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  5. "There are birds in the tree."

"There are birds in the tree."

Translation:На дереве птицы.

November 3, 2015

60 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kpagcha

птицы на дереве. Why not?!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bright_flash

It'd be translated as "Birds are in the tree". :) "There is/are" construction doesn't have a specific counterpart in Russian, but the object has to be put to the ending of the sentence. An example: "На столе книга" means "There is a book on the table" and "Книга на столе" means "The book is on the table".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jenz114

A great explanation! I was under the impression есть is used for the "there is/are" construction. As I have yet to see есть used this way here, it has caused a bit of confusion.

For example - Там есть птицы.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/trajan2trajan2

На дереве есть птицы doesn't work here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sagitta145

It's correct, just less common for a statement without a context. Common for a question (На дереве есть птицы?) or emphasizing (Да, на дереве есть птицы).

Report if not accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jenz114

It seems that for this translation есть is optional.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kpagcha

sweet explanation


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/piguy3

A better translation would be "The birds are in the/a tree." What English indicates with articles, Russian often conveys with word order.

Already-known information comes at the beginning (often corresponding to definite articles), new information at the end (often corresponding to indefinite).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeffrey855877

You mean the subject (of the sentence = "birds"), not the object, has to be at the end of the Russian sentence, while it's usually at the beginning of the English sentence. The only grammatical object in the sentence is "tree", which is the object of the preposition "on" = на.

Technically, "there" is the subject, but it is more of a place-holder which is defined by the predicate "the birds", so at a grammatically order sentence is "The birds are there in the tree", although that changes the function of the word "there" somewhat.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shady_arc
Mod
  • 154

A more transparent English rewording of "There are birds in the tree" is "Birds are in the tree" (provided the intonation is right). I think, "there" indeed serves as a dummy subject, and some varieties of English even prefer singular agreement (i.e. ,"There's birds in the tree").

This sentence has no "object". Well, you have a noun "tree" in the prepositional phrase that serves as a place where stuff happens.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kvargman

There is no object in either of the sentences "Birds are in the tree" or "There are birds in the tree".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeffrey855877

What is nonsense?

Also, please make your comments in English. This course is for English-speakers to learn Russian from Duo, not from you and Google translate.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ElenaBessonova

потому что этот курс делали люди, которые сами плохо знают русский :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeffrey855877

And apparently ElenaBessonova doesn't know English at all. Apparently, she's a troll, because so far I've only seen negative, sniping comments by her. She adds nothing to the course, nothing to the community. Probably works for Putin and his cronies, too.

If I see more negative, useless comments by her, I'll report her to Duo and ask that she be blocked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/piguy3

False. Since you're presumably doing this course to work on your English, I'd advise you to look at this sentence as an opportunity to learn something about English rather than as fodder for criticism.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarineMachine

Would "На дереве есть птицы" be incorrect or sound too unnatural?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sagitta145

It sounds natural. It should be accepted if it's not now :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vegidio

It's answer is currently not accepted


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/piguy3

When would one or the other version be used?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sagitta145

If the stress falls on the word птицы, it's really the same. На дереве птицы. На дереве есть птицы.

If it falls on есть, it feels slightly different. На дереве есть птицы. It sounds like a contradiction to some previous statement/knowledge/etc that there were no birds in the tree. There are birds in the tree.

Otherwise really I don't feel much difference. Maybe there is difference, and somebody else can comment on it, but my perception ends here :D


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JanetGidle

Not yet. Glad to know it sounds right anyway.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MortiBiRD

Why do we have to use the preposition на and not в to translate this? I understand that на implies that the birds sit on the tree or on a branch of the tree, but the original sentence could also be understood as birds are literally in the tree (like within a hole in the tree). In second case it should be в or would it still be на?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sagitta145

Because this is how the grammar is in Russian. We say "on the tree" rather than "in the tree". Don't assume the sentence patterns in Russian are the same as in English.

"Птицы сидят на дереве" --> the birds are sitting in the tree, on the branches

"Птицы сидят в дереве" --> the birds are sitting inside of the tree, somehow in the trunk, inside of the wood (so sounds really weird, not a proper sentence)

Just a different pattern than in English. They don't always make sense. E.g. also in English one says "on the train" and not "in the train", even though physically the person is "in" the train car, and it's the same in Russian in this case - "на поезде"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MortiBiRD

This is exactly how I meant it. The problem was not the russian grammar, but the english example sentence, which could mean either "sitting on top" or "sitting inside the trunk". So from the context it would be clear to use either на or в but we have no context to make this clear, therefore I had to ask for clarification.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sagitta145

I really don't think "in the tree" means "in the trunk" in some science fictional way I described :) "In the tree" always means "on the branches" in English. At least I thought so... Native speakers?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/piguy3

I think it depends on the type of bird, e.g. https://www.thespruce.com/description-of-cavity-nesting-385193

Or is "in a hole in the trunk" sufficiently different from "in the trunk" that Russian wouldn't use "в" for this situation?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ArthurKock1

Putting aside the non-equivalent prepositions (thanks for that), it looks like you didn't understand what MortiBiRD was saying (maybe you did, but it doesn't look like it).

