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"Lui mi fa indicare il piatto sul menu."

Translation:He has me point out the dish on the menu.

November 5, 2013

62 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MimiB_Velo

He made me indicate....???? What kind of English is this?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Viaggiatore

I think "He makes me point out..." would sound better.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alanvoe

Regarding "to indicate" vs "to point out", I think both verbs work fine here.

Regarding "to make do", I suppose it depends on the context. The main meanings of "to make somebody do something" is "to force somebody to do something" (eg My mother made me go to bed) or "to cause something to happen" (eg His adventures made me want travel to Europe). Hardly a waiter would force a customer to point something out in a menu. However, in some very specific contexts, the waiter could tell the customer that he can only eat if he points something in the menu (eg because the waiter didn't understand what the customer was saying). Even though the customer possibly didn't want much to point anything, he did it because he wanted to eat. On the other hand, if the speaker does not feel any pression in a waiter's polite request, "to ask me to point out" or "to have me point out" would make more sense. The latter case is much more common and probably that's why Duolingo has replaced "to make" with "to have" in the main translation of this sentence.

Anyway, in Italian, "fare qualcuno fare qualcosa" may mean:

  • to make somebody do something. Examples: Ho fatto scusare mio figlio con il suo amico (= I have made my son apologize to his friend). Mi hai fatto una brutta figura. (You made me look bad)

  • to have somebody do something. Examples: Ho fatto riparare la macchina dal meccanico (= I had the car fixed by the mechanic). Faccio tagliare i capelli alla parucchiera. (= I have the hair cut at the hairdresser).

  • to let me do something. Examples: Let me think... (= Fammi pensare...). Per favore mi faccia sapere. (= Please let me know).

Notice that only "let me do" translates as "fammi / mi faccia". It is imperative and the target of the action is the speaker. In other cases, "lasciar fare" is used instead. Example: La lascia pensare per un momento (= he/she lets her think for a moment).

Finally, "far fare qualcosa" can also have specific meanings with specific verbs, eg fare qualcuno passare (= to let somebody through), fare vedere (= to show)

In this specific sentence, the intended meaning is "to have somebody do something".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CorkyRingspot

You're right - it's absolute ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤. What are they thinking.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marninger

Lui mi fa indicare = He makes me indicate/point at
il piatto sul meny = the plate/dish on the menu


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alanvoe

"lui mi fa indicare" may mean either "he has me point out" or "he makes me point out" in this context.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Soglio

What's wrong with "indicate"? It sounds fine to me. (Native English speaker.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LASound

he made me indicate sounds perfectly fine to me as well. I speak American English though, maybe it's different for another English speaking country


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/italiaoo

Hey folks, if you think "indicate" is wrong you should write a comment about this and not just vote Soglio down.

His question is totally nice and very helpful.

If you think "indicate" is bad (I also thought it was bad), then write a comment about it and vote yourself up!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nonna602151

I used "show" rather than "indicate," but it wasn't accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/italiaoo

Hi Soglio,

To me "indicate" sounds terribly technical, but I am not a native English speaker of any English speaking community.

I would think "indicate" should not be used to translate the Italian "indicate" into English, so for me it is very intersting to hear from you and LAsound that for you it feels fine :-)

Thank you for posting this information!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LASound

'indicate' is a little technical, but I wouldn't say it's abnormal in everyday speech. But again, dialect could come in to play. I'm a young male on the West Coast, and I hear the word being used.

'Point Out' might be a little more common, but nobody would think you were weird if you used indicate. Also, context of the conversation might come in to play, too, for which you would use.

Because English is my first language and I never learned the 'technical' side of it like a language you learn later in life, I'm having a little trouble explaining it. Hopefully it's clear enough.

The short and skinny is that both would be fine.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Soglio

Well, "point out" is perfectly fine, too; if Duolingo isn't accepting it, I recommend reporting it.

As for "indicate" - See http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/indicate . One of the examples given, "The general used a long ruler to indicate on the map exactly where the troops would land," strikes me as similar to this example.

