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  5. "У папы есть мама."

"У папы есть мама."

Translation:Dad has Mom.

November 4, 2015

110 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FirstTiger

can this sentence mean both "Dad has Mom" (his wife) and "Dad has a mom" (his mother) and "Dad has the mom" (the mother of, for example, a puppy)?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/olimo

It can mean both the first and the second, but not the third. For the third, you'd say "Мама у папы" - here it's not the fact of having her is important, but the fact that it is dad who has the mom of the puppies.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aestrivex

Can you explain a bit more what is the difference? Aren't they gramatically equivalent?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/olimo

I'll think of writing another detailed guide about that.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aestrivex

I would find that very helpful. Since "есть" was introduced in a context where it was optional I have been confused by the use or non-use of "есть". I am certainly not clear on why in some contexts the possessor would be any more important than the act of possession.

Thank you!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lingwat

I'm not a native speaker but I think I can adequately answer this.

"есть" translates to "there is" or "there exists" such as in the sentence "У меня есть яблоко" (literally "[of me/with me/relating to me/at my possession] there is an apple"). There is not an easy way to translate genitive case меня into English because we don't have it, we have possessive case instead. I can explain that too if you're interested.

But on the topic of есть, let's use the examples above. The first ones would be translated to "at Dad's possession there is Mom" or "Dad has Mom", and "at Dad's possession there is a mom" or "Dad has a mother." The third would be translated to "the mom is at dad's possession" or "Dad has the mom." I've capitalized instances of Dad and Mom where they imply one's own parent directly rather than some other mom or dad.

The difference here in the third sentence is subtle, but basically it comes down to the fact that we are not talking about "a mother" in general, nor the (functionally) proper noun "Mom, the spouse of Dad" of whom there is only one and therefore needs no specification. Instead we are talking about some specific mother: the mother of the puppies. So to make it clear that we mean a very specific mother, we make that the subject of the sentence: "This specific mother is at Dad's possession."

Another way to think of "there is" being used mostly in cases that don't need specification is like the English sentence "On the table there is an apple." You wouldn't say "on the table there is THE apple" because the word "there is" implies that the thing wasn't specified before. We are announcing it's existence for the first time. You'd instead say "THE apple is on the table." Just like you'd say "THE mother is at Dad's possession."

Because there are no articles in Russian, this kind of sentence structure is used to imply specificity and definitives rather than words like "a" or "the" in English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gaby754722

Let me guess...the first two cases, you only can guess the diference by the context (oh noes!). Or there's any trick to notice it?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dimidov

This is that emphasis thing, isn't it? 'The mother is with dad', instead of 'Dad has mom/a mom'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GeorgianaTanasa

If you continue the context with " ..and mom has the puppies", then the third meanning works with the initial form, right?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SethArnold1

"Dad has mom" is awkward in English; to me it says that "mom" is not sentient, or conscious, or well. "Mom" is ill, requires constant care, or dead. "Mom" is an object, not a person.

Is this sentence this awkward in Russian too?

The English translation may be improved with "mom is with dad" or "mom and dad are together".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kawunngg

I also wonder if "Dad has mom" is correct english, but I'm not a native speaker.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mre123slh

This construction would be used in the sense "dad has mom" to lean on or depend on, not in the sense of possession or owns. So y naпы есть мама would probaby not be the russian translation


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ritz16

Yes, or if dad kidnaps mom, "dad has mom" would make sense as well.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/StephieRice

It is probably correct.

It would be hard to think that the Russian sentence implies actual ownership of mom.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Peter594672

Right. The "у X есть Y" formula is rather about availability of Y to X than about ownership.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/keinemeinung

It makes perfect sense. "I feel bad for dad, all the kids have moved out of the house." "It's OK, dad has mom".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cwhite616

In English, the verb "has" can have a sexual connotation as well, making this a sentence I don't see a tremendous amount of use for.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/keinemeinung

Eh, maybe in the past tense ("I had her"), but I don't think that's the first or even second definition someone would associate with the verb. Basically any verb in English can be sexual if you want it to be :\

And there's definitely no innuendo in the Russian.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nikitakvas1

Its still kinda akward cause like you would rather ask if shes alive but its pretty normal


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Christophe656225

My Russian friend says it's a bit like child's talk (which was my feeling when reading both the Russian and English but I guess we are children learning a new language, no matter what our ages.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Reagan338829

Papa is a way of saying dad in english too and should be acceptable as an answer, the way that Mama is


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidStyIes

Just report it if you get it again and haven't already reported it :) The course is barely released, let alone out of beta; there are a lot of possible answers that aren't yet added to the database.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KerriKerri1

Can we say: "Mom is with Dad"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/olimo

