The only true exception is that German is full of exceptions.
Indirect object before direct object is a tendency. Said tendency may be overcome by other, conflicting word order tendencies or a decision by the speaker/writer to deliberately change the word order to change emphasis.
Dealing with Duo, you will find most examples conform to structures where tendencies do not overwhelm each other because Duo wants to be able to mark answers correct or incorrect. Thus indirect before direct works on most but not all Duo examples.
Your point about the pronoun reversing the customary word order is true but only if the direct object is a pronoun. If the indirect object is a pronoun, then the tendency to put indirect before direct remains in place. Of course, there is that conflicting tendency to put pronouns before nouns but hopefully Duo won't put students in a position of having to guess which one takes priority in any given sentence.
Actually, I've been playing around, and Duolingo takes all orders - including "einem Kind zeige ich meinen Schuh" and "meinen Schuh zeige ich einem Kind." As long as the verb is the second part of the sentence, they're legal - but I don't know how uncommon they are or how strange they'd sound to a German.
But as a native English speaker, I'll stick with the indirect object-direct object order -- easy to translate from English to that order, and more likely to understood when I get the endings wrong.
If the indirect object is a pronoun, then the tendency to put indirect before direct remains in place.
I am not a native speaker but I think your statement could be misleading to some learners. If I am not mistaken, if both indirect and direct objects are pronouns, then the tendency (or clear rule?) is to put the direct object before the indirect.
The best way to remember it (if you haven't got a handle after two months, which I'm sure you have) is to break it down and think: The direct object is the object that is DIRECTLY affected by the verb, i.e. I kick --the ball.-- And the indirect object is often the destination of the direct object i.e. I kick the ball --to my friend.--
Hopefully this can help others if you didn't need it :)
I agree. Especially for those learning German for the first time, or for whom the last time was decades ago... And it wasn't easy then either. All the -ems, -ers, and -ens are a pain. As are the seins, deins, meins, etc. that "need" those endings to denote direct & indirect objects. My brain is already full.
Schuh is the object (accusative case)
Schuh is also masculine
Mein in this example should be considered a possessive adjective. It isn't used as mine. It is used as my to modify a noun. As such, it takes the gender and number of the noun it modifies.
The masculine accusative ending form is meinen.
Accusative case = ......den, die, das, die.......in masculine, feminine, neuter, plural order. When used as a possessive adjective as it is here, mein conforms to that rule.
It depends on which native language you're coming from.
For example, mine is Egyptian Arabic and these concepts are not foreign to me at all, on the contrary having a grasp of grammatical cases and inflection is very important in Modern Standard Arabic esp. when authoring any piece of literature or journalism.
So, I feel kind of home when dealing with German but I think that my initial take on German that it's bit difficult in that regard than MSA since you usually only deal with these convoluted grammatical rules (Which are btw more stringent and far reaching) when writing only unlike German that apparently expects to observe these rules even in the spoken language.
Always remember, Deutsche sprache, schwere sparche
I am a native speaker of American English; I will give my opinion. "To" doesn't fit where you are putting it; I think "to" assumes that the object which is being said to be being shown (in this case "to" the "child") has already been taken up / referred to. It has to do with word order - word order matters in English.
- Example of an acceptable formulation: "I show my shoe to a child." What is being shown ("show my shoe")? The shoe. Who is the shoe being shown to ("a child") ? A child.
- Example of an unacceptable formulation: "I show to a child my shoe." What is being shown ("I show _ ? _ to")? _ ? _. Who is _ ? _ being shown to ("a child")? A child.
I am not a professional, so maybe this is an unprofessional way of explaining it; but, basically, the word order is unacceptable.
I think that incorrect English word ordering should still count as a correct answer as long as it shows that you've understood the German correctly.
Remember that Duo is a machine. It can match answers to lists of acceptable responses but it doesn't actually understand English or German.
If you want more flexibility or lenience, I recommend that you get a human teacher.
Adding incorrect English to the list of responses is not something we do (for starters, our job would never be done; you'd be surprised at the variety of mistakes that get reported).
Nothing wrong with altered word ordering in English most of the time. All you have to do is insert the correct punctuation to make it grammatically correct.
But Denis238941PLUS doesn't have the correct punctuation included in his arrangement. I assume that is because he isn't aware that his word order is non standard and the sentence needs some kind of adjustment in order to leave it as it is.
His word order is not incorrect. His failure to include the proper punctuation for that particular word order is an error. Had his answer been accepted he would not know that it isn't correct as written.
However, all that being said, even with correct punctuation the sentence is unwieldy and is an attention stopper. The listener's attention is diverted from the content to the speaker's manner of delivery.
Yes, it is.
- you forgot to capitalise the nouns Kind and Schuh
- mein is the wrong form of that word, because Schuh is masculine and is in the accusative case here (being the direct object of the verb zeigen), so it has to be meinen. mein could be either neuter accusative (wrong gender) or masculine nominative (wrong case) or neuter nominative (both).
