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  5. "Par quel moyen ?"

"Par quel moyen ?"

Translation:By what means?

January 3, 2013

81 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Madeline05

It's not to fair to introduce this sentence at the "Listen and Type".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/books_tea_bambi

I agree. I'm not sure I was familiar with the word 'moyen' before this lesson.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/remigio.chilaule

Wasnt "moyen" "average" like in some previous lesson: "c'est un homme moyen"? Its indeed strange it now becomes "means" without having learnt before


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Emfry

Sadly french is mainly context....that's why people have such a difficulty learning the language


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Martineczech

Life's not fair.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Goku1569

c'est la vie haha


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LiFicreator45

je suis d'accord :(


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pattymac60

Is "par quels moyens" correct to? It seems this means the same thing singular or plural


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ThanKwee

It seems to me too that this should also be correct. http://www.franceculture.fr/oeuvre-la-sante-par-quels-moyens-et-a-quels-prix-de-pierre-yves-geoffard'

La santé, par quels moyens et à quels prix ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sorayadragon

then would, "par quelles moyennes" also be correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shriramk

It's curious that "moyens" has the same two meanings in French as its counterpart "means" has in English: "middle" (eg, moyen âge = middle age) but also "methods" (as in this example).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/percyflage

I think English "mean"(average) and "middle", and French "moyen" are all derived from the Latin root "medianus" (?) that gave us "median". The several other definitions of mean in English and French seem to come from a Germanic root. Looks like two separate sources accidentally gave rise a similar word.

...how did I get sidetracked into thinking about all this? Back to the DL practice!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wunel

The mean is not the middle, in English, it is the average. The median is the middle, hence on roads we have a median strip that runs down the middle of the road.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JohnMiller36

Same thing for French though. "moyen" = average.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bhupert

This gives the translation of "par" as "by" or "through", but does not accept "through what means?". Am I just an idiot and unable to see how it's different than "by what means" or am I just missing something here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shriramk

"Through what means" is just not idiomatic English. The proper English phrase is "By what means". So this is a place where a literal translation does not work, and the owl is respecting idioms.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mollymilstone

"Through what means" is fine in my opinion.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ChrisWhatever

May I ask which country you come from? In UK English, 'through what means' is a very strange construction.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/krashman

I live the US, and it doesn't sound weird to me either. "He obtained the MacGuffin." "Through what means?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lovedino

I live in the US too, and it sounds jarring to me! :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mrnmibrc

USA also (midwest and west coast) and it through sounds wrong to me. I would use 'by what means?'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hokusai_1

What is a MacGuffin?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MThoriqMalano

doesn't "quel" means "which" ? doesn't it suppose to be "by which means ?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/colt00

I got the same question


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/michelle.ko

Duo accepted "by which means" for me


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/eellrraatt

By what means? <-- What does it mean? Please!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shriramk

In English, it is roughly equivalent to saying, "How"? Eg:

A: I will fly to the moon. B: By what means?

Literally, "means" here is used to imply a device or method. So, the phrase is equivalent to, "by what device or method"?

So, "how" is a more vague question; "by what means" is more specifically focusing on the method by which this thing will be done.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/codewalker_tse

So generally "comment = par quel moyen "?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/northernguy

How did the Duo bird die? Unpleasantly but no one noticed

By what means did the Duo bird die? Repeated abuse by Duo students.

There is a difference.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shriramk

Shame on you for thinking ill thoughts about the Duo bird. Vive le hibou!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/samsoft

Is the translation "By which route" at least partly correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ChrisWhatever

Not as far as I know... Sorry.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nikitakimba

Partly, yes. You got the "by" bit correct. You need to think of this example as similar to "by what method?" or "by what manner" .......or "how?"

Eg. By what means did he kill her? (How?) By what means will you be able to buy a new car? (How will you be able to buy a new car when I know you don't have any money?)

