Yes, but they don't mean exactly the same thing. Saber = to know. Saberse (with the pronoun) = to know perfectly well. This expression is a bit a pleonasm with the "de memoria", but I guess it's the fixed form of the expression. Source= http://www.spanishdict.com/answers/154492/saberse-vs-saber
Wow....love that word "pleonasm"!!! At time I think I am learning as much English as Spanish. I am a native English speaker but basic understand of the fundamentals of grammar are weak. I have had to relearn the English while learning the Spanish.....great fun. Education certainly is wasted on the young!!!!!!
Pleonasm is actually a greek word. It comes from "πλεονασμός". There are so many english words derived from Greek that are rarely used. Such as : plethora, anathema, epoch, nomismatic, gnomon, idiosyncracy etc... That's nice with English. It has a such varient etymological sources of words. Predominantly it is a Germanic language (40%) with lots of Latin (25%) and Greek (15%) influences
I don't quite understand how these reflexive verbs work. When a verb becomes reflexive with the "se" ending, I thought it meant that the action is done and received by the same person, but it seems that some verbs that are reflexive, just changes meaning instead?
Yes torgrim1, you are absolutely right, sometimes the reflexive verb doesn't act reflexively, sometimes its just about the meaning change.
Examples to be had here:
(scroll down to: Meaning Changes )
(scroll down to: meaning changes )
'Se' has an accent on the 'e' in this sentence, which means "I know", the 'yo' conjugation for 'saber'. "Se" without the accent is used with reflexive verbs. I'm still working on my reflexive verb knowledge.. it gets a bit confusing.
ple·o·nasm ˈplēəˌnazəm/Submit noun the use of more words than are necessary to convey meaning (e.g., see with one's eyes ), either as a fault of style or for emphasis.
Thank you for that word, pleonasm. That's a new one for me. (And something I'm guilty of all the time.)
I would give you a Lingot if I were not on my phone and lack the ability. The Spanish information was good, but it is very rare in any forum like this that I have to resort to my dictionary for English. Pleonism is a great word! Perhaps I never knew it because I might have found it self accusatory as I have been known to be Pleonistic (??) Hows that. A new word learned and perhaps even one made up.
It's "pleonasm" and "pleonastic", not "pleonism" and "pleonistic". Wouldn't want you to learn a new word incorrectly right off the bat. :) By the way, it's a new word to me, too! I had to look it up.
You are correct. Thanks for the correction. I was initially surprised at the error because I had just looked it up. But I do all my Duo work on my smartphone which has the SwiftKey multilingual keyboard. My keyboard kept trying to correct to pleanasmo which is the Italian word for pleanasm, and I guess I overcorrected to get back to English.
At first i saw neoplasm. Which if you look at both definitions have surpisingly common themes. Great word, ta.
Why doesn't duo give the solution as ' i know it perfectly well by heart?
Probably because 'know it perfectly well' and 'know it by heart' mean the same thing. I don't completely understand why the ' me' is in there, but it must add something. "Lo se" = 'I know it.' "De memoria" = 'by heart' or 'perfectly well'
"De memoria" can mean "by heart", so I think "I know it by heart" would be a good translation here. It was accepted by DL.
Yo being the subject simply is there for emphasis as in ' i know it, but maybe you don't.'
Confusingly, when I clicked 'me' by accident, it told me the translation of 'me' is 'I had a jacket made'. Um.
to know "by heart" is the English idiom. Since it is an idiom, it doesn't necessarily follow tight grammatical rules, and has to be remembered by itself. ("By brain" would probably be closer to the actual intent!). So questions about direct translation don't apply with idioms. We just have to learn them "by heart."
Take another example which appears on Duolingo - the idiom "out of sight, out of mind." In Spanish it is "ojos que no ven, corazon que no siente." We do not translate it word for word, rather we take the Spanish idiom and translate it to the English idiom. Try to see it as fun.
ok,than know something by heart could means "by intuition, feeling".. it's all about semantic ?
For a moment I thought it was just me! I couldn't understand how anyone came up with the word "heart".
To all users of this page: Most languages have two verbal voices: active and passive. However, some languages, such as ancient Greek, has another voice which is called 'medium' (or intermediate) that uses the passive forms, but the meaning is not passive. That 'medium' voice is used to mean that the speaker has a strong interest in the result of the action, beeing it executed by himself or by another person. In the present case, the interest in the action (to know by memory=saber de memoria) is not expressed by a 'medium' (intermediate) VERBAL voice, but by the objective pronoun 'me' when we would all expect the use of 'yo' (subjective form). I am not a Spanish native speaker and do not know how Spanish grammarians call that syntax but that is the way I see it and my opinion. I hope I have helped. Greetings. December 03, 2014.
Me too. it's getting harder to tell when they want literal translations and when they want the idiom, and even then which idiom.
"Conocer" would be used if you were talking about a person, rather than "ser". I'm not sure if there's a corresponding phrase using conocer though, other than saying "lo conozco muy bien".
