"Here are both your book and ours." In English, it is custom to place yourself at the end, e.g. "The girls and I..." "Yours and my..." etc. Making it incorrect because of Russian sentence structure, which is highly flexible, is baffling.
This English translation and a lot of the other ones in the comments are bizarre to me, and I'm a native speaker. I would never say most of them because they sound like nonsense.
The only sentence that I can think of that I would ever say that comes close is "Here are our books." The "...and yours" is redundant in English.
Also, my grammar may be slightly off, but another way that sounds more natural is, "Here is both your book and mine/my book." The combination of "our book" and "yours" just doesn't occur naturally in English, since "our" already includes both yours and mine. It would really be "Here is our book."
In this case, the "and yours" isn't redundant. The situation here is something like you're with your spouse and another couple somewhere and there are two books on the table. One of them belongs to you and your spouse, the other to the other couple. "Here is our book (referring to you and your spouse) and also yours (referring to the other couple).
The bigger problem that I have with it is the fact that the only accepted translation has a singular noun paired with a plural verb; it should be "our and your books are here" or "our and your book is here." I realize that doesn't reflect the Russian perfectly, but honestly, it's just a weird sentence to translate.
In English, you can pair singular nouns with a plural verb if there are multiple singular nouns listed. "The cat, the dog, and the goat are all here." My problem is that "My book and your book are both here" was not accepted.
Why would anyone say either sentence? 'Our books are here' or 'here are our books' are more natural. If you wanted to sound old, unsure of yourself, or slow you might use these sentences.
Sorry, what exactly is your problem? Firstly, "yours"="your book" in this context. Hence "our book and your book are here" - there are two books we are talking about here!
It all depends on the scenario, and here it's something like the two of us own one book and the two of them own one book, so "our book and your book" makes sense because the plural verb refers to the both of us and not the book, it's wrong to say "our and your book" because you are referring to both books at that point and would have to say "books"
That scenario still wouldn't work. If the two of us had book, and the two of them had a book, I would still say, "Our books are here." Or I would say, "Both of our books are here." If the book is singular, then you would say, "our book is here." The only time I can see separating that would be if our book was here and your book was over there. Since the books are in the same location, it is "our books are here." I suppose you could say in the right situation, "our book is here with their book." That would at least sound correct. But 40 years now speaking English, and not once have I ever heard anyone say, "both our book and your book are here."
But who said it's "the two of us"? My wife and I have one book (ours) and you have yours. Three people, two books. So what exactly is wrong with "Both our book and yours are here"?
I totally see your point and agree on that.
However it's interesting to see how the other half lives. I'm not a native speaker yet I have C1 in English. About a year ago when I learnt Esperanto (en->eo). I begin to understand what is all about this "lingual equality" movement. Way to many times I got wrong points because e.g. I forgot the indefinite article in English.
The question many times hits us: if something is in English to whom was it made for: natives or intertaional community.
In case of the Duolingo courses it seems to me we are speaking about the second category. Whether it's good or not would lead to long discussion, but the problem is given national or international.
Thank you for bringing up this topic! And thank you for reading my thoughts! Have a nice day! :)
...which is of limited usefulness as long as they withhold information and then penalize users for what they don't know.
The way I see it: it's like learning like a child, you don't teach them grammar and usually not even rules. You just correct them.
It's a reflexive thing. It doesn't translate well into English but for example,"I see both the boy and the girl" where И-translates to "both" and to "and."
I think a fluent (and literal!) translation would be: Here are both our books and yours.
And we I feel like in spoken English, the noun is attached to the first personal possessive pronoun, and (the noun) implied by the second.
Or honestly, I think we could even just say "Here are both our books", since "our" already kind of implies the book(s) belonging to everyone present.
Yeah, but if you have two separate groups of people, one being "us" and the other one being "you", with books belonging to one or the other, then you cannot simply say "our".
My attempt at this is: Book is singular. Think of this question "Whose book is this?" and the answer "Yours". NB "your book" but "yours". So "Both our book and yours are here" - There is one book belonging to us and another book belonging to you. You can't say "Both our book and your are here"
No i think it's "here is our book and your's" or "your book" scenario being that there are two of us that own one book and two of them owning one book as well.
I feel like the most natural translation would be "both our book and yours are here".
What is the grammatical difference between вот and здесь in such a sentence?
вот is more precise. You use it when you are, for example, pointing at something specific. Здесь is used in a more general way. For example, you would use Здесь if you wanted to say something like "It's here in this room" or "it's here, along this street"
вот = here is (talking about someone/something in this place)
вот дом = Here is the house
здесь = here (talking about this place itself)
дом здесь = The house [is] here
For those who know French, it might help to look at the equivalents:
вот = voila
здесь = ici
I've seen somewhere that вот is sort of like the french "Voila!" As in "behold!/Here it is!" where as здесь is more like the actual location that answers the question of "where?"
"Вот" is used in maaaany situations. Mostly it is related to pointing at something, like "Look, HERE it is". And the one you mentioned is also true, but I don't hear it often. Also there's an expression "вот так вот" which means "just like this" =) there's even a meme about Russian gym trainer on youtube, one can look it up by this prhase. Broading your mind, really)))
"Here is both our book and yours" is incorrect: the use of "both" requires the plural "here are" rather than the singular "here is"
Unless it is one book owned by both groups. It is an awkward sentence though.
Can we drop this sentence or focus on getting a decent set of good English translations up? The accepted answers are really unnatural, because "our" already includes everyone who is present. My girlfriend, who translates between Russian and English, agrees that "Here are both our books" is the simplest and best translation for this sentence.
