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  5. "Der Sieg ist unser."

"Der Sieg ist unser."

Translation:The victory is ours.

January 6, 2013

26 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Beneficium

When the possessives are used as pronouns they never take endings?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Langohr_

Actually “unser“ is not a possessive here but the genitive form of the personal pronoun „wir“ (http://canoo.net/inflection/wir:Pron:Personal:1st:PL).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Beneficium

Ahh yes, for some reason I didn't consider that possibility at all back then. I suppose the mystery is solved, then. :) Thanks!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/margusoja

Hm, it seems that "unser" takes a myriad of possible endings: http://canoo.net/inflection/unser:Pron:Poss:1st:PL

Sorry, but I cannot explain the usage of them. This "attributive form" and "nicht attributiv form" I do not get yet. From one hand it should be "unser Verkäufer", but then there is a phrase "einer unserer Verkäufe" in the dictionary. http://www.dict.cc/?s=einer+unserer+Verk%C3%A4ufer ???


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Beneficium

AFAIK, the attributive form (very roughly speaking) is the possessive adjective which comes before a noun it modifies (e.g. unser Sieg war wunderbar). The non-attributive form seems to be the possessive pronoun form, which stands on its own (e.g. das Auto ist unseres). I don't know how to explain the 'einer unserer Verkäufer' (I suspect einer is being used in the non-attributive form, while unserer Verkäufer is a genitive plural, i.e. 'one of our sellers', but I'm not sure) neither the 'Der Sieg ist unser'. It should really be 'Der Sieg ist unserer' as far as grammar goes. But then again, I'm just a newbie. We really need a native's help.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/linguistkris

You are right. Say somebody was trying to steal a (grammatically masculine) item from you, or confusing theirs for yours, you could protest "Das ist unserer!" In the case of "Der Sieg ist unser", the attributive form is caused by this being a fixed expression (I guess -- native speaker intuition not being infallible ;)). "Der Sieg ist unserer" is perfectly grammatical,; it probably just wasn't uttered by some famous general a few centuries ago. ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/think.green

Wie linguistkris schon richtig schrieb, "Der Sieg ist unser!" ist ein feststehender Ausdruck im Deutschen. Er ist etwas altertümlich und wird von jungen Leuten normalerweise nicht mehr verwendet. Analog fällt mir nur das "Vater unser" (= Lord's Prayer) ein.

"Einer unserer Verkäufer" meint ausführlich "einer von unseren Verkäufern". Mit "one of our sellers" liegst du also vollkommen richtig! :-) Auch mit Genetiv Plural liegst du richtig. "Einer" ist Nominativ und zum Beispiel das Subjekt in dem Satz "Einer flog über das Kuckucksnest" (= One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest). Grammatikalisch vollkommen richtig ist es zu sagen "Einer unserer Verkäufer flog über das Kuckucksnest". Ich hoffe, ich komme wegen dieses Beispiels nicht in die Psychiatrie ... ;-) "Unserer Verkäufer" ist hier eine Ergänzung des Subjekts und bestimmt dieses näher. Weitere Beispiele für diesen Genetiv: "Das Gehalt unseres Verkäufers ist hoch." (The salary of our salesman is high.) "Das Gehalt unserer Verkäufer ist angemessen." (The salary of our salesmen is reasonable.)

Wenn ich den Link von margusoja zur Flexion von "unser" mir anschaue, wird mir schlecht. Übelste Erinnerungen an meinen viel zu langen Latein-Unterricht werden wach. Wie kann man sich etwas so Kompliziertes nur merken? Das ist eine Zumutung für jeden, der Deutsch lernen möchte! Ich hoffe, diese aufrichtige Meinungsäußerung führt jetzt nicht dazu, dass mein Account gesperrt wird und ich an unolingo.net verwiesen werde. ;-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/stevetanishita

So what would "Seig Heil" translate to?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zacwill

'Hail victory', I think. Though I'm not sure why the verb would come after the object.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/formagella

I think it's because the speaker used to yell Sieg and the crowd would answer Heil, or because it's an abbreviated form of Heil und Sieg (this says wikipedia, quoting some nazi guy).

Heil Hitler has the verb before the object like you said it should have.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GrasshopperPie

I wrote "Victory is ours." without the article because I think that is the more common expression in English. It was accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/captainmoha

Said Stewie clones army :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Summer.Breeze

Genau! XD Ich mag Stewie sehr. Er ist hübsch.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ludwigzhou

Should it be unserer?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OzrenIlic

Ni, it shouldn't. "Unserer" is dative form (before a feminine noun), and here is nominative.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/az_p
Mod

    But it's nominative, non-attributive (without a noun following it) so it should be unserer - but the top comments explain that it's idiomatic here.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/apedersen13

    What is the difference in sense between "der Sieg ist unser" and "der Sieg gehört uns"?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/linguistkris

    There isn't really a difference in meaning, rather in register/connotation. The former is more figurative.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sbmassey

    same difference as "the victory is ours" vs "the victory belongs to us"


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wibbleypants

    The English version should drop the article. It's a set phrase.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Uyterschout

    'The day is ours' should be accepted in the Shakespeare year.

    RICHMOND:

    God and your arms be praised, victorious friends, The day is ours, the bloody dog is dead.

    Richard III, Act 5, Scene 5


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GarrettMcC11

    God and Saint George!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/elilla.b

    Move out every Sieg!

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