LASound raises a good point, though, in that context and/or regional variations may come into play.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/darkpeak

'Indicate' is fine. It's a more articulate use of English. (I'm an English teacher)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PattyinRoma

"He has me point out the dish on the menu" -- I think is the best translation (for me). Or the more formal: "He has me indicate the dish on the menu". 'Fare' in Italian is a complex and widely used word that we can't always directly translate. It is better to just understand the use rather than directly translate.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/arrotino

I agree completely. Although "to make" is one definition for fare, this construction with "far fare" is generally translated in instructional textbooks and classes as "to have someone do something".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HaroldWonh

He's me show??????????? And this is supposed to be English, my native language?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/valerieheath

I was wondering the same thing.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mmseiple

Unfortunately, Duo likes to turn things into contractions when they shouldn't be, like "he has" here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/italiaoo

"He lets me show the dish on the menu." is not accepted (December 2013). Is it bad English? Thanks!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LASound

That's not bad English, but it's strange English. the 'let' is what makes it sound a little strange.

It would make sense in the context of the speaker wanting to show the dish and "He" is the one who decides whether the speaker can show it or not. But like I said, it's kind of strange English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Soglio

"Show" also sounds a bit odd to me here; to me, it suggests that the person you're showing something to can't already see it. In this case, it suggests that you are the person creating the menu, and he is "letting" you list or put a picture of the dish on the menu.

But you could say "show him" the dish on the menu, and that sounds OK to me, though I can't say what the difference is. (Native US English speaker)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jan534792

'Lets' suggests permission is required as in 'allows'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Viktoria_Chance

i don`t understand the meaning at all. How somebody can "make me" indicate? Maybe - "ask me" indicate? (Not native english speaker)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Soglio

If somebody makes you do something, it means that s/he requires you to do it, or forces you to do it.

In this case, for example, imagine that you are in a restaurant that serves food from another country, food that is unfamiliar to you.

First, you try to pronounce it, but you don't know how to say it correctly in the other language. The waiter does not understand you.

You try a second time in your own language. The waiter still does not understand. He opens the menu and asks you to point to it - or, you might say later, "He made me indicate the dish on the menu."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DonFeidner

The only sentence that makes good sense to me is "He shows me the dish on the menu." Dish in English here would mean (dinner or lunch) entry, which is commonly used. The use of "fa" here makes the same sense as it would in "fa la barba" = do your beard = shave


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mrcjo

My "correct" translation said "He's me show the plate on the menu." This is certainly isn't English (American or British). I tbink it should be "He shows me the plate on the menu." That would make sense.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nancy53656

This will play in Bergamo. La mia pronuncia italiana è così male che il cameriere mi fa indicare il piatto sul menu.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MelissaHoe2

I missed who was doing tge action which is why i missed it, but some of you may find it interesting that the answer Duo used is point out, rather than indicate


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/barb7

It me, this sounds like a translation dictionary version The word is not wrong but not in common use , Certainly not by Brit English speakers.... It makes me wonder yet again are there NO English speakers on these teams.????...
????? I long ago decided to remember i theDL expressions because of suggested so many corrections that were not corrected...sadly, and more so for the English learners.hopefully more and more of them will question the community for guidance and good grammar books.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CorkyRingspot

It's just terrible. Yes, a free app, very lucky to have it, but really, the sample sentences do you need to be in English..m


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/qweggy

Please change this answer - it is terrible English!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Beethofan

I amde a small mistake and then found this solution of Duolingo: He's me indicate the plate on the menu. What kind of English is this???


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RosalindaJ7

"He's me indicate the dish on the menu." Huh??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Evelyn667713

Even as a non native English speaker this translation makes my toenails curl.... Beside the translation on top of this page, they gave the option: "He's me show him the dish on the menu"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HaroldWonh

Exactly, Evelyn: so you can imagine how their translations make a (British) native English speaker feel! I report and report, but very little ever changes here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dawn294930

"He's me show the plate" cannot be correct, c'mon DL!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mmseiple

The system likes to turn things into contractions that shouldn't be (like "he has" here). This is a frustration for us contributors as well, since the translation we have entered is accurate, but it doesn't always show up properly for the users. To DonFeidner, "he indicates" or "he points" are not correct, since he is prompting me to do the action, not doing it himself.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/opakai

