politeness should at least be known, even if not used often - might help on a job interview one day.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Khristafer

A language doesn't lose its ability to to express things in "fine gradations of meanings". But rather, it expresses them in other ways. Relatedly, the previous comment said that in his understanding, the meanings were the same-- which can be true. Meaning is always a negotiation within communication.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vanw39

I'm inclined to think that languages don't have the ability to express things in fine gradations of meaning, but rather people have (or don't) the inclination to express things in fine gradations of meaning. If enough people find it easier to forego nuance, the structures or words associated with nuance fall out of common use and eventually are considered awkward or unnatural.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Youmeanthatguy

That may be, but no native English speaker speaks this way. It's like ending a sentence with a preposition. Grammatically incorrect, but it can be totally acceptable to native speakers of English.

I think eschewing the way English speakers speak their language day to day in favor of being grammatically correct defeats the purpose of learning a foreign language. I doubt anyone is here because they just enjoy the grammar and have no intention of speaking this language with another person.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Supra__

Actually, "Thank you for having come" is indeed grammatically correct. It is the present perfect in English. Just because it is unnatural for YOU to say, doesn't mean it is unnatural for OTHERS to say. It's the same form as saying "I have seen that movie" or "I have met him before". So why is this sentence any different? It's not.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kelvin803946

Those sentences all mean the same thing without having used have until we are having to have a fit.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

"Those sentences all mean the same thing..."

So. You are someone who doesn't understand the difference. But do you understand the difference between present perfect tense and simple past tense? Do you think "He has lived here all his life" means exactly the same thing as "He lived here all his life"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/espanola_amanda

A good number of us enjoy good grammar as well as using said good grammar in conversation. I'm a native speaker of English. In my experience, this would be a perfectly natural thing to say. Perhaps in your experience, you are not used to hearing this phrase, which is fine. But there's no reason to make sweeping generalizations like "no native English speaker speaks this way". The trouble with generalizations is that they are always wrong in at least one case.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

Sorry, if you think "no native English speaker" would speak this way, you would be wrong: you have absolutely no way of knowing such a thing based on personal observations from a provincial corner of an English-speaking world of roughly 1 billion people.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Talca

Thank you for having said this. (Same usage, different verb!) 298 comments and Duolingo has not locked down this discussion. Awesome.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/theRealRabbit

It's a myth that you can't end English with a preposition. Look it up. Or, just realize that you don't have to.

(See what I did there?)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vanw39

Yes, you ended sentences with "up," which is half of the English partitive verb "look up," and "to," which is half of an infinitive with the implied "look it up." Neither is a preposition.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

Exactly. ;-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

I see what you think you did there, but you may have been too clever by half. The phrase "you don't have to" actually refers back an antecedent of a sort, your admonition to "look it up." Not sure (and don't care to look it up) but that "to" at the end of "don't have to" may not exactly qualify as a preposition.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/billyyo

I am an educated native English speaker. To say that "no native English speaker speaks this way" is incorrect and is not supported by anything but your opinion. It may show a lack of experience in native English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BethF1.

Also we have irregular stuff and exeptions all over the place in english as well as how languages naturally change over time even very correct english today is very different to correct tudor or Shakespearean English


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BritaJ

I thought the whole purpose of this lesson is to learn the Present Perfect tense. There are lots of times when native English speakers would use the past tense interchangeably with the present perfect. That doesn't mean we shouldn't take the opportunity to learn this tense properly, even if the phrase is not one that is used very often.

You might say "Elvis left the building", but don't tell me that it is the same as the famous "Elvis has left the building".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mathchoo

Hear! Hear!

Too many people forget that they are here to learn.
In this case the present perfect tense.

Natural sounding sentences have always taken a distant second place. You would think someone this far into the tree would be used to awkward sentences by now.

(I actually do not think this sentence is awkward, just that there is no reason to complain if it was.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mangledmatt

I think this sentence is fine. If a party happened last week and you wanted to thank them for coming, this is how you would say it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/blooperboy

I think in that situation "Thanks for coming to the party last week" is more common


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JessicaYu4

the sentence is fine in spanish, but this is directly translated and totally unnatural in english. "thank you for coming" is what it should be properly translated to or else you'll receive odd looks


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/llibllens

Come on it's not "totally unnatural". As was stated above it would be very appropriate in speaking of last weeks party. (Please people, fewer misleading broad brush judgements)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ErikRed1

It is still unnatural. No one would say that for last weeks party. They would say 'thanks for coming last week' or 'thanks for having been there' or even 'thanks that you came last week'.

At least in america, if you say for having come, people will understand, but will consider it an odd way to say it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/espanola_amanda

I disagree with those who think it's unnatural. It depends on the vernacular of the people you usually talk to, but I would not think anything strange about someone saying "Thanks for having come to my party last week".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ErikBoyle

Don't speak for everyone who speaks English, or even everyone in America. I don't think it's unnatural, and neither do many of the people I know. That already invalidates your premise.

Secondly, you're willing to use exactly the same construction as this sentence with your example "Thanks for having been there," but you still regard "having come" as unnatural? There's no basis for saying that other than your personal taste.

