"Здесь нет камня."

Translation:There is no stone here.

November 3, 2015

86 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/duckmaestro

What is the difference between камня and камень?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/j0ester

Камень - nominative.

Камня - genitive.

Нет requires genitive.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shulh4n

What is the meaning of nominative and genitive? And what is the different between them?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BadgemanBrown

They are cases in the Russian language. Nominative is the standard way words would appear as the subject of a sentence or in a Russian dictionary. The genetive case is used most commonly for posession and non-existence (здесь нет камня), but it has many uses. The case you use determines the ending of the words that are put in that case.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hansgrrkloss

There is usualy quite extensive description of what particular feature is in English wikipedia. It usually gives broader view of things as certain features like genitive are common - almost all slavic lang. have it, quite some other European lang. have it too.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/andriluik

Нет requires genitive (A belongs to B, in this case This place does not have any stones) Forming the genitive case Masculine Nouns: 1. If the noun ends in a consonant, add “а”. 2. Replace “й”, with “я”. 3. Replace “ь”, add “я”. Feminine Nouns: 1. Replace “а” with “ы”. 2. Replace “я” with “и”. 3. Replace “ь” with “и”.

Neuter Nouns: 1. Replace “о” with “а” 2. Replace “е” with “я” For example, some names in the genitive case:

Собака Адама - Adam's dog. (Whose dog? lit: The dog of Adam's) Автомобиль Анны - Anna's car. (lit: The car of Anna's) Телефон Игоря - Igor's telephone. (lit: The telephone of Igor's) Это телефон Адама? - Is this Adam's telephone? (lit: Is this the telephone of Adam's)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Skjellyfetti

"There isn't a stone here."

Should be correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bengali_Polyglot

Yes, this is absolutely correct. If not accepted, go ahead and report it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidBrowe3

Americans would, usually I think, express this thought using the plural:

"There are no stones here." is more colloquial.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tina_in_Bristol

Dinged for saying "no stones", yet if there aren't any, it makes no difference whether it's singular or plural. If there is no stone, there are also no stones.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidShyke

It did not accept: "The rock is not here", nor "Dwayne Johnson is not here".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chrstmassss

A shame it did not accept "Dwayne Johnson is not here"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tom_Adams101

Here there is no stone?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rustycontraption

I'll disagree with everyone else and say that is perfectly correct English grammar. If the topic of conversation is "here", it would be natural to start the sentence that way. "Here we take pride in our work", "Here is good"(when telling someone where to put something), "Here we take our shoes off when entering someones home", etc.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mmgery

Yeah, I agree. "There is no stone here" is the way it would usually be written but "here there is no stone" is by no means wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LobsangC

Here there is no blame!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MacJarrell

If we're speaking on grammar, we might go ahead use correct grammar here too. "Here, we take pride in our work". This emphasizes the location. To say, "Here is good", is improper grammar. Here is good what? "Here, is good". But then some will argue about comma usage. Punctuation saves lives. Let's eat Grandma, vs, Let's eat, Grandma.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EinerDerForscht

Although I agree with you on the importance of comma usage, I must disagree on your analysis of the sentence "Here is good". In this sentence, considering the context that the perdon above provided (i.e.: telling someone where to put something) the word "here", even though an adverb, functions as a noun here and acts like the subject of the sentence. Compare the following: "The pizza is good"; "My job is good"; "Going on vacations is good" and so on. That said, it would be incorrect to actually isolate the subject of any sentence with commas, so "Here is good" is actually the perfect way to put it! But nonetheless, the sentence with comma is also correct, but it expressed another structure. First an indication of place and then the sentence itself "Here," – intonation pause – "it's good".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bright_flash

Pretty weird English grammar, amirite?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tom_Adams101

You could well be right. Languages knowledge has pushed English knowledge right out of my brain. I've recently joined a choir, and only after four rehearsals has someone pointed out to me that I keep saying "repertorio", which, as it turns out, isn't an English word. So much for native speaker...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/flootzavut

I am constantly apologising to people and assuring them I am a native speaker, honest... :-/ I hear ya!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RobertDenver

That sounds OK to me. 'Here' could be the key word, for example, if we are contrasting with other places which have lots of stones.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Diego447439