Is this really a correct english sentence: "He has me point out the dish on the menu"? This was the only possible combination of the given tapped words and it was accepted by Duo on 06.Dec.2016. For me it sounds strange. Grazie!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HaroldWonh

It does sound strange, but it is correct. "He has me do something" means "He gets me to do something". Much though I hate the word "get" when there is a better alternative, here "He gets me to" would probably be much clearer. But "He has me point out" is infinitely better than "He's me show" which used to be DL's preferred translation!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/opakai

Thanks HaroldWonh for your reply.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HairyChris88

He has me point out? What sort of English is that?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SusanRankin1

I thought this would be he showed me the plate on the menu. Fa indicare isn't that third person. I thought it would be he me indicatd the plate on the menu... SIGH..... Not doing very well in this section...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mmseiple

The trick is in the verbs. Here you have "fa," which is what directs the action to another person. So if we break it down we have "Lui" (he) "mi" (me) "fa" (make) "indicare" (point out/show) "il piatto" (the dish). If we just say "He indicates the dish to me," we're forgetting "fa," which completely changes the meaning. Instead, we want "He has/lets/makes me point out..."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sonogaby

That's a really clear explanation, thank you! For me the problem was not quite understanding the situation in which one would use this sentence. I think the context is as follows (and I know somebody will correct me if I'm wrong!): I am in a restaurant and I ask for pasta carbonara, for example. The waiter tells me that it is not on the menu. I say to him, "Yes it is, it is listed here on the menu". The waiter then asks me to show him where that particular dish is listed on the menu: he makes me indicate the dish on the menu.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mmseiple

Right, you could use it to describe that situation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SusanRankin1

Thank you! That helps immensely!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PhilOBrien

Hi Susan,

While this question has raised a bit of controversy over the years (read back through the other comments), your basic mistake here was to use the Past Tense in English. The Italian here is in the Present Tense, and hence the English translation should also be in the Present Tense.

Cheers, Phil


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SusanRankin1

And sadly MOST of the comments on this are people arguing about what is correct in ENGLISH which I am not trying to learn ARGH


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SusanRankin1

Sorry I was no very clear I guess.I am not confused by the tenses I am confused by MI in this.. I would have thought the OBJECT was MI that HE indicates to ME the platter on the menu but instead it is he make ME indicate the platter...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SusanRankin1

That still isn't clear is it? I THOUGHT that the sentence was: He indicates to me the platter on the menu but apparently it means He makes me indicate the platter on the menu and I don't know how to recognize that in future.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tone78

Your translation hint reads:

He's me indicate the dish on the menu.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bjoern_SPQR

"He has me point out the dish on the menu."

Weirdest sentence so far... (I am now at Level 23)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/abbie739599

This doesn't sound right to me. Indicated is a technical response. Why can't it be point out or show?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Juliette377661

What an awkward sentence


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KariEsvall0

Solution: 'He HAS me point out the dish on the menu'. What kind of English is this? I tried 'He MADE me ...', but that was not accepted. I have reported this.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ToddDowty

"He has me point out...". What? How?! Argh!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ToddDowty

When i ask how, I'm not questioning what the waiter is asking. That is obvious. I'm struggling with the translation. To me it says "he makes me indicate". "He had me point out" seems a bit of a leap designed for those good at word puzzles. I'm not one of those, so i have to remember instead. Surely I'm not the only one struggling with things like this?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EdithA.Tressl

I am not a native English speaker, but I don't have any problems with this sentence. One should just have a little more fantasy and less criticism. Imagine I am telling a friend "When I was on holiday in Italy, I went to a restaurant to have something to eat and ordered a dish. The waiter looked at me, obviously not having understood "my perfect Italian" and then .... ".. makes me point out the dish on the menu". Coming back to our lesson "Lui mi fa indicare il piatto sul menu" - translated into "He has me point out the dish on the menu". Now where is the problem ??? Learning means "open the door and let "new" things come in. :))

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