"Ce sont des hommes bons."

Translation:They are good men.

January 3, 2013

44 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/pete6062

Don't adjectives describing goodness come before the subject?

January 28, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/orzechod

That's what I learned in school too. But for what it's worth, a Google search for the phrase "hommes bons" does result in a bunch of French-language news articles (and this Duolingo discussion!).

February 18, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/mipqim

Why not "Ce sont des bons hommes", follow the construction: B.A.G.S ?

March 12, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/northernguy

The Beauty, Age, Goodness(badness), Size convention is a simplification of a more nuanced rule.

Adjectives which are subjective/figurative are placed before the noun. Adjectives which are objective/literal are placed after the noun.

Bon when used to refer to a man who is a good conversationalist would be a subjective/figurative use and therefore would be placed in front.

Bon when used to describe a man who has just received an award as a good man for his obvious charitable works in the community would be an objective/literal use and would therefore be placed after the noun.

Adjectives relating to Beauty, Age, Goodness and Size tend to subjective/figurative in nature so the B.A.G.S. convention is a handy way to make decisions about placement.

Adjectives are subjective by nature so there is always lots of room for discussion of this rule even amongst accomplished French speakers.

There is nothing the phrase used in this question to tell which category bon falls into so either use should be accepted. However most times bon will be in front. Perhaps Duo wanted to force students to find out that there are exceptional uses. Getting their answers marked wrong will cause them to look further to find out why. To that end here is why: http://french.about.com/od/grammar/a/adjectives_fickle.htm

I hear crying owls all over the place.

March 12, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/Suchiththa

That is an exceptionally good answer. We should have a reward system for those who give answers like this. Thank you :)

Is it also possible that it's a pronunciation thing? des bons homme may be difficult to say as it could be heard as des bon somme

September 10, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/northernguy

Thank you.

I'm sure that in ordinary conversations individual speaking styles will reflect ease of pronunciation.

I mean no one is going to stop you and say ...hey wait a minute.. Are you saying that everyone really, really knows that he is a good man or that everyone really, really believes that he's a good man.

Unless you are taking an exam, of course. Then it might be important for you to know the difference.

September 10, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/praveer13

thanks for making it crystal clear

March 21, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/ChuksIfean

Oh my oh my... It's no doubt that northern really is the boss of this BAGS or BANGS rule.... Woops.. Gat alot of cramming to do... Thanks alot..

September 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/krista189497

What a brilliant answer

May 30, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/krista189497

you are superb... and a good reminder

June 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/arandaneri

This is how I will remember this: "Ce sont des bons hommes"= "They are good men". "Ce sont des hommes bons"= They are THE good men. It's just me and my tricks to memorize this things.

August 20, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/ComicOzzie

The robot clearly said "pomme" not homme!

June 5, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/gregoir123

I thought it should be ces sont not ce sont

March 22, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/VagueVogue

Yes, why is it not "Ces sont" instead of "ce sont"? Anyone?

July 24, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/stako

I think the expressions are c'est for the singular and ce sont for the plural. there are no other combinations

September 29, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/enothere

ce is invariable . note it:)

December 19, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Atillathekilla

I hate this sentence

December 19, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/Jaani

I wrote 'these' for ce and was marked correct, why? And why is 'they' also one of the meaning for 'ce'? Dont we already have Elles/Ils?

July 17, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Radoja

it should be "de hommes bons"?

January 3, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/Oohstan

The sentences is talking about more than one man, so it uses the plural form of the word, 'des'.

January 5, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/Marlenka

What you're saying makes sense, but there was another exercise where I had to translate "...good men", and I wrote "des hommes bons", and I got it wrong with the correct response being "de hommes bons".

January 8, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/radoskan

if the adjective is before the noun, then it is "de [adjective] [plural]. if the adjective is behind the noun it's des [plural] [adjective]. buziaki.

January 12, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/tu.8zPhLD72zzoZN

We could use the full sentence. "de" can also mean "of" or "some" The adjective can be before the noun or after.

December 26, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/Sue102

When you listen to the voice at speed it clearly says, "les hommes bons' however in the slower version the voice says "des hommes bons." I've listed 15 times and it still sounds like an "l".

July 9, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/JPS_Originals

And why would what I wrote "those men are good" not be correct? For me "those are good men" and "those are good men" mean the same thing!

August 14, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/IsabellePo12

It never accepts the way I say the sentence! I have had French for 14 years, it just not possible that I speak this simple sentence this bad!

December 31, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/frankwingle

you provide kind as one of the definitions and then mark use of kind wrong. try harder to be consistent.

January 12, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/northernguy

In English we might say he does good works. That does not mean (usually) that he is good at doing works but rather that the works he does are considered good for others. However that still would be an uncommon although valid usage of good.

Duo is not constructing phrases for you to try as many valid but rare applications of given words as possible. bon means more than just kind but you are correct that kind is a meaning that bon does carry. If Duo allows you to use kind for bon then for all they know you may think the terms are interchangeable which they are not.

If you wrote that someone was good at swimming anyone reading that would be very unlikely to think that you meant that the person was very kind when swimming. Kind is almost always good but good very often has nothing to do with being kind.

Duo wants to be sure you understand that.

March 10, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/BradRohrs

"Those men are good" works as well

March 10, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/tu.8zPhLD72zzoZN

Ces hommes sont bons.

December 26, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/stako

"ce sont" means both "these are" and "those are"? so there's no difference in french?

September 29, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/tu.8zPhLD72zzoZN

You are right, but if you wanted to be specific, for "these" you could write "Ceci est" and for "those" you could write "cela est", but be careful, "Ceci, ce sont....." and "Cela, ce sont....." http://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais/ceci/13957/difficulte

Also, there are pronouns for this one and that one "celui-ci" and "celui-là" masculine version, "celle-ci" and "celle-là" feminine version,

"ceux" and "celles" in plural masculine and feminine. http://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais-espagnol/celui/648387?q=ceux http://french.about.com/od/grammar/a/pronouns_demonstrative.htm

December 26, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/dovid1365

why bons and not bonnes

July 17, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Lindsay_D

Bonnes is feminine, bons is masculine.

July 17, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/GeorgiaED

I didnt put the s on bons. Oh my god.

November 10, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/FelixKaus

Sometimes the French pronunciation is rather poor. Here I got beaux for bons (which makes perfect sense).

January 23, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/kkr6855

I heard that 'Jambon,,,?'

January 31, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/WellingtonJs18

Este plural me mata. Eu simplesmente não consigo distingui-los.

February 1, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/WellingtonJs18

Errei pelo simples fato de ter uasado o apóstrofo. Foi sem querer

February 1, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/JesuisAlexS

what?!

January 12, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/JanEgil5

why is it not pronounced deshommes? instead of de hommes?

September 1, 2017

[deactivated user]

    The robot said les, not des. But the turtle robot said des.

    May 29, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/Basilpratique

    I thought elsewhere we say "Je connais des filles bien". So could we say, "Ce sont des hommes bien" to mean the same thing?

    January 19, 2019
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