It depends on the grammatical case (nominative, accusative, dative or genetive) and the grammatical gender of the noun (feminine, masculine or neuter). Masculine indefinite articles are in nominative form "ein", in accusative form "einen", in dative form "einem" and in genetive form "eines". Feminine indefinite articles in the same order are "eine", "eine", "einer" and "einer". For neuter indefinite articles it's "ein", "ein", "einem" and "eines".
"I show my shoe to a kid" is ok, so, why not "I show to a kid my shoe" ? I know "I show a kid my shoe" is correct, but I don't understand why not with the "to". (In French, we could reverse, as here, but keeping the "to" - which is "à" : "Je montre ma chaussure à un enfant" / "Je montre à un enfant ma chaussure". Even if the second is more written than spoken.)
if the dative is activated does that mean the accusative will also activate?
No, not necessarily. You can have sentences with dative but no accusative, e.g. ich helfe dir "I help you" (helfen requires the dative) or ich schreibe meinem Vater "I am writing (to) my father", where the accusative object (e.g. "a letter") is not required.
First of all, the word "does" does not fit into that question. There should be the word "is", because the word it's referring to is an adjective ("equivalent"). "Does" should be paired with a verb.
To answer your question, it is equivalent to "to a child", but I'm not sure about "for a child". I think this is the more common structure for a sentence like this. The reason is probably the tendency to put the indirect object before the direct object. The indirect object here is "a child" and the direct object is "my shoe".
Why "meinen" and not "mein"?
- Schuh is masculine
- and the direct object of the verb zeigen (it's the thing that is being shown)
- so it has to be in the accusative case
- thus you need masculine accusative meinen before it
mein would be masculine nominative (wrong case for the use in this sentence), neuter accusative (wrong gender), or neuter nominative (both wrong).
That's not necessary because the recipient is an indirect object preceding the direct object. However, changing the order into "I am showing my shoe to a child" would be correct. Also, the word order in that second sentence is wrong, because it's an unfinished statement, not a question. It should begin with "why did they not..."
Why is it "meinen" schuh
It isn't. It's meinen Schuh with a capital S on Schuh.
The verb zeigen has two objects here:
- a direct object (the thing that gets shown) in the accusative case
- an indirect object (the "recipient" of the showing) in the dative case
Thus you have einem Kind in the dative case (the child sees the shoe that I am showing it), and meinen Schuh in the accusative case (the shoe is what is being pointed at or being handed around).
meinem Schuh would be dative case -- having two dative objects would not make sense here ("I am showing to the shoe to the child"??).
And schuh with a small s is simply wrong.
I know that "einem Kind" is new information, but is "meinen Shuh" also new information? Does it behaves like indefinite articles or like definite articles? I already know that when you have a"definite article in the accusative object and an indefinite article in the dative object it´s needed to put dative at last because it´s new information, so it´s more important.
- I understand the indirect object direct object hierarchy. Then i also came across that
- if any of the two is pronoun then it takes the precedence. By then shouldn't it be "Ich zeige meinen schuh einem Kind " .
P.s : 3. also from the objects taking definite indefinite articles, thr definite would come before the indefinite object , implying "known information following the unknown information" .
Hence by all that inference 2 and 3 , won't the "Meinen schuh" (my shoe- pronoun , known info though direct obj) precedes the a kid (indirect object but no pronoun and unknown info taking indefinite article) ???
Yes, "my" is a possessive pronoun, but it isn't the object "shoe" is the object.
"my" is used here as a determiner, like if it was "einen Schuh"
For example: Ich zeige einem Kind einen Schuh. - I am showing a shoe to a child.
If there was a pronoun, like "es" then yes, that would come first:
Ich zeige es einem Kind. - I am showing it to a child.
Meinen... The 'N' means plural right?
mein inflects like ein and kein, so meinen is either masculine accusative (singular) or plural dative.
(Compare how den is masculine accusative singular or plural dative.)
Plural nominative/accusative would be meine like keine or die.
Showing someone your shoe in some languages means threatening to kick them, literally or figuratively depending on the culture and time period.
In modern Germany, I suppose this would mean that you threatened a child with corporal punishment even though it is probable the child would not believe you would actually kick them or do anything like that.
German grammar can be very difficult, but don't give up! Generally in these sentences, the dative noun goes first. As you can see Ich zeige 'einem Kind', which is the dative part because it is the indirect object, the one receiving the direct object or the 'accusative' one which is the shoe. Which is why it's meinen Schuh. To help, think of it like this.
(In order of Masculine, Feminine, Neuter, Plural) Nomative - der, die, das, die Accusative - den, die das, die Dative - dem, der, dem, den Genitive - des, der, des, der
I know it can be confusing, but this chart will help you determine the endings of the articles c:
Ilsav.R: In UK--English, it means how it sounds in a literal translation. Someone is showing their show to a child. I would suggest, looking at the number of comments and questions posted, it is an excellent sentence for demonstrating a particular point of German grammar.
Perhaps your post indicates that it is time for you to 'let go' or 'work-on' some past emotional trauma! ( Have a look at, https://www.oxfordmindfulness.org ).