Translation:The guests are showing the kitchen to a man.
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Both "The guests are showing a man the kitchen" and "The guests are showing the kitchen to a man" should be accepted.
Chances are you made a typo, but without seeing exactly what you wrote, it's impossible to point out what it was.
It actually means "They are showing to a man the kitchen." and yet they mark that one wrong. For english "shows a man the kitchen" either way works for me. Although to a man is kind of stuffy. It appears that Duo gets as confused as we do with all this flip flopping, and gets it wrong too.
But, If one always places Dative receiver first, and the noun object last in German:
Dative receiver einem Mann, einer Frau einem Kind einer Katze, etc first, and noun object. die Küche", "eine Katze", einen Apfel ein Kleid, etc. in that order, it is always marked right, as also says Duo's lesson information. ex: Die Gäste zeigen einem Mann ein Kleid.*
In English they conversely will, the noun object first, "the Kitchen", "a cat", "an apple", "a dress", etc. and the dative receiver last, "to a man", "to a woman", "to a child", "to a cat" always mark that right. ex: "The guests show a dress to a man."
But, mixed modes, in both German or English, they (Duo) sometimes mark a response as wrong. And, I don't understand why. Die Gäste zeigen ein Kleid einem Mann, for example could be marked wrong. but, the English would then be shown as " The guests show a man a dress.", or perhaps I answer, "The guests show to a man the dress." They're inconsistent... and I think when translating to English either "a man" or "to a man" is acceptable English. I have no doubt that for German. it is expected einem Mann, perhaps there are exceptions for maybe... (perhaps with definite articles) Die Gäste zeigen einem Mann das Kleid., which also begs the question would Die Gäste zeigen ein Kleid dem Mann. as most of the examples used, use indefinite articles. Duo promises more complicated example lessons in the future, it's best to get things right, now. So for this section, I'll just stick to the standard form that's always right. "The guests show a dress to a man." Die Gäste zeigen einem Mann ein Kleid. and leave out the "The guests show to a man a dress." or "... show a man a dress..." and Die Gäste zeigen ein Kleid einem Mann.
I use this sentence only as an example that is NOT in the lesson to make the point.
Yes. The dative object always comes before the accusative object if the latter is a noun. If the accusative object is a pronoun, it will always come before the dative object. Ex.: ich gebe sie der Frau ('ich gebe der Frau die Zeitung' with 'sie' standing for 'die Zeitung').
Because Zeitung is feminine -- so you refer back to it with the feminine pronoun sie "it".
If you had given the woman a book (das Buch, neuter), you would have referred back to it with es "it". If you had given her an article (der Artikel, masculine), you would have referred back to it with ihn "it".
The usual word order is Dative before Accusative when they are nouns, but it is not true that it is always that way. You can emphasize an indefinite Dative which is newer information by putting it after the definite Accusative. For example, It is a child that she is showing the lamp to rather than to an adult as we might expect. Here, every new guest is probably being shown the kitchen and now that the host is busy the guests are showing a man the kitchen.
I am really struggling to understand all the rules for word order. Just when I think I am getting to grips with it a contradiction to the rule I have just grasped comes flying along! In this sentence we have 'einem (indirect) followed by die (direct)' whereas I have not five minutes ago been instructed that [definite phrase] precedes [indefinite phrase], the examples being 'der Hund gibt DEN Apfel EINEM Mann' and 'der Hund gibt DEM Mann EINEN Apfel'. What am I missing now that produces a sentence with EINEM Mann preceding DIE Kuche?
I have not five minutes ago been instructed that [definite phrase] precedes [indefinite phrase], the examples being 'der Hund gibt DEN Apfel EINEM Mann' and 'der Hund gibt DEM Mann EINEN Apfel'.
That's not a rule ("it SHOULD be this way"); it's just a possibility ("it CAN be this way").
The neutral word order is to have the indirect object before the direct object, if both objects are noun phrases.
(If one of the objects is a pronoun, that will always come first, e.g. Ich gebe dir einen Apfel. with indirect object pronoun first and Ich gebe ihn dem Mann. with direct object pronoun first.*)
So here we have Die Gäste zeigen einem Mann die Küche. with neutral word order for a statement "The guests are showing a man the kitchen."
Die Gäste zeigen die Küche einem Mann. would also be grammatically possible but would emphasise the einem Mann -- "It's a man that the guests are showing the kitchen to (not a woman)."
Thankyou for your swift reply, it's like being thrown a life jacket as I flail about in the Grammar Sea. I was given an English sentence to translate and I used the [def] then [indef] order and was told I was incorrect. The emphasis makes sense but in print it's a little difficult to know where that may be without context. Whilst the discussions are a great source of information and help, they can also cause difficulties when you get 'interpretations' of grammar/rules/logic or partial explanations but I shall soldier on...