This would be "мама с папой".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/keinemeinung

You could also say Мама у папы if you want to say that Mom's at dad's place.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mre123slh

Why is mum acceptable and not mama, especially if papa is now accepted for dad--- mommy and daddy, mom/mum and dad, mammy and pappy, mama and papa


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LobsangC

I'd say mammy and pappy are pushing it, they are strictly localized colloquialisms. In most of the US they would sound like deliberate affectations, even baby-talk. Actually 'mum' is just another 'British invasion'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/.untouchable

How to say: mom is at dad's place?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/olimo

Мама у папы. Or: Мама в гостях у папы (Mom is at dad's place as a guest).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/.untouchable

thanks. so the words order totally change the meaning. is it the same if i say: Мама есть у папы?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/olimo

You shouldn't use "есть" here, it makes the sentence strange and unnatural.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/.untouchable

heh it's funny cause I'm polish and for me it is 100% more natural to use "есть" :) that's why I'm asking. thanks!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/.untouchable

yes, it is very similiar, but we don't use cylyric :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JewishPolyglot

Russian and Polish are related, no?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Giant-Raven

your streak is impressive 0_0


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aestrivex

Why is is unnatural to use "есть" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/olimo

Because no native speaker uses it in such a sentence. We don't use "есть" when the fact of having is the most important information.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MattBenet

why doesn't "with dad, there is mom" work here? it was marked wrong


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Inguin-freyr

It's quite possibly too literal and not something you'd say in English. But feel free to report it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/diogo8484

It's no use to report it. That sentence is too awkward and somewhat incorrect in English to be accepted. Some people like to force it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kawunngg

why i think this sentence should be replaced with a totally different sentence that teaches the desired things in russian and sounds normal in english.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/northernguy

kawunngg

Not so easy to do with a vocabulary of a few dozen words and the goal is to teach case usage rather than provide an example of a typical conversation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kawunngg

yeah, i guess it's not easy to build a whole course...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mre123slh

This I agree with


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Inguin-freyr

Is the 'my' implied? I wrote 'our' and it was rejected. (Our dad has a mother as opposed to my dad has a mother, which is considered correct)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/keinemeinung

No possession is implied here - it could be anyone's dad and anyone's mom... It's also vague if they mean that he has mom (as in, his wife, your mother) or if it means he has a mom (which would be the speaker's grandmother) or... any number of things.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DashaVDarya

I think there should be an "a" selection for this sentence. "Dad has a mom" rather than "Dad has Mom"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mre123slh

I agree the sentence cam mean that too as well as dad has mom ( at his side, for example)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Peter594672

Isn't it a big Hello to the "Junior and Karlson"?

"Daddy has Mommy, Mommy has Daddy, and I have no one, not even a puppy..."(c)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sal858490

In England we don't have Moms. It is irritating. We have mother, ma or mummy but no mom.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mitchell326497

Significance of the "У" and how can I tell whether to put it before or after "папы"? In this lesson ive seen multiple variations, like the y coming before as well as after the noun, and some examples not even using "есть" yet meaning the same thing?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tessa25

in this case you can put y only before папы


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AustinRud74

dad has mom is just weird


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mike716479

No English speaker would say Dad has mom except in a kidnap case...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/keinemeinung

Not true at all. By itself it does sound a little awkward, but in a normal conversation it would make perfect sense. "Dad will never be lonely - he has mom", for example.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Flame_girl

I said "Father has a mama", and it was counted incorrect. Mama is mama in English as well.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/keinemeinung

It is a bit strange to me to mix and match terms like that. For instance, you can definitely say papa and mama in English, and you can say father and mother in English, but I don't think it's common to hear "father and mama" or "mother and papa", since they feel like two different registers of language.

Technically the sentence should be correct though.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RAMlz

When do we use "мама" instead of "мамы" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/.untouchable

"мама" is Nominative, "мамы" is Genitive.

The nominative case answers the questions "who?" or "what?". It is an initial form. All dictionaries give nouns in the nominative.

мама читает - mum is reading

The genitive case is used to show that something (somebody) belongs or refers to something (somebody). It can be translated by "of" in English.

кот мамы - mum's cat (cat of mum)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mostafa.sayed22

какая информация ! :D


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Trainer_Tim_

When I know ectb can also mean eating I read - Dad is eating Mum!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/james.s1

Whats the difference between папа / мама and папы /мамы


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/keinemeinung

Папа / мама is nominative case; (у) папы / мамы would be genitive case (in this sentence) - http://www.russianlessons.net/grammar/nouns_genitive.php . Папы / мамы can also be the plural forms of those nouns in nominative case.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/accountname

Why is mom not genitive?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/keinemeinung

Not knowing the specific grammatical term... Essentially, she is the subject of the sentence. The way you say "someone has something" is У кого-то что-то, with the что being the thing they have. In English and many languages that thing that is being "had" would be the object of the verb, but in Russian it is not.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tsvetayeva

I've never heard anyone say 'Dad has Mom'. I think the statement itself is not one anyone would use, therefore using it as an example is unhelpful.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/keinemeinung

Hoo boy I love these types of challenges.

