"De argumenten steunen het standpunt niet."
Translation:The arguments do not support the position.
"Standpoint" should be removed entirely. No one says "standpoint" in english, even though as a compound word the general idea is understandable. "point of view", "premise", "opinion" are all much better.
Exactly! Also, I translated to 'opinion' and it said it was wrong. And then all of a sudden 'stance' would be the correct translation when that wasn't even given?
Wellicht een betere engelse vertaling voor standpunt in deze context is "position" of "point of view".
"the arguments do not support the position" not accepted though? - error shown for use of "position".
"The history of discrimination, domination and power struggles among the concrete others trump the standpoint of the generalized other." Seyla Benhabib, Turkish-American philosopher. She is Eugene Mayer Professor of Political Science and Philosophy at Yale University, director of the program in Ethics, Politics, and Economics, born in Istanbul, Turkey. Dear native English speakers, particularly Americans! Academic and business English are, at times like these, best thought of as foreign languages!
So arguments as in "quarrel" or as in "fact or statement used to support a proposition"?
What is a 'standpoint'. I have been speaking English for nearly 44 years, and never I have used the word 'standpoint'. Ever.
They mean "point of view", "opinion", or "argument", but have used a bad literal translation.
That's nice, but I am a native speaker, and when native speakers do not understand what is being said, you should listen.
"I come from the standpoint that..." is used, but "You must support the standpoint that..." is not. I realize the distinction may not be obvious or even sensible to a non-native speaker, or someone who hasn't used the phrases in their native dialect, but these are not equivalent. "stand"+"punt" = "stand"+"point", but everywhere that Dutch uses "standpunt" is not correctly translated to "standpoint" in English.
So you are saying that in all the examples given, all from fairly decent English sources I think we can agree, Dutch wouldn't use standpunt?
Or are you saying that you can:
- Sympathise with the standpoint..
- Look at something from the standpoint
- Have a standpoint
- Start from the standpoint
- Trump the standpoint
But you cannot:
- Support a standpoint.
In case of the former: in each of the examples one could/would use standpunt in Dutch.
In case of the latter, the following sources seem to disagree:
- "...is the argumentation put forward to support the standpoint.... " - (it's a pdf) Author is Professor James B Freeman (http://www.hunter.cuny.edu/philosophy/faculty/freeman)
- "...and create deductive and inductive arguments to support the standpoint..." - (again a pdf) Author is Dr. Rebecca Jones: Associate Professor and Director of English Graduate Studies (http://www.utc.edu/english/profiles/faculty/xrz773.php)
- "...in my judgement they do support the standpoint..." - (again a pdf) Peter Robottom (Planning Inspectorate Bristol (UK)) - Native English speaker.
- "The results support the standpoint that ..." - Teacher magazine Australia
- "The participants’ ability to conceptualize mental distress despite the lack of empirical knowledge supports the standpoint that..." - (again a pdf) Keogh et al. (All (associate) Professors in Ireland and the UK)
- "...which supports the standpoint of Moretti's personal philosophy..." - Dr. Eleanor Andrews (UK) (http://www.wlv.ac.uk/about-us/our-schools-and-institutes/faculty-of-arts/school-of-media/staff/dr-eleanor-andrews/)
I'm sure you'll appreciate the fact that I made sure that all of the above are definitely native English speakers, and let's just hope that a Director of English Graduate Studies has some idea of what native English speakers understand. For clarity, in all of these cases one could/would standpunt in Dutch.
Yes, I am saying that these are different uses than what is used in this DuoLingo example. I will say the exception is the first PDF link. I'd say in that one it is in fact used as DuoLingo is using it. That's an unusual usage- I'd say I've never seen it before - and while it's perfectly understandable in context, without the surrounding article I'd find it a bit confusing, in much the way that the DuoLingo example is.
The rest are not really the same usage. Exactly how it is that they differ is really idiomatic. I see how it's almost impossible to understand if those are used identically in your native language. The best I can say is that I see "standpoint" used in English to mean a starting point of view or personal perspective but not really a premise that needs defense. I feel that's an insufficient explanation though. "That's just not how we use it" is really the best I can do.
I'm not trying to be rude (and again I realize my first phrasing was indeed quite rude, and I apologize again), but this DuoLingo example does not use common English usage.
And to be clear, I'm not saying Dutch wouldn't use "standpunt" everywhere that English uses "standpoint", but the converse. English doesn't use "standpoint" everywhere that Dutch (apparently) uses "standpunt". You may be able to substitute "standpunt" for every "standpoint", but you cannot substitute "standpoint" for every "standpunt".
So to move from support a/the standpoint to defend a/the standpoint
To quote you: "The best I can say is that I see "standpoint" used in English to mean a starting point of view or personal perspective but not really a premise that needs defense."
Interestingly all these English sources do believe that a standpoint can be "a premise that needs defense".
But I'm going to leave it at this. I'm sure I've given enough English sources, and I'm also sure you are aware that there is little argumentation that beats: "That's just not how we use it".
For various reasons I decided to withdraw from commenting on the Dutch forum and while this particular case tempted me to still comment (partly because my initial response was from before that decision) it is best if I leave it at this and use my time and energy elsewhere.
Sorry, that first paragraph I realize on re-reading has a very rude tone. The point is that native speakers use and don't use purely idiomatic phrases that aren't logically sensible, and the understanding or lack of understanding of native speakers is really the best way to go on whether a translation is correct. I then saw it read more like "your opinion doesn't matter", so apologies.