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https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zzzzz...

Slow Finnish - Chapter 6a - Monelta juna lähtee?

Kaisa ja Yvonne ovat rautatieasemalla. He menevät junalla Iisalmeen, koska Kaisan perhe asuu Iisalmessa.

Myyjä: Huomenta.

Kaisa: Huomenta. Kaksi lippua Iisalmeen, kiitos.

Myyjä: Kaksi lippua Kuopiosta Iisalmeen maksaa 49,80e.

Kaisa: Meillä on opiskelijakortit.

Myyjä: Saatte liput puoleen hintaan. Maksatteko kortilla vai käteisellä?

Kaisa: Kortilla. Monelta juna lähtee?

Myyjä: Juna lähtee 15:35.

Kaisa: Monelta juna saapuu Iisalmeen?

Myyjä: Juna saapuu Iisalmeen 16:31.

Kaisa: Miltä raiteelta juna lähtee?

Myyjä: Juna lähtee raiteelta 2. Tässä ovat lippunne.

Kaisa: Kiitos ja hyvää päivänjatkoa.

Myyjä: Kiitos samoin ja hyvää matkaa.

Sanasto

  • rautatieasema railway station
  • rautatieasemalla at the railway station (adessive)
  • mennä to go
  • he menevät they go
  • juna, junat train
  • junalla by train (adessive)
  • Iisalmi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iisalmi
  • Iisalmeen to Iisalmi (illative)
  • koska because
  • Kaisan Kaisa's (genetive)
  • perhe, perheet family
  • lippu, liput ticket
  • maksaa to cost, to pay
  • opiskelijakortti, -kortit student card
  • saada to get, to receive
  • saatte you get
  • puoli half
  • hinta, hinnat price
  • puoleen hintaan at half price
  • maksatteko are you paying
  • kortti, kortit (bank or credit) card
  • kortilla with a card (adessive)
  • vai or (in questions)
  • käteinen cash
  • käteisellä with cash (adessive)
  • lähteä to leave, to depart
  • lähtee leaves
  • saapua to arrive
  • saapuu arrives
  • miltä from what/which (ablative)
  • raide, raiteet rail
  • raiteelta from rail (ablative)
  • tässä here
  • lippunne your tickets
  • matka, matkat trip, journey
  • hyvää matkaa have a nice trip

VR

The Finnish railway company is called VR. It is completely state-owned and relatively reliable. You can take a look at their website here: https://www.vr.fi/cs/vr/fi/etusivu

By the way, Duo's cousin appears in the sleeping cars of VR:

Harjoitus 1

Vastaa kysymyksiin. - Answer the questions.

  • Why are Kaisa and Yvonne going to Iisalmi?
  • Why do they get their tickets at half price?
  • How is Kaisa paying for the tickets?
  • When will the train leave?
  • When will the train arrive in Iisalmi?
  • From which rail will the train leave?
  • How do you say "Have a nice trip" in Finnish?

Let me know what you thought about the lesson. Should you have any questions or suggestions, please comment below. Here is a link to the previous lessons: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/10579104

Hei!

October 9, 2015

18 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/widle

Read and done, thank you. :)

Just a note: your sanasto doesn't include the word myyjä. But it isn't difficult to guess from the context. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zzzzz...

Sigh. I do no think there has been a single lesson, in which I would not have made a mistake or not forgotten something. Myydä = to sell; myyjä = the person who sells.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chirelchirel

A good time to teach a Finnish proverb then :D

Tekevälle sattuu. Means more or less: (Negative/unexpected/imperfect) things happen when you do stuff (as opposed to not even trying, when nothing happens).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/widle

I'd say that's natural. Don't worry about that. And thanks.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlQuzMar

Sorry for nitpicking, but did you intentionally omit the interrogative particle from "monelta"? You did introduce the particle in one of the previous lessons anyway.

For those confused: the standard language equivalent would be "moneltako", although in spoken language the particle "-ko" is often omitted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zzzzz...

Please, do not apologise - your question is a good one. I simply chose monelta, because I use it and because it ends with -lta (like the numbers in the answers to this question). I speak a dialect, so I knew it was a risky decision, but I had to choose something. Scarcerer pointed out in the comments of another lesson that both monelta and moneltako are used in spoken language, whereas milloin and mihin aikaan are more approapriate in written language.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlQuzMar

Yes, that's right - milloin and mihin aikaan are more traditional expressions. Moneltako is perfectly fine for prose or such when describing someones speech, but for general information and narration the latter ones are more formal and sound more precise, less colloquial. Agreed, good point.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/elizawieslawa

Hi, I want to ask about Kaksi lippua Kuopiosta Iisalmeen maksaa 49,80e. Why maksaa and not maksavat? Is using a singular verb the normal way with numbers+partitive?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zzzzz...

Hello! If the subject is not in the nominative the verb tends to be in 3rd person singular.

  • Minulle kuuluu hyvää.
  • Teillä menee hyvin.
  • Kolme paitaa maksaa sata euroa.

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/elizawieslawa

Oh, I see. Thank you. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/elizawieslawa

So, as I learn new things I go back to the old ones to ask questions. This time about Meillä on opiskelijakortit. Why the nominative and not the partitive?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zzzzz...

Oh boy. This one is going to be difficult to explain.

  • Meillä on opiskelijakortteja. We have an unknown amount of student cards. One person probably has more than one card.
  • Opiskelijakortit ovat meillä. We have those student cards we talked about earlier.
  • Meillä on opiskelijakortit. We each have one student card.

chi! Auta minua! :D


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/widle

So many options!

What about "We have some student cards (but probably not as many as we need)"? Could that be "Meillä on opiskelijakortteja" again?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zzzzz...

I think that would be Meillä ei taida olla tarpeeksi opiskelijakortteja. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chirelchirel

Or: Meillä on joitakin/jonkin verran/muutamia opiskelijakortteja.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/widle

Kiitos molemmille. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chirelchirel

Mari's examples are good. Normally people have only one student card, so to say, you both (all) have your student cards, you need to use nominative and plural. If you used singular, there would only be one card and that wouldn't be good, since everyone needs their own. If you used partitive, it would be said by someone who hands out the cards to students who have applied for them (though even that context feels a bit weird).

I wrote this somewhere in the lessons, but I'll write it again: When choosing the object you need to pay attention to several things (that natives notice intuitively and you will too, one day). I'm in a bit of a hurry, so I'll simplify things a bit.

  1. The partitive rules

  2. Is the meaning of the sentence negative? --> object in partitive

  3. or is the amount unspecified? --> object in partitive

  4. The verb

  5. does the verb require partitive or total object (I'm not sure if this is the correct translation for this) or can it be used with both? (There are rules for these, but I'm not going to write it all here.)

  6. The sentence (determines which of the total object cases to choose

  7. regular sentence --> genitive (accusative)

  8. object in plural--> nominative plural (accusative plural), note that you need to exclude the possibility of partitive object before you get here.

  9. weird looking structures --> nominative (accusative)

You can see that I don't use the term accusative as all this is easier explained without it. The only words that have a distinct accusative forms are the personal pronouns (minut, sinut...). So when the sentence calls for total object, use those.

So, in the sentence you were asking about,

  1. The meaning is not negative and the amount is not unspecified (as we can assume they are talking about specific cards)

  2. None of the rules for partitive verbs work here, so it's a total object.

  3. It's a regular sentence and plural--> nominative plural.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/elizawieslawa

Kiitos paljon chirel! That's a wonderful guide!

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