I agree. I'm not sure I was familiar with the word 'moyen' before this lesson.
Wasnt "moyen" "average" like in some previous lesson: "c'est un homme moyen"? Its indeed strange it now becomes "means" without having learnt before
Sadly french is mainly context....that's why people have such a difficulty learning the language
Is "par quels moyens" correct to? It seems this means the same thing singular or plural
It seems to me too that this should also be correct. http://www.franceculture.fr/oeuvre-la-sante-par-quels-moyens-et-a-quels-prix-de-pierre-yves-geoffard'
La santé, par quels moyens et à quels prix ?
'Moyenne" is an adjective or noun that means "average". http://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais-anglais/moyenne/209588
I think English "mean"(average) and "middle", and French "moyen" are all derived from the Latin root "medianus" (?) that gave us "median". The several other definitions of mean in English and French seem to come from a Germanic root. Looks like two separate sources accidentally gave rise a similar word.
...how did I get sidetracked into thinking about all this? Back to the DL practice!
The mean is not the middle, in English, it is the average. The median is the middle, hence on roads we have a median strip that runs down the middle of the road.
This gives the translation of "par" as "by" or "through", but does not accept "through what means?". Am I just an idiot and unable to see how it's different than "by what means" or am I just missing something here?
I live the US, and it doesn't sound weird to me either. "He obtained the MacGuffin." "Through what means?"
USA also (midwest and west coast) and it through sounds wrong to me. I would use 'by what means?'
doesn't "quel" means "which" ? doesn't it suppose to be "by which means ?"
In English, it is roughly equivalent to saying, "How"? Eg:
A: I will fly to the moon. B: By what means?
Literally, "means" here is used to imply a device or method. So, the phrase is equivalent to, "by what device or method"?
So, "how" is a more vague question; "by what means" is more specifically focusing on the method by which this thing will be done.
How did the Duo bird die? Unpleasantly but no one noticed
By what means did the Duo bird die? Repeated abuse by Duo students.
There is a difference.
Partly, yes. You got the "by" bit correct. You need to think of this example as similar to "by what method?" or "by what manner" .......or "how?"
Eg. By what means did he kill her? (How?) By what means will you be able to buy a new car? (How will you be able to buy a new car when I know you don't have any money?)
Route suggests a set of directions, such as when you're planning a trip.
Yes, I agree. There is nothing wrong with "by what means" as far as I am concerned.
Oh wow, in French, "moyen" generally means "average", but if you consider the terms like in maths where "average" and "mean" can be interchangable it clears up the confusion.
You are mistaken. moyen [mwajε̃] nom masculin [méthode] WAY il n'y a pas d'autre moyen = there's no other way OU solution PAR QUEL MOYEN peut-on le contacter ? = HOW can he be contacted ? Par quel moyen is a very frequently used expression in French.It has nothing to do with maths.
I'm really just talking about his particular instace. I found the correlation between mean and average in the maths context a bit clarfying for myself and thought it might help someone else, considering there must be some... "etimologic" connection, they come from the same frame of mind.
I realized that you thought mean [mi:n] (n) which can mean in maths moyenne (f )but not moyen.(m)
I don't see why par in this instance can't be translated as "through what means" just as well as "by what means". Please explain why it can't be "through".
In Australia, it's "by what means" or "through other means", which both mean different things, of course.
A word-by-word translation doesn't work here, because the phrase means "by what means", "in what way", or "how".
I agree. "By what means?" and "by what medium?" are both perfectly acceptable phrases. I don't know why it doesn't accept both.
You are technically correct, but the point of these exercises is not only to teach the meanings of these words but also to give them an idiomatic spin. "He bought a car? By what medium?" That doesn't sound at all idiomatic and is therefore unrealistic.
i had both marked, "by what means" and "by which means." then i second-guessed myself and figured "by what means" would not get credit. lesson to the student: trust your gut, because you'll be using your gut when you converse, too!
"Moyen" is a masculine noun in this sentence and "quel" is used with masculine nouns.
"Par quelle porte ?" = "By which door?" or "By what door?" ("Porte" is a feminine noun)
Moyen is (nm) . the 'quel/quelle are adjectives which we have to accord with the genre and number of the noun. So : quel moyen/ quelle voiture.....and in number quels moyens and quelles voitures.
When would you use this phrase in English/French? I know it but I have never used it.
You and a friend are marooned on a desert island, your friend suddenly stands up and says "I'm going to leave this place". You look around and respond "by what means?".
So can it is similar to the phrase: "On what grounds?" Or in some cases "How so?"?
On what grounds = for what reason, e.g. on what grounds are you arresting me.
How so = how is your statement true, e.g. "there is a flaw in your plan". "How so?"
Neither are quite the same as by what means.
i selected both what and which for my answer today(11/14/13) and it marked them both correct
Maybe the average French speaker has as big a problem distinguishing between the mean and the average as most English speakers.=;)