Yes, in this case you can.
Generally, the German rule is to have the indirect object before the direct object if both are noun phrases (like here), so die Gäste zeigen einem Mann die Küche would be the neutral word order.
On the other hand, there's also a tendency for new material (with indefinite article) to come at the end of the sentence, and since here the indirect object is indefinite and the direct object is definite (and thus old / known), die Gäste zeigen die Küche einem Mann would also work.
But not in general! If the man had been mentioned previously and thus needed the definite article, then only die Gäste zeigen dem Mann die Küche would work; die Gäste zeigen die Küche dem Mann would sound unnatural to me. And die Gäste zeigen eine Küche dem Mann is pretty much unacceptable to me: not only is the indirect object noun phrase after the direct object noun phrase, but the indefinite object is not at the end where it would like to be. That one really has to be Die Gäste zeigen dem Mann eine Küche.
Are you using a mobile app to learn?
There are tips and notes for each unit which explain the grammar, but for now, they're only available on the website. So if you aren't already using those, I'd recommend dropping the mobile app (or only using it for revision) and using the Duolingo website to learn instead, so that you can read the tips and notes before each new group of lessons.
Because einem Mann is in the dative case, he can't be the subject, the one doing the showing; instead, he is the "recipient" of the showing: the person who gets the kitchen shown to him.
die Gäste and die Küche could both be either nominative or accusative, so theoretically either of those could be the subject.
In practice, though, the subject generally comes either at the beginning or right after the verb, not at the end, so die Küche is unlikely to be the subject. Also, the verb form zeigen shows that the subject must be either first person plural ("we") or third person plural ("they"). So only die Gäste can be the subject.
That means that die Gäste must be in the nominative case as the subject, die Küche in the accusative case as the direct object (the thing shown), and we had einem Mann in the dative case as the indirect object (the experiencer).
Thus, the guests are showing a man the kitchen / the guests are showing the kitchen to a man.
why are the guests showing anyone the kitchen?
Surely it would be the host who is showing a guest the kitchen
If these examples do not reflect real life it may as well be the cat who shows people around the rules for German are baffling and even attempting to learn them is very discouraging
“Welcome, friends! Okay, now that I have shown you around, I have to run upstairs to get something. This party is getting bigger than I expected. Can you show that fellow where the food is?”
This is Duolingo showing us that we can tell who is showing whom, strictly by the Accusative and Dative forms. If they always use the expected forms, then we are not going to catch that as well. Duolingo is checking if we are awake. It is so easy to fall asleep doing rote memorization. Don’t give Duolingo any ideas, they just might have the cat show people around!
Duolingo is still not accepting "The guests are showing the man the kitchen". This is the correct translation based on the DO / IO rule. This whole Dative lesson is full of inconsistencies that do not adhere to the rules. I understand that you can place the DO before the IO at times for emphasis reasons, but it should still accept the traditional IO first rule based on two nouns being used. Someone please report this, as it is interfering with my rhythm.
Duolingo is still not accepting "The guests are showing the man the kitchen". This is the correct translation based on the DO / IO rule.
Is it? Why do you think translating einem Mann with "the man" should be accepted?
einem Mann is indefinite but "the man" is definite.
"The guests are showing a man the kitchen." is one of the accepted translations.
If it was not accepted for you, I don't know what might have happened. A link to an uploaded screenshot would be helpful here.
Duolingo should accept both translations as I indicated above.
As far as I can tell, it already does.
This can be a real problem if your mobile touch keyboard is larger than most, as stated above, it could be on the third line, but with no scrolling on the mobile app, it may not show up especially if your keyboard is larger than normal. I have this issue on my mobile app. Your keyboard like mine, may be an exception, it's because of the keyboard app I use, which allows international symbols, cursor arrows, and a couple of other nice abilities for typing. The only issue is that makes it larger, and some things there is just not enough room to see everything on the screen with that.
I do use portrait. The issue for me is that my keyboard works by reducing the text box size, and usually the words all appear at the bottom, I use Swiftkey, available on Google play. I sometimes have to scroll the text box; but, that doesn't work well unless I keep my finger on the text while I scroll down to hold the text where it can be seen, otherwise it's off screen.
I'll personally try to close the keyboard to see if that works; but mostly I now just use the web based app. The thing is, I also like to be able to read the tips on the phone app because they offer different, and sometimes better tips.
Either way, I do have workarounds, the pain is that a full sized keyboard works faster for typing the German and I prefer to use the web now.