And thirdly, you claim that "Thanks for having been there" or "Thanks that you came last week" are better options. (I don't think the second one is even grammatical) I have to dispute this, because according to Google, no one ever says those. "Thank you for having come", while not common, is used, which also invalidates that claim.

https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=thanks+for+having+been+there%2Cthanks+that+you+came%2Cthank+you+for+having+come

And if you want to downvote me, I think I at least deserve an explanation of why. All I've done is point out the statistical untruths and logical contradictions in a problematic argument.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bermygreen

But if you're in England, where English is from, its fine. I say it myself. Thanks for coming is merely an abbreviated version.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/linburnlane

Doesn't "Thanks for having been there" follow the same grammatical line as "Thanks for having come"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vanw39

You're quite right. I'm gobsmacked by people who profess to be so knowledgeable about all forms of spoken English that they can with assurance declare something "totally unnatural."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Talca

I don't think Duolingo has many sentences with the infinitive + participle, as is used here. More examples would be helpful to reinforce the Spanish grammar lesson here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/valencys

I dont know if I'd say totally unnatural, I feel like it'd be said more in old english though


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/blue.skies

Agreed, the sentence is perfectly fine. Maybe not something a teenager would say, but absolutely correct and acceptable.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/thefluent1

Yes this sentence is totally fine in english its just extremely formal sounding and sounds like something that high society type people would say


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlanHill00

Agreed, I recall having said something similar not long ago. "I appreciate them having come, but..." In most cases I'd use a less correct formulation like, "I appreciate their coming" but that just doesn't mean the same thing here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ErikBoyle

"I appreciate their coming" is actually more correct grammatically because gerunds should always take possessive determiners, not object pronouns. "Them coming" is incorrect despite being incredibly widespread, and I struggle to say "their coming" even though I know it's correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/skepticalways

Eric, you are correct about using a possessive pronoun with a gerund, a verb used as a noun. (The "action" is the object of the preposition in your example, with a defining pronoun modifier, "their.")

But talking "about their coming" is a gerund that could be set in the future, different from about their having come." If talking directly to them, "Thank you for (your) having come tonight," the pronoun is both possessive and "understood" (not there), and the person has come, and is still present.

Or, after the party, the host might say, "I don't know what happened to Joe Brown; he had been coming (not a gerund in English, but a past continuing verb) to our party six years in a row, until last night."

Example of future: "Honey, I'm not sure about their coming (gerund) to the party tomorrow, when we know that the Smiths are coming -- they hate each other.!"

Hope some of that helps show there are reasons that show nuances of meaning, although we don't use all of them casually. At a "kegger," guys might just say, "Hey! Glad ya came!"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ahmeda111

Its more natural in the third person. Also more natural if its in a larger sentence. But by itself? Its completely awkward.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/athacliath

Especially in England.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BezJones

In England it's not common use in this context but maybe another one. Ie. watching match of the day (football highlights show) "After having come second in the championship last season, newly promoted Watford were looking to... "


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Limbo63

This is actually a really strong example of how you would hear 'having come' in spoken English and much more common than the above.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Youmeanthatguy

I'm not a teenager and I wouldn't say that. I wouldn't say it because it sounds weird to me. Because no one walks around trying to make sure that they speak with perfect grammar. Even people who correct grammar for a living don't do that. We speak in a way that feels natural. We don't nitpick rules when we speak.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/blue.skies

I wasn't implying that anyone above 18 would absolutely speak that way (though conversely, I do have my doubts that anyone younger would be likely to), nor was I demeaning anyone who doesn't. You seem offended for some reason, although we agree. I have no idea if this phrase is technically grammatically correct, but I do know that I've heard it many times, and in my experience it's been seen as an acceptable way to speak. I was just offering that piece of information since this debate has been about whether or not people actually say this...and they do. Because I've heard them, and I've said it myself.

I'm not sure what we're arguing about...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SusannaEDavis420

I agree with you, Blue_skies. I've heard, read and said this tense many times in English. It's perfectly fine and can help get a message across better in some situations. I'm concerned that certain tenses may be falling out of general usage. That's sort of frightening!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cboehm42

Its grammatically correct as is, but it's antiquated and rarely used anymore


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Talca

Probably because no one has receiving lines at weddings or funerals anymore. In all seriousness, this phrase is not antiquated. When you arrive at a job interview, someone may say, "Thank you for having come today."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ignant

"Thank you for coming" SOUNDS LIKE a better translation to a lot of native english speakers, but it is not a translation of what is on the screen. Are we here to translate the words, or to change them into a sentence that we would prefer to say?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/s-partridge

We're here to translate and understand the meaning of the words. Would you prefer that "gustar" were translated as "to like" or "to be pleasing"? "Me gusta" is understood as meaning "I like it", but a literal translation would be closer to "It is pleasing to me," or "it pleases me".

So, which sounds like a better translation to you? The literal one, or the one that conveys the intended meaning?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

Actually, your example is a distinction without a difference. They both convey the same intended meaning. From the Studyspanish.com discussion of gustar::

"The first thing you need to notice is that both versions really mean the same thing. They are merely different expressions of the same idea"

But in this case, in terms of learning Spanish – and that is the point of these exercises even if DL is inconsistent about it – the one you call "the literal one" is probably the better choice. Why? Because thinking in that way helps to embrace the Spanish perspective with verbs like gustar, fascinar, interesarand others. Translations in the Immersion section are a different matter.

But in any case, the relationship between "to like" or "to be pleasing" is not really analogous to that between "coming " and "having come," which carry subtly different meanings.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/s-partridge

Perhaps you should take your own quote into consideration: "The first thing you need to notice is that both versions really mean the same thing. They are merely different expressions of the same idea."

"Having come", by itself, is different from "coming". But in this specific instance the two expressions are exactly synonymous. You are simply arguing for your version because it's the one you use.

But if there is such a difference, as you have claimed, please enlighten us. You have made this claim several times but not provided any examples or explanations to back it up. Simply saying "It's different" is not good enough.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ErikBoyle

I would direct you to one of the several posts in this discussion, including many of mine, which explain the differences between coming and having come. The claim has been made very clearly.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NYY24

Awkward, but not any less correct. Both are accepted and correct translations.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Youmeanthatguy

Yes, but they don't accept "Thank you for coming" even though that's what most people would say. That's the issue.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/malkeynz

There'd be no need for "haber" in that case, it would just be "gracias por venir". Present perfect in Spanish kinda expects you'll use present perfect in English.