Agreed. This sentence confuses me every time I see it during a strengthening exercise and I never get it right, primarily because I struggle to translate this into English. As said above in the comments, this sentence is edging on nonsense for English.
"Here is our book and yours" is not accepted. Shouldn't the proposed answer by Duolingo "Both our and your books are here." be more like "И нашим, и ваши книги здесь." ?
What is the significance of the first и being where it is in the sentence?
To emphasize that both books are here.
Without emphasis: Здесь наша и ваша книги. Pay attention to the plural here.
I understand the both...and... structure. I'm even starting to get the subtle distinction between вот and здесь. The issue that I have with this one is that I think that one of the correct translations is improper English usage.
I have taught test preparation for high school students, and I believe that "Here is both our book and yours" would be marked incorrect on a standardized English test. "Both our book and yours" is a noun phrase representing more than one book, so it is plural. It is not correct English grammar to say "Here is <plural noun>." While the discussions of the implications of Russian word order are extremely helpful to me, the correct translation can not be a grammatically incorrect English sentence.
Exactly, I just tried "Here are both our book and yours." and it was marked incorrect, the only difference being is vs are. I am not a native English speaker but I believe it should be are because the following noun phrase is plural like you explain.
I think it's trying to teach a particular Russian sentence construction similar to in English "the more, the merrier" "the bigger, the better" and such? Almost like a figure of speech or an expression.
Duolingo gives the weirdest sentences to learn. This one is clearly confusing everyone, but when will I ever use a sentence like this? Very rarely. I wish they would save stuff like this for the more advanced level, or offer explanations.
This is kind of a complex sentence in english, grammatically speaking. The translation now, although usually used in conversation, is wrong. The easiest way to check the sentence is by breaking it into parts. Would you say "yours book is here"? No, because it is clearly wrong. A lot of english speakers have trouble with this, too. If both groups have multiple books, then sure you would say both our books and your books are here. But broken down the sentence would be both our book is here and your book is here. All of that said, we are trying to learn to be conversational, so unless you're writing college level essays, no one will care and you'll be understood.
Am I wrong in translating this as, "Here is our book, and yours."? Seems like a lot of other people are confused by this translation which would never be used in English.
It's sort of a weird situation that would cause someone to say that. It's like there's a table with two books on it, and you point at one and say "here is our book..." and then point at the other and say "and yours"
Yep, in Russian one would use it in a situation like "It's not just our book here, yours is here too. We're both in this mess, dude" =)
I imagine there are 2 groups of people here, us and you. Could this sentence have two meanings? 1. Both our book and your book are here. (There are 2 books here) 2. Here is both our book and your book. (There is only 1 book here and it belongs to both us and you).
this is just like the opposite of neither and nor, right? здесь ни наша книга, ни ваша. that woud be the (correct) way to say "neither our book nor yours is here"? just saw the parallel and figured they matched
Usually when здесь is at the beginning it means There at the beginning and here at the end. So wouldn't it be " There are both our book and yours here.
I don't think this would ever be said in (modern) English. If we are talking about 2 books in the same place the most precise expression seems to be:
"our book and your one are both here"
Or less natural but more literal:
"both our book and your one are here"
Is there another interpretation of what the Russian could mean?
A more natural translation would be "Here are our books and here are your books." You need "here" twice for it to feel right.
What is the difference between наша and наши? What happens when the word has a и?
It's plural. Adjectives take on the ending of the noun they are describing. The word "наша" (our) ends in an "a" because the word it is describing (book) is a famine noun (ends in "a"). If it were plural "books" (книги) then the adjective would also end with "и" (наши).
If they are speaking about at least two books, then it becomes plural. nasha: only one book, nashi : more than one
From an English point of view, this doesn't make sense. If someone said this, I'd think they were very drunk.
Both our books are here?! Who are we talking TO? Yes, this fact makes 'yours' implicit in the context of the sentence here discussed, OR (discussed here, if you like). : ) The latter parenthetical choice is more common, though less formal or academic, but, after all; we are in class! 10-Q
How come this doesn't translate here is our book, and (also) yours. ?
Similar to their use of the "double negative," it's a peculiarity of the Russian language. Think of it as emphasizing the fact "both" nouns are involved.
In English it sounds bizarre but literally it's; "Here is (both) our book, and your book."
(Here and our book, and yours. ) Word order gets more and more confusing- just when you think you've cracked it!
I assume you mean why are there two "и"? It's a very idiomatic Russian sentence construction for "this one and that one." In English we might say "I see John, and I see Mary."
There could be multiple transitions to such sentences. But this course accepts just a fixed translation for most of the sentences. Please make it more flexible like the French course. We are learning Russian here not English grammar.
Everybody is complaining about the "our" thing and failed to address the elephant in the room, the book IS here! They are using "are" instead of is, there is only one book, what gives??
At least two books, our and yours are the subject. At least two gives plural.
Kniga is feminine. Many words which end with a are feminine and then the a at end gets copied onto the personal pronoun.
I think they mean that there are two groups of people (us - our book, you - your book) instead of just two people. But it is confusing.
I think they mean two groups ( we - our book, you- yours) instead of just two people. But it is really confusing.
I think they mean two groups (we - ours, you - yours) instead of two people. But it's confusing.
I think they mean two groups (we - ours, you - yours) instead of two people. But it is confusing.
Why is "Здесь наша книга, и ваша." incorrect? Why does и go before it?