Route suggests a set of directions, such as when you're planning a trip.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ForgetMeNow

I thought moyen meant average...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ChrisWhatever

Yes, when it is an adjective, but here it is a noun.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/paulkent43

Yes, I agree. There is nothing wrong with "by what means" as far as I am concerned.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KyleSpears

Oh wow, in French, "moyen" generally means "average", but if you consider the terms like in maths where "average" and "mean" can be interchangable it clears up the confusion.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Budahazy

You are mistaken. moyen [mwajε̃] nom masculin [méthode] WAY il n'y a pas d'autre moyen = there's no other way OU solution PAR QUEL MOYEN peut-on le contacter ? = HOW can he be contacted ? Par quel moyen is a very frequently used expression in French.It has nothing to do with maths.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KyleSpears

I'm really just talking about his particular instace. I found the correlation between mean and average in the maths context a bit clarfying for myself and thought it might help someone else, considering there must be some... "etimologic" connection, they come from the same frame of mind.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Budahazy

I realized that you thought mean [mi:n] (n) which can mean in maths moyenne (f )but not moyen.(m)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Patricia6567

I don't see why par in this instance can't be translated as "through what means" just as well as "by what means". Please explain why it can't be "through".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ChrisWhatever

In the UK, it would not be idiomatic English. I don't know about elsewhere. 'Through what means' seems like an unnatural construction to me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nikitakimba

In Australia, it's "by what means" or "through other means", which both mean different things, of course.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/compotrigo

"By which mediums" is really wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/minno726

A word-by-word translation doesn't work here, because the phrase means "by what means", "in what way", or "how".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Omnipotence456

Yes, but "medium" in English can be used to mean "means"...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Muzorewi1984

I agree. "By what means?" and "by what medium?" are both perfectly acceptable phrases. I don't know why it doesn't accept both.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/maparece

You are technically correct, but the point of these exercises is not only to teach the meanings of these words but also to give them an idiomatic spin. "He bought a car? By what medium?" That doesn't sound at all idiomatic and is therefore unrealistic.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jgbachand

it works if you're at a seance...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wunel

Ought to be "which" in that case, but I like your imagination.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/b_chen

The plural of "medium" is "media" ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/guilledelallave

what about "which way?"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Flaviodefalcao

This sentence doesn't make sense for me. Could someone help me?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/northernguy

See most of the comments above.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tariqnisarahmed

i had both marked, "by what means" and "by which means." then i second-guessed myself and figured "by what means" would not get credit. lesson to the student: trust your gut, because you'll be using your gut when you converse, too!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alexiiiis_fr

Why is par quelle moyen wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ThanKwee

"Moyen" is a masculine noun in this sentence and "quel" is used with masculine nouns.

"Par quelle porte ?" = "By which door?" or "By what door?" ("Porte" is a feminine noun)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Budahazy

Moyen is (nm) . the 'quel/quelle are adjectives which we have to accord with the genre and number of the noun. So : quel moyen/ quelle voiture.....and in number quels moyens and quelles voitures.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CherryBerryGerry

When would you use this phrase in English/French? I know it but I have never used it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wunel

You and a friend are marooned on a desert island, your friend suddenly stands up and says "I'm going to leave this place". You look around and respond "by what means?".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CherryBerryGerry

So can it is similar to the phrase: "On what grounds?" Or in some cases "How so?"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wunel

On what grounds = for what reason, e.g. on what grounds are you arresting me.

How so = how is your statement true, e.g. "there is a flaw in your plan". "How so?"

Neither are quite the same as by what means.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JanetHudgins

if quel is either which or what how can which be wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lckislin

i selected both what and which for my answer today(11/14/13) and it marked them both correct


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TanteGeorgette

I thought moyen meant average?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/northernguy

Maybe the average French speaker has as big a problem distinguishing between the mean and the average as most English speakers.=;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Budahazy

I marked in the first which was: By what means? what I see up here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/grahamrobb77

Through what means, means I lose a heart on a acceptable answer.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SourireCache

Hah, I got this right even though I totally guessed that last word was "moyen".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SourireCache

Hah, I got this right even though I totally guessed that last word was "moyen".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JohnB03

in what manner should be OK but Bong!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ex3mity

Which is the italian translation please?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dieuadieu

Just me, or does it sound like "par quelle moyenne?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hang352

By whats means ? What does this sentence mean, please ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PouriaF.

When do we use quel, que, and qoui?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/johans2103

When use "Pour" and "Par" both mean similar.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/johans2103

It's possible to say: "By which means" in other context?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rilla47

By what means? By any means necessary!

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