Though judging by other people's comments this may now be accepted anyway.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Clari64

Thank you for coming accepted 3/12/15 ☺


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vanw39

More's the pity. (Although no native English speaker would say that.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Telisa7

Perhaps it sounds awkward but it is proper English. Though not as common, there are those of us who use it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cheryl1

Thanks for coming is accepted as well. The translations that DL chooses to display as correct can and do vary. Next time you may see your preferred answer.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Anthea831295

It is having come. This is the translation. However the spanish like to use this tense much more than we use it in english, thats what you need to know. They use this tense when it is past but very recently in the past.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Craig877964

Hello Chogas: As of 1/1/2018 I have read all 444 comments to date. I think most people that complain that the sentence is awkward or "no one ever says this in the history of the world etc", are totally missing the point. This is a lesson on usage of the Present Perfect. "Thank you for coming" is NOT Present Perfect. "Thank you for having come" IS Present Perfect. I have used and will continue to use "Thank you for having come" and you will also if you truly want to learn and understand the lesson on Present Perfect. I am here to learn Spanish. As I do, Duolingo is helping me with correct English. Thank you for having come to this discussion thread. Please try the veal. Oh... and actually reading the thread before posting would be super helpful to others who are trying to help us. This would give one some time to consider what has already been answered repeatedly, and also lessen the burnout factor of those who are trying to help us. "Gracias por haber venido. "


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vanw39

Gracias por haber dicho eso.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pianoician

I think putting an "hoy" at the end would make the sentence sound more natural.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SFranks18

Awkward or not, eso es que ella dijo. (Did I say that right?)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Grant30

Megadittos to that.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheReal_Nadia

I got this right but when I saw the "other translation" as I clicked continue it made me think it sounds wierd, "thank you for having come". Not to mention the people on here that will make nasty comments on this one.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JessicaSol333700

Agree thats why I missed it. Having come sounds weird to me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vanw39

But that's the correct translation of the Spanish, and it's a perfectly legitimate and understandable English sentence. It only sounds weird if you haven't heard many people using the present perfect tense.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shar_Maine

I agree. Thank you for coming should be accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ArthurThom15

It should read, thank you for coming. Not thank you for having come.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

Nonsense. "Thank you for having come" is exactly how it should read.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MissJayNo

You are right, sounds unnatural. I wrote 'Thanks for coming' and it was accepted, tho.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bilbybog

As a native English speaker, I have never heard 'thank you for having come'. It is theoretically possible, sociolinguistically impossible. It is not an acceptable answer. Language belongs to real people, not obscure fancy.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

It is an entirely acceptable answer and you cannot speak for ALL "real people."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Talca

I am giving you a ligot from a real person.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tessbee

Same as Talca here, I'm giving you some lingots from a real person :). In fact, I gave you, and some others who are on the same side of the argument, lingots in all your and their posts. Heck, let me scroll back up ang give you ten more! Thanks for your posts!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lbc2world

I think that Spanish conjugations sometimes bury more meaning in sentences than English speakers require in day to day use, so sometimes the translations seem clumsy because of this. All the same, we need to recognize these nuances as we learn Spanish, so Duolingo gives them to us without dumbing them down to be pretty.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vanw39

The number of real people, real native-English-speaking people who not only would but in fact do say this, apparently would stagger your imagination.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuperSammyC

err, no. No one would say that.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vanw39

Someone who is familiar with the English language would.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SD-77

What Chogas means is "thank you for coming" would be better than "thank you for having come". I think what you thought was that he/she was saying "thank you for having coming", which is obviously wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hanaru

In some sentence is acceptable translation for VENIR both arrive and come , not in this case, is there any difference in meaning?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SusannaEDavis420

Do we use the infinitive "haber" because it is after "por"? It seems like I have a vague memory from years ago when I took Spanish that you always use the infinitive after "por", but I can't remember for sure or why. Would someone explain this?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Elagui

http://www.studyspanish.com/lessons/porpara.htm
"Gracias por" is just how you say "Thank you for".
According to a reference grammar of Spanish By R. E. Batchelor, Miguel Ángel San José, certain verbs lead logically to the use of the perfect infinitive - among them: Gracias por haber venido. Which is translated as: Thanks for coming.
I think the problem lies is that we're being tested in a concept that wasn't clearly explained and we are coming from a culture that has a different logic to how we choose which words when and don't understand the Spanish logic of why the infinitive is supposed to be there. (section 13.1.2 Page 108)
It would be a little redundant to say: Gracias por has venido. or Gracias por ha venido because they would mean: Thank you for you have coming. In this case - it'll be added to my exceptions to the rule section - to always be aware of the logical infinitive here on out.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SusannaEDavis420

¡Gracias por su explicación! I've been relying more on the podcasts of "Coffee Break Spanish" for learning grammar and conversational skills. We haven't covered this subject yet. I use Duolingo mostly for practice. It's difficult to learn grammar here, but kind people like you really help!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/newmilwaukeee

can you say "gracias por venir?" and if so, which is more common?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JamesBlask

In all of these hundreds of comments, this is what I want to know! Whether it sounds natural or not in English really doesn't matter, since we're here to learn SPANISH! Would your typical Spanish speaker be more inclined to say this?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chronosparks

Relax people. Technically the sentence is correct, but it's just extremely formal and rare. I would never say it and most people I know don't talk like that.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rooseveltnut2

Truly!! I can't believe this thread is just going on and on. I'm outta here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mujer134

Why is “haber”, an infinitive form, translated as “having”. Can someone explain the concept? I don’t remember seeing this before.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/malkeynz

Infinitives in Spanish can be used in some contexts where we would use the English gerund, so it gets translated appropriately.