Age of empires 2 Vietnam flashbacks


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/InSaNe_97

I always prefer AoE over other sequences.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sheymalu

it said (there is not a stone here) was wrong


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/clashcityrocker

'Here there is no stone' wasn't accepted


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BruceWater2

"No stone here" was wrong; why?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pablopublico

ка́мень (kámenʹ) [ˈkamʲɪnʲ] "stone; calculus; weight; cliff": From Proto-Slavic *kamy, from Proto-Indo-European *h₂éḱmō, whence English hammer, Lithuanian akmuõ, Serbo-Croatian kamēn, Albanian kmesë (“sickle”), Ancient Greek ἄκμων (ákmōn, “meteor rock, anvil”), Avestan asman, Sanskrit अश्मन् (áśman).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/InSaNe_97

Thank you. Although Serbo-Croatian is not a language. Now is either Serbian or Croatian, but basically the same thing just different names due to the politics I wouldn't go into.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Caleb590529

This is helpful for Russian Age of Empires


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bill627772

"the stone is not here" was not accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nortonblot

"Here there is no rock" was not accepted either. Isn't a rock the same thing as a stone?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tim960327

Usually in English a rock is larger than a stone. From small to large we go pebble, stone, rock and then boulder.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ladytexasbear

I'm a geologist. Stone and Rock are not sizes but pebble, gravel, and Boulder are.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Steve12184

Note English stone has two meanings: a material (uncountable) or an object. 'There is no stone here' might explain why everything is built of wood here. Alternatively, it might explain why I can't hit something with a stone. To distinguish the latter, we would employ the plural.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/InSaNe_97

Thank you, I knew but was a pleasure readin'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Eugene_Ukraine

вай нот there is no rocks?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_ginzburg

The Genitive shouldn't be used here, since we haven't reached the Genitive skill yet.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KrisTina239170

How about 'Here is no stone '


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/InSaNe_97

Well, tried that (or something very similar) but was not accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TimBarter

Would Нет камня здесь Also be acceptable?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Behnam199220

Am I the only one, who find this (genitive vs nominative) things, is so confusing? :/


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bozbox

Why is здесь не камня wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tim960327

From what I can understand this would be "here is not a stone" as не is Russian for not.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lTheMightyMl

Why is "There are no stones here." marked wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tim960327

That is because it is 'Здесь нет камня.' and not 'Здесь нет камни.', therefore it is 'stone', singular, not 'stones', plural.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EduardoBru868253

Can someone explain me the diference between "не" and "нет"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tim960327

'Нет' means 'no' and 'не' means 'not'. So 'Нет, это не банк' would mean 'no, this is not a bank'. So the literal translation of the sentence shown here would be 'Here no stone'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Eric0213

Can someone please explain why "The stone is not here " wouldn't translate for "здесь нет камня"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Steve12184

My beginner guess: To say "the stone is not here", "the stone" would be put into focus by putting it in first position in the sentence, something like камня здесь нет.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lisa4duolingo

Both "здесь нет камня" and "камня здесь нет" are acceptable phrases in Russian, but they do not mean "the stone is not here" (at least not for the instructional purposes of this course). I'll start with word order and go on to meaning later.

Proof of the flexibility of this word order can be seen with this Google Ngram which uses "water" (вода) as an example instead:

Russian puts new information or the most important information toward the end of a sentence, so this change of word order technically emphasizes different things. These two sentences again, with emphasis italicized:

Здесь нет воды.
Here there is no water.

Воды здесь нет.
There is no water here.

Though the two variants above appear to be acceptable in Russian,

Воды нет здесь.

does not. You could change it to:

Вода не здесь.

but this would then mean:

The water is not here.

So, getting back to your question:

Здесь нет камня. ≠ The stone is not here.

because the phrase здесь нет камня is a phrase about the existence or absence of something. This is not conveyed in a translation that omits the operative "there is/are" or "there is not/aren't" in such sentences.

A caveat to all of this is that I believe this is what the Duolingo course designers want us to learn about such phrases. I have a feeling that in practical usage translations of Russian into English and vice versa are a bit more fluid and, therefore, perhaps it is possible that "the stone is not here" might be considered an acceptable translation in some circles. For this course, however:

The stone is not here. = Камень не здесь.
There is no stone here. = Здесь нет камня.

