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  5. "Auf dem Grund"

"Auf dem Grund"

Translation:At the bottom

October 30, 2015

35 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jacquie_Worley

If this is not accepted as "on the ground" then how do you say "on the ground"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

Auf dem Boden

Auf der Erde (especially if outside and it's actually on the earth, not on a floor inside a building)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Doctor-John

Unfortunately, Duo corrects "on the ground" to "at the ground," which makes no sense. There's no way to report an incorrect correction.

Your comments really save this exercise!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/stephensoldner

So does that mean that Grund means more something akin to 'ground level' rather than the ground as in the floor or ground (outside, like dirt/grass/etc.)? If not, I'm confused as to why 'Auf dem Grund' does not mean 'on the ground'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

Grund is used, for example, for the bottom of the sea (auf dem Meeresgrund) or for water generally (ich habe keinen Grund = I can't touch the bottom with my feet; I'm out of my depth in this water). Or perhaps for the bottom of a mine.

So, not really "ground level" but more "at the bottom".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

auf dem unteren Regal is good if there are just two shelves; "on the lower shelf" is a good translation.

auf dem untersten Regal would be "on the lowest shelf", i.e. the bottom-most of three or more.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Doctor-John

Wow, this answer is so helpful! It points to the assumption inherent in Google's translation of "on the bottom shelf" as "auf dem unteren Regal" that there are only two shelves and to my naive trust of Google and lack of German-language acuity in not immediately recognizing "unteren" as the comparative "lower," as opposed to the superlative "untersten" (lowest).

English grammar disallows using the superlative (lowest), when there are only two items. Presumably, German grammar also requires at least three items to use the superlative (unterst...).

However, in English one can say "the bottom shelf" for any number of shelves more than one. The question is: Does German have a single word that works for any number more than one?

The Oxford German Dictionary entry for the adjective "bottom" offers only "(lowest) unterst...; (lower) unter..."—which suggests that there is no single German word that works the way the English adjective "bottom" does.

Apparently, German expects the speaker to know whether there are 2 or more than 2. If not, the grammar seems to require "auf dem unteren oder untersten Regal."

There are a lot of differences like this between English and German. For example, English has "sibling" and "siblings," but German has only "die Geschwister" (pluarl). If there is only one sibling, German expects the speaker to use "Bruder" or "Schwester." If the speaker doesn't know or wants to avoid telling, then it's "Bruder oder Schwester." Ambiguity or uncertainty is sometimes easier to achieve in English. :-) Stereotypically, Germans are more precise.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/triklogl

Sorry but if here in this contextless sentence Grund means Meeresgrund, the first part Meer must not have been omitted! We are not in the ??brain?? of the course makers! Grund is as well Hintergrund, Untergrund, Grundstück, why not U-Bahn, U-Boot etc!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Doctor-John

stephensoldner, Consistent with mizinamo's comments here, "He lives on the ground floor" is "Er lebt am Erdgeschoss."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

im Erdgeschoss, nicht am Erdgeschoss.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Doctor-John

Vielen Dank. Manchmal denke ich auf Englisch, während ich auf Deutsch schreibe.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jacquie_Worley

Thanks. I thought maybe so.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DanKieselbach

I thought Erde was feminine?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

It is, that's why after auf describing a location we would use the feminine dative article der rather than masculine or neuter dative dem.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SharonNaor

so..

Auf dem Boden = on the ground Auf dem Grund = at the bottom

a bit evil I'd say.. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rb16fitness

The drop down menu under Auf includes 'on', yet 'on the round' was rejected!? :'(


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aaronheiss

This is because both 'on' in English and 'auf' in German each have multiple meanings, but while there's a lot of overlap, they don't overlap completely.

In other words, in many but not all cases, 'auf' does mean 'on'; and in many but not all cases, 'on' means 'auf'. This happens to be one of the cases in which 'on' and 'auf' do not have the same meaning.

Learning prepositions can be frustrating and confusing. I found it better to think of prepositional phrases, rather than individual prepositions. Unfortunately, I don't know of any resources that take that emphasis, other than just reading a lot of German and seeing what gets used. The good news is that, if you keep at it and don't overthink it, it'll happen.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Junge645479

Incredibly useful comment; from my experience already, the 'letting it happen' is true.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/louisxcypher

Why not ' For the reason ' ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

Because that would be aus dem Grund - different preposition.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MelissaMassacre

I thought "auf" meant "from"? But that wasn't accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

Perhaps you're confusing it with aus "from out of" ?

The basic meaning of auf is "on".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MelissaMassacre

Thank you for correcting me. I feel stupid now, I must have had a total dumb moment yesterday.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mentaculus

So why won't Duo accept "on the bottom"? Auf has a sense of "on top of" doesn't it?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SydneyBlakem

Duo gave me "at the ground" as an answer. Is this English?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Doctor-John

As you can see at the top of the page, Duo's preferred translation is "At the bottom," which is correct. Also, in the comments it's been pointed out that Duo has been responding to the incorrect answer "On the ground" with the suggestion "At the ground," which is not normal English. Unfortunately, there's currently no way to officially report an incorrect response to an incorrect answer.


[deactivated user]

    Grund has the meaning of ground (Boden), as well. One can just check it in DUDEN. The meaning of the sentence is rather vague, therefore rejection of the translation "on the ground" is rather arbitrary to my understanding.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Emre519314

    Could "on the basis" not work? As 'Grund' also means 'reason' or 'cause.'


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jnv1994

    "for the reason" not accepted? :O


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

    "for the reason" not accepted? :O

    Indeed.

    That would be aus dem Grund, not auf.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jnv1994

    Oh right. I must have mixed up auf Grund and aus diesem Grund


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/triklogl

    „auf dem grund“ ist genauso falsch und inexistent wie „on the ground“, also sollte es akzeptiert werden, zumal es hier die einzige Stelle in dieser App wäre, wo es um den Sinn geht! Dieser Sache wollte ich nunmal „auf DEN Grund“ gehen!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vjoz990083

    The sentence is wrong I have asked about that, because when you say [Auf den Grund] it is translate to [ At the bottom] ❗ But you can't translate [Auf dem Grund] to [At the bottom]❎


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bob973851

    ON THE GROUND!!!!! Or, why isn't "grund" reason?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Philip815032

    Surely it should be "On the ground"

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