https://www.duolingo.com/Michael_Tavares

Portuguese. BP and EP. Converging? Or further differentiating?

Olá.

I am level 12 on the Portuguese course, I am hoping to be able to be fluent in Portugal, but learning the BP Duo course because that's what there is.

My question is for native speakers, perhaps a younger European speaker will know best.

I know the two flavours of the language vary greatly, as I know that Brasil was settled a long time ago by Portuguese speakers, who then built a very multicultural society, adopted words from African languages and the languages of the indigenous peoples, plus they were largely isolated from European speakers for centuries.

My question relates to now. In the modern age, with mass communication, is there a trend for the languages to re-merge? Are 'Brasilianisms' becoming more used and accepted in Portugal?

Especially young Portuguese people, are they being influenced by Brazilian culture and adopting their mannerisms and ways of speech?

Here in NZ many young people are sounding more (USA)American, and older people lament it, but it is happening, but over time, these will become normal NZ English speech.

Is this happening in Portugal? Or is it being resisted by camões, is Portuguese, like French, being defended from foreign influence? If yes, how successful is it?

Are Portuguese friendly to Brazilian culture and language or snobby to it? Does this vary between ages and classes.

I guess this is a cultural as well as linguistic question, and there will be different answers, but is there an overall observable trend?

November 2, 2015

9 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/Joao1362

It is in no way like French defending itself from foreign influence, there have been attempts to bring the languages together, like the "new" standardization of European Portuguese spelling to somewhat match Brazilian spelling in some words, but they're still so different. I'd say that younger generations are most certainly being influenced by Brazilian mannerisms and overall culture. The usage of common slang words in Brazilian Portuguese is getting somewhat more acceptable here for younger people, in my opinion. The vast majority of people here still doesn't use those terms but I wouldn't classify it as snobby, I guess we just speak differently and we don't want to force anything :P But in my opinion the Portuguese are still overall very open to Br culture, like soap operas, music, tv shows/channels, etc. I hope it answers your question ^^

November 2, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/RabbitsRabbits

This matches my experience in Lisbon. People there like Brazilians and are accepting of them. It is lovely :) The attitude of the Spanish to North and South American Spanish speakers is completely different, in my experience, I might have been unlucky, but I found there was a lot of prejudice.

November 12, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Jamelloooo

Hi! My girlfriend is actually Portuguese and currently lives there. Hence the reason i'm learning Portuguese to better communicate with her family. I've asked my girlfriend before whether or not it matters if i learn Brazilian PT instead of EU PT. She say's that it doesn't really matter as the Portuguese speakers are a very warm and friendly people. She told me that they're really patriotic about their language and praises anybody who actually takes the time to learn it. I've visited Portugal before and back then I knew little to no Portuguese. Whenever I used simple phrases like "Obrigado" or "Bom dia" I got a very nice smile as they knew I wasn't native to their country but I was trying. I hope this answers a few of your questions! Happy learning!

November 3, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/JessicaRRamos

~~ Brazilian here~~

I just would like to say that I would not like to see the Portuguese people losing their accent or the way they sound, I just love that accent!

November 3, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Je.Suis.Napoleon

Nice ask. I am brasilian and would like to know, too.

November 3, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/josephkt

both accents are beautiful you can tell the differences right away in pronounciation

November 3, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/JohnnysBR

Like Joao said, some politicians have tried to 'unite' all the Portuguese dialects (Angolan, Portuguese, Brazilian and others) by signing international agreements like the 'Novo Acordo Ortográfico'. But the agreements are not going so well outside of Brazil. The Angolans, Portuguese and basically everybody else don't fulfill what was agreed.

The Angolans say this is a way of the Portuguese to 'colonize Angola culturally(?)' and they don't like it (even if they signed the deal) you also need to remember they only gained independence from Portugal in 1977

The Portuguese say nobody wants the agreement because they 'would lost their identity as a people' so nobody uses it, the newspapers, the writers, nobody. Another reason is that it created some weird things, like they say facto (fact) with a 'c' and they write it with the 'c', otherwise it would mean suit (fato). A fact in Portuguese* is fato - without the 'c' and so it is in the Agreement and that drives then crazy.

Brazil reprinted the dictionaries and books, when you make exams at school you need to use the new rules, the goverment, the news and the people also use the new rules so it's widespread here even though it has weird things for us like to write 'idéia' without the accent

Of course the problem is bigger than that, I'm probably missing a lot of things and being a bit biased but I don't want to go deeper because I'm busy

So finishing and giving my opinion

I don't want the new agreement, I don't like it. But I have already spend some bucks buying new dictionaries and also paying a teacher to learn the new rules because I need to use them at work so ya let it stay that way HUHUEHUEUEHUEUEHUEHE

Some sources I have used

https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acordo_Ortogr%C3%A1fico_de_1990 http://monografias.brasilescola.com/educacao/onovo-acordo-ortografico-lingua-portuguesa.htm http://falandoemliteratura.com/2010/01/20/o-novo-acordo-ortografico-em-portugal/ http://blog.opovo.com.br/portugalsempassaporte/e-nao-ha-acordo-ortografico-que-possa-impedi-lo/ http://www.opovo.com.br/app/opovo/vidaearte/2014/06/28/noticiasjornalvidaearte,3273816/o-acordo-ortografico-e-a-resistencia.shtml https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-ZGLTE5_3U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_DvxLxSYYs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kfU88IbpnA

*Nobody say Brazilian Portuguese in Brazil, that's weird LOL

November 3, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Ailuro.

You're wrong. "Facto" is written with a C since the letter is actually pronounced in Portugal. There's only a change in words whose letters are not pronounced, e.g. óptimo - ótimo and acção - ação. The C in "facto" is pronounced, therefore it doesn't change anything.

As for the use of the agreement, there is indeed some people who are against it for the reasons you mentioned, but it has been used more and more, including newspapers, books and it is in fact mandatory in schools. I myself have used the agreement for three years now and it's easy to adapt it; easier than people might think.

November 4, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Je.Suis.Napoleon

Yeah, you're right! And, the agreement isn't hard, but the people aways complaint about changes.

November 4, 2015
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