Does that help? Do you see the difference?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nicholasma781418

a lot of people are grasping for answers on this translation- why is it in here in the first place? there is no stone here? what? i mean really...i'm all about learning mastery but this sentence seems overly difficult and quite frankly useless to me. well of course unless i worked at the stone masons hut...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lisa4duolingo

The sentence is an example of how Russian sentences are structured. If you don't happen to like the particular example used, even better, because that will motivate you to analyze the structure enough so that you can create sentences of your own. I recommend taking a pre-made list like the one here:

Top 500 Russian Nouns

and using it to create your own sentences. (Use a resource like Wiktionary if you don't know the genitive form of the noun.) Some examples:

Notice how I chose sentences that one might actually have a need for. And all of these came off of just the first page of nouns.

Like I said, if you don't know the genitive form of a noun, you can use a resource like Wiktionary to look it up. I'll use the Russian word for "water" as an example:


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_BananaBread

I thought the same, this seems like a really strange choice of word to introduce so early. I wish they had stuck to the most common everyday words.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MikeTaylor8

There are no stones is better style


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bennyvio

Why not здесь нет есть камня? I though if you are talking about the existence or non-existence of sth or somebody you have to use есть. I have this example in my mind: Is there a bathroom - здесь есть туалет. Is this there a bathroom - здесь туалет.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SergejKos

Есть use only for existence. For existence - non-existence you can use существовать - не существовать.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lisa4duolingo

According to this page:

Grammar Lesson 24: Indicating Having And Not Having Something. Genitive Case of Personal Pronouns

When the word есть is negated, it becomes нет (не+есть=>нет).

HTH


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LisaBertaud

why is "there aren't stones here" wrong? it feels natural to me to use the plural for the absence of something in English. It has the exact same meaning as singular and isn't wrong grammatically.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Paul150532

Here is no stone.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Carlovandersloot

"There is no stone" should be accepted right? Or is there a specific rule I'm missing why Here should be suffixed? Kinda feels double for Здесь


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MARSOKOT

I would really want to write "(Is) no stone here" or "(for) here (is) no stone", but in English it isn't allowing by rules. That is why sometimes "There is/There are" constructions seems really strange for understanding in Russian, because these contructions is not necessary for speaking/writing.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Norman_Westy

There is no stone here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tim514516

Im gonna use this sentence every day. Thank you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ida338265

Is "Нет камня здесь" wrong or sth?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Philtheflyer21.

Never mind the grammar, how useful I wonder is this sentance for a beginner!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Edwaldo53

"Here there is no stone" marked wrong feb 2021


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/InSaNe_97

From My understanding stays the following either/either: "Здесь нет камня." = "Here is no stone." or "Там нет камня здесь." = "There is no stone here." Nothing says about the "there" part. Mmm...

Edit: So, turns out it is propper English, it is just how they say, all languages I know have many of those weird nonsense stuff. So maybe "There is no stone here." the "There" is because people get used to it so it sounds good.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RonaldoAlb13

The correct sentence is: There is not stone here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/littlemissgothy

This may be a dumb question but why is it здесь instead of там since its "there


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kundoo

"Здесь" is the translation of "here" from the end of the sentence. "There is" is left untranslated in Russian. because Russian doesn't have such structure. Technically "there is/are" is "есть", but it's never used in a negative statement (and is often omitted in positive ones as well.).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JohnnyPanchoVia

The Matrix - Russian version


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EranBarLev

Why am I getting this sentence in the "Where" skill? It's not the prepositional case, and it has no preposition. I haven't learned this case yet. This lesson is too difficult. :(


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ZsoltGonczy

"There isn't stone here?" Why is it incorrect?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EinerDerForscht

I understand the grammar behind this sentence. My question is: does this sentence is also used to express existence in the abstract sense? Like, "there is no salvation here" or "Ain't no mountain high enough" or even "There is only the hope of fools"? And the expression doesn't change regardless of number (as in english "there is" vs. "there are")? All in all, does it functions exactly like these english phrases and the german "Es gibt"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ma-ri-aaaa

Im confused because i thought здесь indicated location but this one doesnt particularly implies a location or a "here" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/UwUily

why нет and not не?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kundoo

"Нет" means "no", "не" means "not".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pixyaby

why нет and not не

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