Suppose the birds were staying in a bird-hotel that was inside the tree truck. Then the birds are literally inside the tree. In English we would most definitely say that the birds are "in the tree". Are you saying that in Russian one should still say "on the tree" - "на дерево"?

In English, if birds are perched on a branch of a tree, we say "The birds are in the tree". If birds are staying in a bird-hotel literally inside a tree, then we say "The birds are in the tree, literally".

Also, regarding your example of "on the train" versus "in the train", honestly I think either way sounds normal.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jen90792

I've never heard anyone say 'in the train' in my life. It's always 'on the train'. And it sounds like Russian is the same with birds in trees. They're always 'on the tree', excepting bizarre situations or like biologists talking about hornbill houses or something.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SukhenduDa

why is it not в дереве птицы?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ArthurKock1

Based on the comments above, I believe it is because "в дереве" isn't the natural way to say that that a bird is in the tree. The natural way is "на дереве". I think it is ultimately just a convention.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sagitta145

На дереве means in the tree in the sense of, on the branches.

В дереве would mean in the trunk of a tree, inside a tree.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DominicMor664573

Should, 'там птицы на дереве' be accepted?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/piguy3

That means something like "There, the birds are in a tree." The sentence here is "there are" in the sense of existence as opposed to location.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sagitta145

Or "There are birds in the tree there". So, the first part is really the same except for the extra "there". Здесь птицы на дереве would have been "There are birds in the tree here". Simply На дереве птицы is "There are birds in the tree" without the specification where :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ruziskey2283

What are the rules for when you include "есть" and when you don't? If I were to say, "there are birds in the city", that would be translated as "в городе есть птицы", but saying, "there are birds in the tree" cannot be translated as "на дереве есть птицы"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rollydb

there are birds in the tree and the tree has birds means exactly the same thing,,, птицы на дереве (birds on tree) could mean EITHER since they mean exactly the same thing. stop trying to tell people differently,,,"oh that word order would translate to ~exact same meaning 1~ , not ~exact same meaning 2~. It's nonsense!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JanetGidle

There are birds in the tree _ commonly said. The tree has birds - never have ard it said. It would be understood ,but sounds strange. Part of the lesson is to learn as English speakers, that Russians say на дереве where English speakers say in the tree. Go with the meaning of the sentence which is most likely to be said. Sirry, but the tree has bircs sounds like tree has a disease called birds. Just sayin'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Evgeeeeny
Mod
  • 592

птицы на дереве - also correct


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/piguy3

I am under the impression that this course seeks to maintain a distinction between

  • На дереве птицы. — There are birds in the tree.
  • Птицы на дереве. — The birds are in the tree.

This helps English speakers understand the nuances of the basic word order.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/duolingoHepCat

I wonder if there is a reason why these words are so similar: дверь is door, and дереве is tree.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Madame-patate

Nightmare before Christmas.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Osophy

здесь птицы на дереве is it really false, if it is why ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sagitta145

Maybe because you add extra information with the word "здесь" which was not present in the English sentence.

Здесь птицы на дереве = There are birds here in the tree


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Osophy

Я понял ,Спасибо


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeffrey855877

In looking up this word and trying to get some other pronunciation of it, I noticed three forms of the word for "tree": дереве. деревo, деревa which seem at least to be neutrer and feminine genders, possibly even all three genders. I don't know what to make of that.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MortiBiRD

tree = дерево (Nominative, singular and as gender neuter). дереве is Prepositiv singular. дерева is Genitive singular (and its Nominative plural=trees; and its Accusative plural). To make it more enjoyable, there are even more inflexed forms.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeffrey855877

Thanks. The translator I was using didn't mention case at all. Time to find another translator for Russian, it seems.

I don't know whether the correct spelling I enter showed up on other displays. I removed the marks I'd used to make part of the text italic, and that seems to have changed the displayed spelling to the correct characters.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/piguy3

Italics for Cyrillic can differ a good deal from the non-italic forms, particularly for г, д, т and и.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AinaRodriguez

Is there any lesson where duolingo teaches only the alphabet and how each character sounds like it does in greek??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/piguy3

Not for Russian, no. As it happens, that part of the Greek course is actually not popular and will be substantially altered or eliminated with their new tree version.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Julesgarr

When would you use дереве or дерево?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NickLucky2

Where? - На дереве. What? - Дерево.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Eduardo688800

When do we use В or на?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ApocAlypsE007

На дереве есть птицы should be accepted, sounds more natural than the Duolingo suggestion


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/D4ni3lD

Here is also a sentence with "кошки на дереве". Why is it with cats different to birds?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DanyDin

Explain please that sentence


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sagitta145

Please specify what you mean by "explain" so that I can help you explain it. E.g. grammar, word order, meaning?

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