But, you're right, closing and reopening keyboard, especially when it's not needed to click the bubbles might be the best option, and it should automatically reopen on the next lesson. I'll give that a try but the keyboard, for me, rarely interferes unless the sentence is really long. I could just turn off the cursor arrows visibility option for the keyboard; but it's so handy for editing.
I wish the voice to text worked on the web. And I wish that my phone app would recognize spoken German words when typing as well as English. (that it doesn't makes for some strange words) It does allow for multiple language, but that's only for spellcheck; Problem is Google voice only allows one primary interpretive language for voice to text, unless the click to speak button is showing.
At least my Swiftkey keyboard recognizes German spelled words, over time, that's really helpful for spelling. Removing a misspelled German word is as easy as press and hold on suggestion to delete. Swiftkey has a lot of useful features... I just wish it could understand spoken German all the time, voice to text. It only does that if a click to record voice button is available which isn't there for a type the answer question.
I know this almost sounds like a plug for my keyboard; but, I have no vested interest in the company; it's just a great keyboard, if not overly large at times.
On the web version of Duolingo, there are tips and notes. Click on the far left tab which shows circles for lessons (used to be “Home” tab), click on lesson, then click on lightbulb for Tips and Notes.
The indefinite article “ein” can change endings to match the gender (masculine, neuter or feminine), the number (singular or plural) and the case (Nominative, Accusative, Dative or Genitive) of the noun it describes. The definite article does too. Adjectives do also, plus they are also affected by whether the noun has a definite article , an indefinite article or possessive pronoun, or no article and no possessive pronoun in front of it.
Here is a site with a great explanation of cases and a table for “ein”: https://www.thoughtco.com/the-four-german-noun-cases-4064290
Here is an excellent resource to get a declension table or conjugation table for any word:
I think they show up as adjectives, and use those rules for adjective declension endings. Here's a link I use.
Just scroll down a bit and you can see the table with all the possible article choices, definite article, indefinite article, and no article. (einer, einem, einen; eine; and eines show up under indefinite articles!) After one studies that table for however long it takes, it's easy to see the patterns; and you will have to learn when to use them. It does and doesn't cover the use of Dies, Dieser, Diesen, Diesem; Diese and Dieses as the first word in a sentence; but the difference is in knowing which to use for masculine, and sometimes feminine; I haven't found a definitive source on those.
This page has also proved helpful: https://www.germanveryeasy.com/adjective-declension This page covers, at the bottom of the article, some of the rules for when more than one adjective appears.
One complaint for Duo... on my web screen, user names are now under the flags and can't be read on the web based app. This is only a recent problem. Started with the last Microsoft update FWIW. If I refresh the page, they turn to normal unless I leave a comment, then they overlap.
Thanks, I'll certainly do that. And here I always had to search for help to make a bug report, only to find out it's at the bottom of every screen. [facepalm]
After I added this post, it showed up again... and just as I had the thought... 'oh good, I can report it...' the screen corrected itself. Woo Hoo... may be fixed already... or at least a workaround until it can be fixed right. :-)
:-( Only to have it show up again...
"The guests show the kitchen to a man" (Duo says it is wrong)
"The guests show the kitchen to a man" is one of the accepted translations.
Did you report "my translation should be accepted"? (I see no report from today.)
Do you have a screenshot showing that translation being rejected? (If so, please upload it to a website somewhere, e.g. imgur, and tell us the URL of the image.)
No, I didn't think to report it. There have been many instances where, for example: I go/I am going, or he runs/he is running, or she drinks/she is drinking there is a 50/50 chance of picking the one that Duo says is correct. It gets frustrating trying to figure them out. Unless there is yet another unique little German grammar rule that I don't understand, I've always been taught that something like "the guests are showing" and the guests show" are the same thing. Yet other questions following that one have agreed that both answers are correct, including the "show/are showing" answer. I will consider reporting issues like this in the future. Thank you
There have been many instances where, for example: I go/I am going, or he runs/he is running, or she drinks/she is drinking there is a 50/50 chance of picking the one that Duo says is correct.
It should accept both translations, not just one, in such cases -- where the verb allows both forms.
(So, not something like "I am having a dog" as that would imply giving birth to one or eating one, rather than owning one.)
I will consider reporting issues like this in the future.
Taking screenshots showing your answer and uploading them somewhere is also a great idea if you want to ask why something is not accepted.
I often wonder if the persons setting the sentences is a native English speaker.
And I sometimes wonder whether the person who entered a given sentence is a native German speaker....
The sentences have been written over a period of years by a number of people -- some better and some worse at English and German.