Conocer is used when you know (are familiar) with people or places, and saber is used when you know facts. To say "I know it by heart" is implying that you know something really well.
*OP: You don't know someone by heart, you know facts or information by heart. Therefore, it cannot be "him". :)
I don't think you can substitue "by intuition" or "by feeling" in this case, though it would be nice since "heart" refers to feelings, metapahorically. But "to know by heart" is meant in English strictly that you have memorized something (thus "de memoria" in Spanish). The idioms don't always seem to make sense (literally), and knowing the history of their origin would be interesting. But they just have to be taken for what they mean, memorized as a complete phrase and not as individual words to be dissected.
yes i know it is like "play it by ear".. or "turn a blind eye" .. i know that idioms can't make sense literally . Thanks for explain
what does the reflexive (?) me add to se? What is the difference between se and me se?
"Se" (without the accent) is reflexive, but it has other uses. One is the pure reflexive (action upon the self). Another is the passive (se dice - it is said...), another is in verbs that simply use that form automatically (quejarse), another is in the sense of completion (comerse, which means "eat up" or "eat completely" as opposed to comer, which just means "to eat."). There are one or two others I think, but this is the source of some of the confusion in the comments posted.
Is there a reason "I have it memorized" is wrong? Because literally, this is "I know it by memory" which, in English, is pretty much memorized.
If think the reason is because "de memoria" is an idiomatic expression and "by heart" too. To know by heart is better than only memorize, it's too memorize perfectly, both expressions are colloquial.
Same question. Why the ME? Why not "Yo lo sé de memoria"? Hope somebody can shed some light on this. Thanks
I don't think this is reflexive. The direct object and indirect object are different.
No. It's an idiomatic expression that doesn't exist in Spanish as far as I know. "por corazon" has no meaning in Spanish, but you can say "saber al dedillo" =saber de memoria (colloquial expression), though I don't know what a dedillo is, if someone knows ...
Thanks Itsmesd. dedo (finger) ->dedillo (fingertips.
Funny, in French, both expressions exist, Savoir par cœur ( know by heart) and Savoir sur le bout des doigts (know at the fingertips)
"saber al dedillo" =saber de memoria, hasta los detalles más pequeños, but if you can say fingertip search (meticulous search)
Maybe I can say fingertip know or fingertip knowledge.
Is this possible?
I don't get where the word "know" is in this sentence. Me lo sé.... Me, it, myself...by heart
macie, nishul, greg, and klgdarwin: the first person singular of the irregular verb saber is sé (with accent). Se without an accent means one or oneself. Sé (with accent) means "I know".
Thanks....good 'ol Google translate doesn't seem to know the accent means sé means I know......stills thinks it's BE
The verb saber is irregular - sabo doesn't exist, and 1st person sing. is 'sé' with an accent.
How would I use this idiom with both reflexives in 3rd person? "My children know it by heart." Would it be "Ellos les lo saben a memoria?"
To know some "by heart" is an English idiom which is the most common way to express the idea of knowing something from memory. This sentence literally means I know it from memory. It does imply many repeated experiences or the act of memorizing it, so it is different from saying you remember it. I do believe the more literal translation of by memory is accepted. Heart in Spanish is corozón and is not reflected in the Spanish. I do not believe that Idiom translates well.
I was only able to choose the words that they gave me, and I guessed right, but it would make much more sense to have the literal meaning there instead of the idiom, no? Idioms are the absolute last thing I care about when learning a new language. I'd rather learn the actual words first. Either way, thanks for the clarification.
audio is too poor. I couldn't hear if it was a "lo" or "no" and I got it wrong...
Are you confused by the English or the Spanish? The Spanish seems straightforward. It literally says I know it from memory. In other words you remember a whole text without having to refer to the written version. You have memorized it. The English is an idiom. To know something by heart is to have memorized it. It can certainly mean that you intentionally memorized it, like the lines from a play you are in. But quite often when people say this the implication is that they have heard it so many times that they know it by memory like the chorus of that hit song that plays on the radio every 10 minutes.
In the old past, French believed that the people's memories were in the heart.
How ridiculous. I translated it in my head exactly, but didnt type that answer because I thought DL would show wrong, so I wrote "I know it from memory". Of course it instead marked that wrong!
this is a disgrace. My answer should've been correct. i put "I know by memory"
Duo's concept is common for common. Although by heart is idiomatic, it is a standard idiom used in preference to by memory by a good percentage of the English speaking world. It is important to learn when idioms translate and when they don't. Many idioms do translate for a variety of reasons. But if you learn this as the translation for by heart you will be better off when you are talking because you won't hesitate when you think by heart. If you would normally say by memory, that's easy because it is a direct translation. I know from struggling with conversational Spanish that everything sounds rather idiomatic to me and I am always wondering if something would work. Other people may be better at this then I, but often I don't think of the obvious, non idiomatic sentence easily.