So depending on context, "comer" could be translated as one of:

  • "to eat"
  • "eating"
  • "eat"

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mujer134

Thank you! Context would be everything I guess.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/imdwightbrah

Can someone please give a lowdown for "haber"? Is it like "have" in english and conjugate it as such? Is there only one conjugation: he, has, ha, hemos, han?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Talca

1) Generally, it is used as an auxiliary verb. 2) It exists in all tenses and in all three moods (indicative, subjunctive and imperative). 3) It does a funky backstroke in the third person single present tense and morphs into hay when used impersonally. For example: Hay un gato en la silla. (There's a cat on the chair.) You have probably seen that verb hay everywhere and not recognized it as a conjugation of HABER. 4) yes, it is used like the English have.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/namayani

DL now accepts "thank you for coming" woot!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vanw39

Shoot! (An expletive, not a verb; I'm not proposing violence, just disappointment.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pannychis

isn't there a word for coming?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lisagnipura

Hola Pannychis: In Spanish the infinitive is used in place of the English gerund; therefore, coming would be "venir".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Supra__

If you wanted to say "I am coming" you would use the gerund which would be "Estoy viniendo."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ErikBoyle

No. That is not a gerund. This is a present participle used to create the present (tense) progressive (aspect). Gerunds are a non-finite verb form, which means they aren't really part of any tense and they don't take subjects. Gerunds are used to form verb phrases that act as noun phrases. To check if a -ing verb is a gerund, replace the verb phrase with a noun and see if it makes sense. You can't do that here.

To make it more complicated, there are also verbal nouns, which can end in -ing but act completely like nouns and not at all like verbs.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Talca

Few people understand English grammar as clearer as you do. Thank you for having come to this commentary page.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/geneven

Here's another instance that makes its typical usage clearer: "We really needed people at that political rally we held yesterday. Thank you for having come!" The reason one uses it instead of saying "thanks for coming" is that it emphasizes action in the past, not current action.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EduardoJdCIII

Just because this isn't used often does not mean it's incorrect. "Thank you for having come" is perfectly fine. I think it's even more suitable for bedtime talk.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Farhi

Thank for coming! is accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vanw39

More's the pity.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Justin122243

This sentence is perfectly acceptable and herd quite often in high society and among those with impeccable English. Just because English is your native language doesn't mean you've come across everything there is to come across, Especially if you're a first generation native English speaker. They looked for a translation and that was the closest translation that fit. Do a bit of research before you spit out opinions.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HephaestusX

People tend to forget THIS IS LITERALLY ITS OWN LANGUAGE, it's not coded english or anything, these trabslation are telling you at the best ability how its literally said IN ENGLISH. At some point you will have to stop thinking in english and ..."Learn" the culture of spanish, become it ...Instead of being too literally and critical all the time..This is just advice ^_^.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JudyK.Pearlstein

Actually, I would say it and probably have. I'm 73 so it might be because I'm older. However, it really doesn't matter if we don't say it in English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/quemos

Lots of comments, uhh! I am not native English speaker. So that i can't judge you guys. What i can say is that Duo's translations give me the idea about the meaning of Spanish and what it implies. Duo helps me to learn Spanish and Comments make my English improve. Thanks for your all contributions


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnnaDunste

Is there some way to suggest this discussion to be locked? This topic has been done and redone so many times, we really don't need three times a week one more person to come say "it's wrong!" without being bothered to actually read the conversation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shirlgirl007

Anna, I concur, that is a great suggestion. I am going to put it to the managers, the other box... There is another one in French, that I have in mind also...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Garrett46357

Quite the discussion with having come and coming, having come is fine here in Montana. My question after this whole read though is is venido in the present perfect tense translate to came. Como se dice - He came to my party?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/amyhengst

Thank you for being the first person who uses this phrase in english to actually say where they are from!

So many people have commented, but I was left wondering where "having come" might be a phrase that is in common use. I'm from california and it sounds odd to me. But English is spoken in so many places, so I couldn't guess whether British, Scottish, Welsh, African or Aussie speakers might use this phrase -- or even other States! Truly we share an amazing language, but in many small ways we use it differently :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/amyhengst

To answer your question, "He came..." would be a simple past tense phrase. The simple third person singular past tense for venir would be "vino"-- I believe it would be, "el vino a mi fiesta" ... http://www.spanishdict.com/conjugate/(venir)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shawn637253

Hold a party where everyone brings something. The tell the guy who brungs the sour cream. Thank you for having come.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Talca

Especially if you baked a dozen Idaho potatoes and have run out of butter.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ignant

It is far more probable that YOU have a very poor understanding of spanish, and of the phrase "translate the following into english". It does not say "re-arrange the translation of these spanish words into a phrase that YOU would use when speaking with your friends". Just try to do what it asks you to do. If you get it wrong, don't blame your phone or your thumbs, just read the CORRECT answer and learn "sumpn". No-one is trying to trick you or lie to you, not even the demon that is duolingo.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ignant

I wrote this comment in reply to Nathanlanza, about 30 posts below. I don't know why it was put up here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vicki.kura

Actually duolingo rearranges the words in the translation quite often. We have to to make sense. It is not a word for word translation all of the time. Example: Look at the little dog. The words WILL be rearranged and need to be or it would be odd to say.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EdwardBail2

If you are talking to someone why isnt it "Gracias por has venido"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ErikBoyle

For the same reason you wouldn't say "Thank you for you have come," in English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/catherine.539406

I should have thought of this before I got this far, but am I learning European or South American Spanish?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ErikBoyle

Latin American, predominantly.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdabell

If anything, 'coming' is incorrect (not present participle in the sentence), and 'having come', which is perfect English, is better. When you think about it, 'coming' is still going on and cannot properly be used to someone present, 'having come', as it were. A fine distinction, perhaps?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ErikBoyle

