https://www.duolingo.com/Eikoopmit

Fágann Pól a bhean chéile

I'm not sure if proper nouns are meant to have a capital letter in the beginning so I decided to stick with English rules for this; please correct me if I'm mistaken. I also may have gotten the oh-so-complicated rules relating to the letter "h" incorrect, but I think that after a possessive thingy the noun is supposed to have a letter "h"; please correct me if I'm mistaken.

3 years ago

16 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
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Your example is correct; proper names are capitalized, and a noun governed by a meaning “his” is lenited. Note that a noun governed by a meaning “their” is eclipsed rather than lenited, and a noun governed by a meaning “her” remains unmutated.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Eikoopmit

Thanks for helping me with the lenition/eclipsis.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Eikoopmit

Tá Pól d'bhean chéile brónach

Once again, I only think I got this one correct. I had to resort to using an online this-language-to-that-language dictionary that works for about fifty languages in order to find "sad", and I'm unsure as to whether I should have used "d'" or "de", or if I even translated "Paul's wife" correctly.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/proinsias123

I think if you want to say Pól's wife, the genitive case is required. Bean chéile an Póil, I think it would be, but I may be wrong.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Eikoopmit

Oh. In that case, I shall rephrase.

Tá bean chéile an Póil brónach

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mwasson
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Note that that's in the definite--"the wife of Pól" instead of "Pól's wife," which wouldn't have the "an." I dunno which would be more idiomatic, though.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/galaxyrocker

The example with éire is weird because it's generally always definite in the genitive. A better example would be teach Sheáin for 'Seán's house'

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mwasson
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GRMA--trying to generalize from that was throwing me for a loop. Good to know it's an exception.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/proinsias123

If it was bean chéile Póil, wouldn't that translate to a wife of Paul? That sounds off to me.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/galaxyrocker

Bean chéile Phóil is 'Paul's wife'. You don't have to translate the genitive as 'of' everytime. In fact, a lot of times it's better not to. (cat na leabharlainne sounds better as 'the library's cat')

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/galaxyrocker

Pól is definite, so it doesn't need to have it. Bean chéile Phóil is definite as well. It's rare to see articles used with names in the genitive

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mwasson
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Hrm, you're probably right. Because we say "Uachtarán na hÉirinn", not "Uachtaran Éirinn". But it also seems like for the most part proper nouns bring their own definiteness? And we don't see this in the English if you use the Saxon genitive instead of the Romantic.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mwasson
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Thanks, galaxyrocker. So how do an/na and proper nouns in the genitive interact? Do you only use the definite article if the head noun should be definite?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/proinsias123

But isn't 'Paul's wife' definite? So wouldn't it require the definite article?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/proinsias123

You're right. I think I get it now.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Eikoopmit

And one day later I did the lesson on the genitive case.

3 years ago
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