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"La muzikisto devos flugi al Pekino."

Translation:The musician will have to fly to Beijing.

October 8, 2015

26 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DaveT

Kial Esperanto jam uzas tradukto de la malnovan nomo de la urbo? E-o ne ankoraxu uzas Leningrado por Petroburgo, cxu ne?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/arbaro

Unu kialo estas ke la ĉinoj mem kaj registaro de ĉinio ankoraŭ uzas la vorton "pekino", kaj esperantistoj kutime nur emas ŝanĝi la nomon de geografiaj lokoj kiam la loĝantaro tie petas tion.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mutusen

"Pekin" estas ankoraŭ uzata en pluraj lingvoj, ekz. la franca. "Beijing" estas pli moderna transliterumo, ne nova nomo.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RaizinM

Prave. En la ĉina la nomo de la urbo ne ŝanĝis. Nur estas kelkaj lingvoj, kiuj lastatempe komencis uzi la mandaren-ĉinan nomon anstataŭ Peking/Pekin/ktp.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/spuddy93

Peking is a super old romanization of Beijing. Mandarin Chinese has always pronounced it Bĕijīng. The now standard pinyin method is a waaaay more accurate transliteration of the sounds (yet still imperfect).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gitaarfreak

Not completely true. When Beijing got known in the west, the locals themselves still pronounced it as Peking. This is the form that the city entered many European languages. Afterwards there was a sound change in Chinese (compare it with the great english vowel shift). But indeed the current transliteration Beijing (in pinyin) for the current way it is pronounced is way better than the older transliteration. In Wade Gillis the current transliteration would be something like Pei-ching. By the way: the same also happened with Nanking/Nanjing. But I never hear someone in English say Nanjing.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/spuddy93

I will cede to that, but I must have misunderstood my Chinese professor then. Very interesting.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nigeltart

"Must" was marked wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

Notice that the sentence is future tense. In English "must" is never used in future tense.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/claire_resurgent

> In English "must" is never used in future tense.

English "must" has identical forms in present and future tense.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

"You must go today and tomorrow you also must go."

I suppose you could get away with that, but the English language guides I've checked say there's no future form.

http://www.englishpage.com/modals/must.html

"You must go today, and tomorrow you will also have to go" just sounds better to my native-English-speaker ears.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoelMacha

There's no problem with "You must go tomorrow."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

Who said there was?

If you're replying to me, what I said is that there's a problem with "you will must go." I said you can get away with "you must go tomorrow" - but the grammar guides (and my ear) prefer "will have to" - especially as a translation of devos.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sr.Diego.o

Mi pensas ke estas du pravaj respondoj cxi tie, "devu" kaj "devos." La dua estas eble la pli bona elekto, sed la unua ankoraux funkcias.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

Mi malsamopinias.

  • La muzikisto devos flugi al Pekino. = The musician will have to fly to Beijing.
  • La muzikisto devu flugi al Pekino. = May the musician have to fly to Beijing.

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sr.Diego.o

Sxajnas ke, laux vi, oni devas scii la "gxustan respondon" unue, antaux ol oni donas sian respondon! Per tia scio, oni povas elekti la respondon, kiun "la instruisto sxatas," ecx kiam aliaj respondoj estas ankaux gxustaj. Ekzemple: Se oni scias ke la "originala" frazo estas, "La muzikisto devos flugi al Pekino," oni plenigi la truon per "devos." Sed, se oni ne scias la originalan frazon, oni rajtas plenigi la truon per io, kio obeas la gramatikajn regulojn de la lingvo, cxu ne? (Bonvolu pardoni min, se mi faris erarojn cxi tie. Mi ne estas komencanto, sed mi ankoraux estas studento, kiu plibonigxis mem per Duolingo! Dankon, Duo!)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

I'm not sure what you're talking about. I need more context. Are you talking about a specific kind of exercise in Duolingo? If so, I have no idea which kind you are doing, so it would be helpful if you could provide the context.

I am starting to guess that maybe it was a drop down exercise. If so - yes, one could argue that both "devu" and "devos" are grammatically correct - but I would think common sense would be the guide here - and "may they have to fly" is such an unusual sentence, that we can reject that choice.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sr.Diego.o

When I and others here say, "seems like devu should fit, why is it marked wrong?" we do so in the context of Duo telling us that devu means "should," and then giving us a "fill-in-the-blank" exercise where the verb is missing. The "original" sentence used devos, and if you have seen it before, you will probably remember and fill in the blank with devos. But if you come to the exercise fresh, you can legitimately think that either devos or devus works: "Musicians should fly to Beijing," or "Musicians will have to fly to Beijing." As a fill-in exercise, the chose of mood and tense is up to the student. Only if one already knows that the answer "is supposed to be" devos, will one invariably make that "correct" choice. So it comes down to which you see first. The model ("original") sentence, or the fill-in-the-blank exercise. But even when you KNOW that Duo "expects" devos, the fill-in-the-blank exercise should still accept devu, if grammatically correct. (Or, more in keeping with the corpus of questions, it should simply not offer devu as a choice.) I apologize if my poor (yet lately much improved, thanks to Duo) Esperanto did not convey all of this well enough. Mi klopodas ne krokodili! :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

On the contrary. If a person knows what devu actually means, then it should be possible to know that it doesn't fit well in a sentence like:

  • "La muzikisto XXXXX flugi al Pekino."

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sr.Diego.o

Mi ankaux parolas la angla denaske.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PetziPotato

Why is "La muzikisto devu flugi al Pekino" not valid?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

Compare your answer to the original and read through the rest of the thread for more info. If you still have questions, let me know.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PetziPotato

I believe I have it, thanks! "Devu" means there's a current obligation, while "devos" means there will be an obligation in the future.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

"Devu" means that there is no obligation, but there's pressure for such an obligation to exist. It's not a form of the word I would use.


But [devu] shows up in the course :/ https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/28660423

Ah, yes it does. Specifically:

  • "Mi ne volas, ke ili devu flugi al Parizo."

Yes, the course is correct. In this context devu makes sense.

"There may or not be obligation for them to fly to Paris, but either way through my will there's pressure for no such obligation to exist."

It does not mean that there actually will or won't be obligation in the future.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vabelie

This is not the same case

volas, ke ili devu flugi al Parizo.

The fact that this is a subordinate clause following a verb expressing will makes the volitive -u necessary.

sfuspvwf npj

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