Well, not quite. Coming has two uses in English: the present participle and the gerund. You're describing the present participle, but the gerund is used like a noun to describe someone's state of being there—your coming = your attendance. It's not the best translation for this sentence, but it is grammatically correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RobertTudo2

As I understand it, the way duo works is that native speakers correct the errors in the use of their own language while they are learning another, and this assists those users learning their own language. Whilst this sentance will get the meaning across in English, and is perfectly correct and logical, it would sound very strange to a native speaker. The common usage would be 'thank you for coming', which is not logical, as the tense is 'wrong', but that's English for you!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Esn024

What is the difference between "gracias POR" and "gracias PARA"? When would you use one or the other?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/whigamore1

Well, that;s a bit of a dilemma for everyone and there are tons of sites on the net addressing the question of "por vs. para." Here's one that has some rules for "por," and by deduction, it should help with "para"

https://studyspanish.com/grammar/lessons/porpara

But the first rule listed, you'll notice, is:

Rule: to express gratitude or apology

Model: Gracias por la ayuda. (Thanks for the help.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RonaldPrid

For coming is more correct than for having come.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

No, really, it is not.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/areyounuts.

Thank you for having come, is more like old English. Like the aristocrats of Merry Old England. In that context, it would be perfectamente logico. In our lazy modern day English filled with slang words and phrases it does seem a bit awkward, but I have no problem with that.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Taghrid153

is" gracias por viniendo" correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/grace780329

Hola Taghrid153! hablo Español y lo correcto es decir: "Gracias por haber venido" Ej: Recibes a un invitado a tu casa y le dices esta frase. También se la puedes decir al despedirse " Gracias por haber venido" (a mi casa, a visitarme,etc) The sentence "gracias por viniendo" it is like "I Tarzan" . Greetings


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/brandonchavis

I do agree this English translation needs to be revised. It "makes sense" according to the rules of the language, but it's utterly confusing and I don't think that anyone would use this naturally in spoken or written English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vanw39

It's confusing primarily to those who haven't yet learned what proper usage sounds like, which may be due to the lack of proper usage among the people they are most likely to encounter in their daily life.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/4R91031C3R70

We usually say "Thanks for having came" but still we usually don't say that, we say "Thanks for coming!"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vanw39

I'm not sure I understand what you understand you think you said.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

Hello James, I think perhaps you have one too many instances of "usually" 'in there; but, I'm also wondering: "Who are the "we" you're talking about? ;-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EllieLemke

Why can't it be "Thank you for having called" (me on the phone)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ErikRed1

That makes absolutely no sense, where did you even get that idea?

"Gracias para me haber llamado" I think would mean what thou suggesteth


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

"Gracias por habeme llamado" is, I think, what you want there; but you are right;: "venido" has nothing to do with "called."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Victorcarrera0

My understanding of the Spanish present perfect tense is that it is formed by using the conjugated present tense of the auxiliary verb “haber” with the past participle of the main verb. Can anyone explain why the infinitive "haber" is used here and not conjugated.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Maisie56118

Bit of a dodgy translation into english


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

It is a perfect translation into a time-honored English phrase especially well-suited to formal meetings and other circumstances. I suppose if you haven't heard it , you can be forgiven for thinking it unusual. But It is not "dodgy."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Susan_Skelly

This is terribly formal. We just say "Thank you for coming". I mean unless you're a head of state.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidMoore622957

It has nothing to do with formality. It's about making use of the perfect aspect or not. If the time frame of reference for "coming" is unimportant, then you don't need that aspect and you can just say "coming."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bryan960143

What sort of terrible english is that


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/whigamore1

It is not "terrible english" at all; it is perfectly proper English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Victoria765738

Why not 'Gracias por has venido' or 'Gracias por ha venido'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

Because the format (the syntax) for thanking someone for an action is "Gracias por" + the infinitive for the action.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cogbon

Eso es lo dijo a ella ;-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YoSoyColson

In spanish, they would just say "Eso dijo ella" :P


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cogbon

Nice...good to know, thanks


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/billy8195

Why is it your goal, Duolingo, to use stupid sounding example sentences? I went out on a limb and tried "Thank you for coming" and it worked... WHO SAYS "Thank you for having come"???


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

WHO SAYS "Thank you for having come"???

People whose intention is to convey the subtle and accurate distinction between the present perfect tense (and what it implies in certain situations) and a simple reference to an action and what it implies in other situations ("Thank you for coming" has no tense and could be referring to a past, present, or even future action.).

Duolingo's goal is to give us an opportunity to learn something about Spanish and for some, it appears – those who think certain example sentences are stupid – an opportunity to learn something about English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ErikBoyle

I don't know, maybe people who are trying to be a little more formal, or even those who just want to mix it up a little and not say the same thing all the time.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Talca

I said "Thank you for having come!" as each guest arrived at the door on Thanksgiving Day 2015.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/markgjensen

haber is "to have." teniendo is having, so obviously i don't have a clue about this.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Luisa674000

why can not it be "thank you for have come" ???


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/marc4960

I understand that it is the way to say this in spanish but the translation is wrong


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

No, it may not be how you would say it, but the translation is not wrong. There are a number of posts here which demonstrate this.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vanw39

No, the translation is correct. You would find it helpful to read the entire thread.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ErikBoyle

Or even just a small part of it. This has had to be enumerated many times, unfortunately.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AliciaMari234943

"Thank you for having come" is a super awkward translation, doesnt get said in english like that very often. "Thank you for coming" or "thank you for being here" is more likely


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ErikBoyle

So did you just miss all the discussion about this, or are you trolling everyone? I hate to say it, but it's not funny anymore—seriously.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

In a way, I hate to add to the clutter here, but Yes, what EricBoyle said.

