1. Forum
  2. >
  3. Topic: Ukrainian
  4. >
  5. "У мене немає персика."

"У мене немає персика."

Translation:I do not have a peach.

September 12, 2015

33 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

That's absolutely wrong that, "I have no peach," is not proper! It is 100% proper to say, "I have no peach."

"I ain't got no peach," is said by people who are either uneducated or who choose to speak in an ignorant vernacular.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kags

It might not be grammatically wrong to say "I have no peach", but it is not a construction I have ever heard in normal speech (in British English). "I have no peaches" would be more likely.

And to describe people who would use "I ain't got no peach" as uneducated or using an ignorant vernacular is somewhat perjorative: "ain't" may not be standard English and shouldn't be used in formal contexts, but it is perfectly normal in many dialects and informal settings in both Britain and North America (and possibly also in Australia and New Zealand).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/piguy3

I say things like "I have no peach" all the time; seems a more poignant statement to me. In the first couple hundred results in the Corpus of Contemporary American English, many things following "I have no" are somewhat more abstract (although countable): choice, idea, opinion, clue, excuse. However, there's also "I have no fixed routine"; "I have no stable"; "I have no brother"; and "I have no country."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

"ain't got no peach" is a double negative. If you don't have no peach, then you have a peach or peaches. Otherwise, you have no peach.

I wrote "...people who choose to speak in an ignorant vernacular." I wasn't calling the people who speak this way ignorant, since they speak this way by choice.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kags

They may not "choose" to talk like that: it may be the only way they know.

And even if they do choose, it's not necessarily ignorant - it may be a conscious decision to fit in with the norms of a particular group.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

I agree with the second part, a conscious choice. And in the first part, if that's the only way they know, then that by definition is ignorance--being ignorant of the proper grammar.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

Is there a rule in Ukrainian for when a noun in genitive case ends in "-а" versus "-у"? For example,

персика

винограду

This is confusing because in Russian "-а" is the norm for genitive. "-у" tends to be a locative and dative declension.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

I can read it, but I am learning the language on Duolingo, so I don't understand what I'm reading


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lingvist444285

there is a lot to tranlate and write it here, but you can google-translate it

I do not know your native language, but ukrainian-english translation in google works the best

or I can translate some basics from tables later


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kags

The trouble is that having used Google translate, it also translates the words that you want left in Ukrainian as examples etc. I'm sure somewhere there must be an English language explanation ... the only one I've found so far is here: http://www.ukrainianlanguage.org.uk/read/unit07/page7-3.htm

"Whilst most masculine nouns in the genitive end in а or я, there are certain categories of nouns (e.g. abstract concepts, weights and measures, mass nous, locations and institutions, emotions and states of mind, natural phenomena etc.) which mostly have an ending in у or ю, e.g. університет – університету, дощ – дощу, ідеал – ідеалу etc.

In some nouns a change in genitive ending also denotes a change of meaning, e.g. рака – (of a) lobster, раку – (of) cancer, соняшника – (of) sunflower, соняшнику – (of) sunflower seed. You need to be aware of this point, but it is not covered in detail in this course."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lingvist444285

unfortunately ukrainian is not popular for learning, that's why there are no much rules of ukrainian language in english


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PatriciaZa190635

So peaches are large and countable.....is that the reason for the а vs у ending, even though they are inanimate?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

I'm sure there is a simple rule that explains it


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lingvist444285

there is Kags message a little bit down, with rule in english


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wentris

i have no peach - is it wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/greg.mort

People can say that in spoken English it just isn't a proper way. Also you may see or hear people say ' I ain't got no peach'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

"I have no peach," is completely proper, in both spoken and written English!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

No, it's perfectly correct!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Weylin366674

I have no peach is perfectly fine. It's more dramatic or emphatic than I don't have a peach. Usually we use I have no with abstract ideas and I don't have with physical objects_.

"We have no bananas" :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/piguy3

Is "I don't have the peach" wrong?

I know the course doesn't accept things like "I have the peach" for "У мене є персик" (about the only time it doesn't accept both kinds of articles indiscriminately) and I figure that's because the sentence is about existence of any peach rather than location of a specific peach. But I wouldn't have thought there'd be a similar distinction for negative statements.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

There's nothing to specify a definite peach, so "the" is not a natural construction


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/piguy3

But does Ukrainian have a way to go about pithily specifying a definite peach that I don't happen to have at the moment (like maybe it fell out of the picnic basket in my trunk without my noticing and now I've lugged the basket quite a ways for the picnic)?

Would that have to be "Я не маю персика?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

Yes. У мене немає того персика./Я не маю того персика. "I don't have that peach."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SharichkaV

I don't have any peaches - why is this unacceptable?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

That would be, "У мене немає жодних персиків." "Peaches" plural.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Michael27b

If I don't have a sausage, then I guess it's okay that you don't have a peach.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bgyoshi

I selected персика when this sentence was given as a multiple choice question, and was told I was incorrect, and that the correct choice is персика

????????


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MK147

I don't understand why everything as far as I've come across, turns to the plural when it is "without". And when I translate to english "I don't have peaches", it's marked wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

It's not plural. The singular genitive case of персик is "персика." It declines into this case when negated. Є персик, але немає персика.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MK147

Thanks, i appreciate the feedback. It helps. I knew in the back of my mind that персики was the plural for this word. I had just assumed until then that ukrainian words go into plural form when negated (most do though).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

Most do? I can't think of any. Do you mean genitive case? Negated nouns decline to the genitive case, not plural.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MK147

Forgive me, but I don't know what genitive means. But i suppose you're referring to the form of words when you state the absence of the word in question.

Okay then, in most cases I've encountered on this course at least, the genitive case and plural of most words end in an "и". Немає води, немає книги Are these not the same form as the plural?

At least words ending in "а" in their original form, whereas words ending in a noun would then add an "а".
немає кота

I'm not saying all words are the same as their plural form. But enough for me to make the mistake I mentioned. I suppose I am looking for the easiest way to memorize these different forms of words, and comparing the words when referring an absence of it, to words in plural form, seemed to work....for a short time :)

Thanks again.

Learn Ukrainian in just 5 minutes a day. For free.