Also, the fact is that to say it "doesnt get said in english like that very often" simply demonstrates that you don't circulate at those levels of society where it would be and is said, and said with some frequency. Either that, or you haven't been paying attention.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vanw39

What ErikBoyle said.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stacy767596

PLEASE CHANGE THE TRANSLATION to thank you for coming. This is awkward and inconsistent with grammar in other lessons.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

Ah, but you see, it IS perfectly consistent with English grammar.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vanw39

Señor Tejano, tal vez hayamos olvidado la primera regla de Internet: no alimentar a los trolls.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

Tal vez, pero sigo pensando que algunos de ellos no son trolls, sino simplemente no saben cómo utilizar su propio idioma.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vanw39

You are a more generous hombre than I, sir. Methinks I should learn from you. Muchas gracias.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GraceFinch1

This is not the correct grammer


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vanw39

But it is correct usage, although that is not how one spells grammar.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GraceFinch1

Gramatically this is totally wrong


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

Why do you think it is "gramatically" wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cxnnor

This is not said at all in English, it would be "thank you for coming"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

Not said at all? You could not be more mistaken.

Search the text in this thread for "these examples."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vanw39

I'm afraid someone has hacked your Duolingo account. That wouldn't be said at all by someone who speaks English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Flick147998

Should be 'thank you for coming'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

No, it should not. 'Thank you for coming' is the translation for "Gracias por venir;" the given sentence is different.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lily567342

Its wrong it is supposed to be,Thank you for coming


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/whigamore1

You are in error.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/joanBrowne1

Thank you for coming. English translation is incorrect


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

(Sigh. ) No, the English translation is NOT incorrect. You are mistaken. Completely mistaken.

Of course, you are free to say "Thank you for coming" if you choose to do so. But the translation is PERFECTLY correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vanw39

Given the preponderance of comments here, with numerous explanations of why it is correct, it's apparent that this is a transparent attempt to incite controversy—in other words, a transparent troll.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/joe814027

My opinion of translation. Thank you to have come by. Por=by. Haber =to have. Venido=come. If im wrong please correct me.


[deactivated user]

    'Thank you for having come' makes no sense at all! Shouldn't this be either Thank you for having me or thank you for coming?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vanw39

    No, the translation is correct and makes perfect sense. It has nothing to do with "old English" or "new English", it has to do with a knowledge of the English language in all its versatility.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Xtracular

    It is old English. The alternative to it is "thank you for have coming" and yes, the new English is "thanks for coming". Hope this helped!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

    Nope. Absolutely current English. On the other hand, your "thank you for have coming" is a completely erroneous construct.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MissRawMix

    This is wrong and if more than 200 people are saying so we should probabaly change it lol


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shirlgirl007

    No, there is probably an infinite number of people, "native speakers" who think that if something subjectively in their mind is "awkward, not natural, not heard often, not said that way, not correct grammar, makes no sense", then it must be wrong. It is not wrong, It is an option. I love English partly because there are multiple ways of expressing an idea. I think the goal should always be to increase and broaden our linguistic abilities, native language or not.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/whigamore1

    You, and those "more than 200 people," are wrong. LOL.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vanw39

    Numbers mean nothing (except to linguists). Of course, if enough people persist in ignoring standards, eventually your preference will become the accepted form (initially by linguists, of course).


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Youmeanthatguy

    For me, the issue isn't so much that they want to say "Thank you for having come." Grammatically correct? Maybe. Used by some? Not in my experience. Weird? Definitely. Definitely sounds weird and awkward.

    For me the issue is that they won't let you use "Thank you for coming" which is what I think the majority of English speakers (at least in America) would use.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Youmeanthatguy

    "Thanks for coming" is now acceptable! Awesome!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/laurieff

    Isn't : 'thank you for coming' completely right grammatically and common, and easier to remember for spanish learning english?? I've seen earlier also: tart, translated as acid or sour... I've been speaking english a loooong time and never heard of that translation, does it exist?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/melbroughton

    It seems more like this is thanking someone who is forced to be there as opposed to thanking someone for coming of their own free will.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/donrua1

    I get such a kick out of a cadre of grammar-anals lecturing in grammar purism, with 5 to 10 upvotes each, and arguing with the truly helpful statement that the phrase is unnatural to most native English speakers, while the latter has hundreds of upvotes. The people have spoken. Scoreboard


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vanw39

    Google "Gresham's Law," por favor. (The people spoke in New Hampshire, too; practice saying "President Trump.")


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Xtracular

    Thank you for having come basically means (old English) thank you for having yourself come or (new English) thank you for coming


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Deputamadre69

    Sorry, but if the sentence is grammatically correct doesn't meen it is good. The translation should've been more accurate


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

    The translation is perfectly accurate.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ronniebrasco

    ''having come'' sounds like someone who is trying to speak English lol


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ErikBoyle

    Trying and succeeding, you might say.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vanw39

    I assume "lol" is a typo and you meant to say "someone who is trying to speak English well."


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MyahM.Bynu

    People do not speak like this..


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

    Uh, yes people DO speak like that. You may not, and that's fine, but others – and actually, quite a lot of people – do use this phraseology.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jumpingcarrots

    This sentence does not make sense. Maybe "thank you for coming" is better.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ErikBoyle

    Have you read any of the posts in this discussion covering this?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Joe514418

    In my 34 years of speaking English on this planet I have never once heard a person say "Thank you for having come". It may be gramatically correct and I do not question the Spanish, but it is a poor translation to convey the meaning as no one, at least here in the US, speaks this way.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

    Read more of the comments here. It is not a poor translation, and if you scan this thread more thoroughly, perhaps you will find evidence that, indeed, people DO speak this way, quite correctly, and even in the US. What is it that makes you (and others) think that because YOU have never heard an expression, it is therefore poor English and used by no one? Have you conducted a nation-wide survey?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Joe514418

    I have read the other comments in this thread and it appears that most people agree with me while you chime in with verbatim arguments and down votes like a child. I have not conducted a nationwide survey, but I have a lifetime of speaking English and have lived all over the country. So I can say with a great deal of confidence that there is no statistically significant portion of the US populace that says "Thank you for having come [STOP]".


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vanw39

    Do you by any chance occasionally tweet similarly outrageous and unsubstantiable opinions at 3 am? This Year of Our Lord MMXVII may be even longer than the Long Parliament.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ErikBoyle

    Shall I chime in and add a third voice saying that, indeed, many Americans have said and continue to say "Thank you for having come"? I thought we were all done with this thread months ago, but the stubbornness of those who won't be told that there is more to the world than meets one man's ears is never-ending. Look, if you have never heard it, fine. But you can't go around telling those of us who have heard and use it that we're delusional, especially if you concede that it is, in fact, grammatical.

    P.S. If you think "no statistically significant portion of the US populace" says it, how likely do you think it would be that you'd find three of us so quickly?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shirlgirl007

    Well, Joe, there is also a great big wide world of English speakers out there, outside of the US. Many times even here on DL English speakers from other countries have expressed different ways of saying things native to their part of the world. Not poor English, in my estimation, just perhaps not something you have come across, and that is okay. Spent any time in Australia? You should hear what they say for many common words...


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/davidrosa.tt

    Grammatically its correct but in speaking its not natural and most of us are here to learn to speak naturally not literal cuz no one says ' how many years do you have?'..... Or ' how are you called?' So a natural translation should be given also


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ErikBoyle

    Well, this is a natural translation, so it seems they have everything covered.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NIBOYEMEN

    This is totally, absolutely, undoubtedly, WRONG


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ErikBoyle

    I've made a lot of very serious responses to posts like this over the lifetime of this thread, so let me just get this out:

    lol

    If you are that certain of your authority on the grammar of a language which does not, in fact, possess a prescriptive authority, then boy do I have a bridge to sell you.

    (That language being English. Spanish does have an authority, the RAE, and they're fine with this.)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

    Well, no, it is totally, absolutely, undoubtedly 100% correct. If you thought otherwise, then you have an opportunity to learn something new. Right? There's no reason for anyone to mislead you, so read through the entire thread and perhaps you'll gain a different perspective.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DPhillips222

    Thank you for having come does not sound correct in English


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

    Ah, but you see, it IS correct. Perfectly correct. ;-)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vin273616

    "Having come" doesen't mean anything.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

    Having come to that conclusion, perhaps you should do some remedial study of English grammar. ;-)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vanw39

    Well, yes it does. It means that the person addressed attended the event in question. It's pretty straightforward English.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/laura11345

    it all wrong ...it don't make any sentence.. you would say it thank you for coming.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vanw39

    Forgive me, please, but I don't believe your comment is credible.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

    [I]t don't make any sentence? Interesting way to put it.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JlDvs1

    English translation is off. Should just say "thank you for coming"


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnnaDunste

    No, not necessarily. Say you had an event, and you saw one of your guests the next day and wanted to thank them for having come to your event the night before.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

    No, the English translation is, in fact, perfect. "Thank you for having come" is a legitimate English statement using, as the Spanish does, the present perfect aspect. "Thank you for coming," although also correct, actually has no tense. Please read through the rest of the comments.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mazdee

    OK: Most of the phrases in this lesson make sense in both English and Spanish: I have lived, have known, have read, etc. Fine. But this particular phrase is just plain wrong in English, and I don't care if it is technically correct, it is BAD usage. DL often lets us change the exact wording of a phrase to reflect how it would be expressed in English. For example, another phrase in this lesson is nunca he comido tomate. I translated as I have never eaten A tomato, because that would be proper in English. Of course it was accepted, even though I added the a. Saying "thank you for coming" and "thank you for having come" mean exactly the same. One is a good translation, the other is not! DL should just drop this example.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

    Okay, enough, already. DL should NOT drop this example. It is neither wrong nor "BAD usage," irrespective of what you "don't care."

    It is, in fact, very good and proper usage for those (formal) occasions where it would be used.

    I really don't want to be disrespectful, but, frankly, if you can make the assertion with such conviction that "this particular phrase is just plain wrong in English," it can only be because your own experience with English is narrow enough that you haven't heard (or read) it before.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vanw39

    Assuming that by "good" you mean correct, then you're right, one is a good translation and the other is not. But "thank you for coming" and "thank you for having come" don't mean exactly the same, so it isn't clear which you believe to be good. The number of comments and their detailed descriptions of proper English usage are persuasive arguments that DuoLingo should most definitely not drop this example.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mazdee

    Please explain the difference between "thank you for coming" and "thank you for having come". I want to know.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ErikBoyle

    How about you go read a sampling of the comments here. Take some initiative if you really want to know so badly. We've put in the legwork many times over already.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JRHlQY

    But this was translated to English. They need this information to be corrected or they will be telling the Spanish Learners this is how we speak.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kitkatdancing

    The English translation does not make grammatical sense.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/whigamore1

    No, it makes perfect sense, grammatically and otherwise. Or can you explain why not?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/anna.fine

    This sounds weird in English. It sounds awkward and unusual to say "having come". Most English speakers would simply say " thanks for coming ". I think this needs to be fixed as it is poor grammar in English and confusing for the user as a result.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ErikBoyle

    Is it poor grammar? No. Are there people who don't understand the rules that explain why it is proper grammar? Yes. Does the fact that some people don't understand it mean that mean we should stop saying it correctly? No.

    Think about this. Are there people who don't know apostrophe rules well? Yes. Does that mean Duolingo should stop correctly using apostrophes in their courses for English learners? Of course not.

    Why do so many people feel the need to come to this discussion, disregard all the posts explaining how this sentence is grammatically correct, and make their own new posts which falsely claim that it is wrong? If you're going to do that, at least try to explain what you think is wrong with the sentence. A lot of people have said "It sounds awkward" and "Most people wouldn't say it." It's not awkward to me, and I would say it. Those aren't good enough to argue against the actual rules.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/anna.fine

    I appreciate your reply and do see your point. I was typing on my phone so I didn't realize this was a discussion forum and had no idea about the previous replies--I thought it was a way to flag problematic questions/answers only.

    "Poor grammar" was a bad choice of words. I should have left it at "awkward". This question confused me because I never have heard anyone say it, it sounds cumbersome and too literal, and I'd argue that it is not really an ideal choice of words for anyone--even if it is "grammatically correct"--because there are clearer ways to express the same thought.

    Just because it's not technically "wrong" according to the "rules" doesn't mean it is the best way that the answer could be written. If it was written "thank you for coming" it would be more effective in my opinion, because there would be no confusion. I saw it as a mistake, as did many other people, evidently...so it's probably not the best translation out there.

    That's my reason. And I definitely agree with your apostrophe rule point. No, Duolingo shouldn't lower their standards to accommodate native English speakers who are ignorant of grammar. But that argument isn't really appropriate since I am not proposing a grammatically incorrect alternative Unless someone is going to argue that "thank you for coming" makes no sense to them...


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ErikBoyle

    I understand that "Thank you for coming" is a proper sentence and even agree that it is probably clearer to use most of the time. But it also has a perfectly good translation into Spanish: "Gracias por venir." The Spanish and English grammars work exactly the same in this instance, and the two versions do have different meanings.

    "Coming" is pretty basic and straightforward. "Having come" includes the perfect aspect as well (to have/haber + past participle) so it indicates that the action or state being discussed is presently relevant at the moment of speaking. I could run into some guests who came to my party last week and say "Thank you for coming" because there is no particular time specified by the sentence. If I were speaking to all the guests assembled at my house right then, "Thank you for having come" would be appropriate because the people came in the recent past and that action is relevant at the present. If I said "Thank you for coming" in that situation, I could be referring to the last party I held or this one or anything else.

    It's unlikely anyone would get confused about what I was talking about, but that's the difference. It's not huge, but I see it as being worth it to stick to the literal translation since there are nuances that both languages are expressing that would be lost with the more common phrasing.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vanw39

    Nuance has fallen out of favor; language happens to be the focus in this discussion, but the loss pervades our society. Thank you for having spoken out.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shirlgirl007

    Another similar turn of phrase I have heard quite often lately, is: Having said that....both Ivanka and Donald Trump use this phrase.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mommasspanish1

    i agree that the sentence is awkward.... any native speakers out there.... do people actually talk like this????


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/billyyo

    I am a native speaker. I have used this sentence, have heard others use it and would use it again. To me it is a common way to "say thank you for coming". I would use them interchangeably.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/geneven

    It does not mean "thank you for coming." It means "Thank you. You have already come and gone now, but I appreciate the fact that you came."


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/billyyo

    No, it means exactly what it says. It is a common greeting.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SusannaEDavis420

    Yes, some people talk this way. It's perfectly grammatical. It's the present perfect tense in English.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Talca

    Just heard this the other day: "Having come to this part of the service, the children will now lead us in prayer."


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/katieruthland

    No. We (and DL!) have to remember there is no such thing as literal translation. We don't use articles like Spanish, we just use a gerund (verb with -ing) half the time when they want a correct verb tense. I live in Spain right now and I get slammed all the time for being lazy in my language. Thank you for coming is the translation for Gracias por haber venido. But you can't say Gracias por veniendo - that wouldn't make sense....


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lisagnipura

    Hola katie: But you could say "Gracias por venir". In Spanish the infinitive is used in place of the English gerund; therefore, coming would be "venir". Chau.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mark192935

    Yeah we'd drop the "having" bit in English to be honest DL, and change come to "coming" and don't thank me for the English lesson, if you do then your welcome.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vanw39

    I ain't sure that "lesson" means what your believing it means, but their you go, were all free to talk how we want to.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shirlgirl007

    You are kidding here, right? Thanks for the giggle...


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jaroberts24

    Thank you for having arrived should be accepted.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/katieruthland

    Llegado is arrived. Different meaning


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jimcar

    I agree it is more correct English


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cheryl1

    Ironically, ''I agree it is more correct English'' is itself grammatically incorrect! A sentence can't be ''more correct'' grammatically. It's either grammatically correct or it isn't grammatically correct.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jimcar

    Gracias por la corrección. Tal vez debería tomar clases de Inglés. ja, ja, ja!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wanderlust417

    I have never heard this sentence before, and probably never will. Definitely uncommon amongst native English speakers.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

    Actually, not so at all.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vanw39

    No more uncommon than amongst, this native English speaker posits.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Skeenee

    This translation is not correct. "Thank you for coming" is definitely better.

    I agree with the previous comments, this section is really bad. The sentences are very awkward or just plain wrong...


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cheryl1

    The translation is a correct usage of English grammar. You may find some translations awkward or not pleasing to your ear, but you've given no reason as to why it is not correct.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tejano

    ...which is exactly the case with 95% of these "no one would say that in English" complaints.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vanw39

    Boy howdy! (Which is how my Tejano in-laws taught me to say ¡absolutemente!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/geneven

    I find it amazing how many native speakers don't know their own language very well. How about a new DL course, "English for …English speakers"?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/amyhengst

    Actually English is used in many places throughout the world-- it's amazing we can understand each other at all and no surprise that we speak it slightly differently. What amazes me is that both people who find it awkward and those who find it natural argue their way is the best or right way, and don't even say where they are from.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnnaDunste

    I'm scared it's only going to get worse :(

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