1 - Duolingo has some amazing phrases you'd probably never say (just see "You're drinking my cat's milk" in the Swedish course!!), but it's still a basic and effective means of getting you working with the grammar and seeing how certain words decline in certain cases.

2 - You absolutely would say "Dad has mom" or vice versa, it's actually probably more common than you've realized if you watch TV shows or certain movies (probably not action films as much...). The context would be if someone's afraid of leaving their dad alone ("If I go to University in Michigan, who's going to take care of dad?" - "Dad'll be alright - he has mom").


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/keinemeinung

This would be "Мама с папой".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/giulianofgp

It is different to say у папа есть мама?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/keinemeinung

У папа is grammatically incorrect. Папа must be in genitive case, not nominative, because of the preposition у.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bottss1

Can this mean that the dad has his mom?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Saurabhn24

And dad is pretty happy 'having' mom. Gosh, sometimes literal translation can be darn funny.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TakakoKumagai

I answered "Dad has mom." and Duolingo says the answer is "Dad has mom." and that my answer is not correct. Why is this? Tecnical mistake by the computer? Or is this because we feel the situation "Dad has Mom" is not right or because we feel a mom is not a thing dad possesses?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mehrdad890986

Why папы and not папа?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Barbara761940

Why can't it be Dad has mum?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ween689582

sorry if someone has already asked this, but I don't understand why you put "y" before a term meaning someone has something. When, "y" by itself means something different.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chrisetteb

I still quite dont understand why sometimes you use мамы/папы/etc. and sometimes you use мама/папа/etc. Like in some sentences both words end with - ы and in some sentences only one word ends with - ы. Sorry if my grammar was bad (english isnt my first language).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Peter594672

Nouns (together with their adjectives) morph depending on their role in the sentence: whether they are the the subject that performs the action, the object of the action, the recipient of the action, the place where the action is performed, the tool, with which it is performed, etc.

This is known as Cases, and there are six of them. There used to be more and sometimes the remnants of those old ones still can be seen in the language, but it is safe to say that there are six you can't do without and will have to deal with anyway.

The Cases make it possible to shuffle parts of the sentence around and still understand who did what for whom with what regardless of the position of these parts.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/13artie

Pop has a mom should also be correct. Previously "papa" was translated as pop.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nikolay_Moscow

дословно можно перевести "папа имеет маму"))


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/corivard

That doesn't even make sense


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Edward697039

The English translation doesn't make any sense. It can be interpreted as either the present tense version of "Dad had Mum" which has a sexual interpretation, but doesn't make any sense as a present tense. Or, more likely, "Dad is the owner of Mum" which also doesn't make any sense. If you wanted to say that Dad owns Mum, you would use the verb owns not "has".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/keinemeinung

@Edward697039 - There's another sense of "Someone has somebody". It means that the person is not alone.

In this case, "Dad has mom" readily means "Mom is still alive and together with Dad" (or at least she still supports him).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Edward697039

In the English speaking world, no one would say that. It doesn't make sense.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/keinemeinung

@Edward697039 - In American English it makes perfect sense, and it is used in that meaning all the time; not specifically about parents, but about people in general. "Everybody has somebody", "they have each other", "he has her and she has him". These do not carry any sort of sexual meaning at all. You might also hear "We've got each other" or "they've got each other", though the "got" in that context is a bit redundant.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Edward697039

That's not the same as saying "Dad has Mum". Yes you can say "she has him" (implying emotional support), but not Dad has Mum - not really. It would be considered weird.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/keinemeinung

I strongly disagree, and I don't see anything weird with it until you start adding dirty connotations to it as you've done here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/keinemeinung

@Edward697039 - Quite a silly response, considering I, too, am a native English speaker. And in the US this would be a perfectly fine phrase, though it would probably be said with more context to it (the same can be said for a lot of exercises on DL, though).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Edward697039

Take advice from the native speaker - and also those others saying the same thing. It just doesn't make correct grammatical sense.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mjetkost

"A father has a mother." is not accepted despite it and it's equivalents being the most correct answers. Russian has no articles, and it's not possible to deduce whether it's a definite or indefinite 'father', but using 'the' at all in the English translation is dubious at best.

However, "Dad has Mom" is incorrect in every possible way. In English the articles have to be there for it to be grammatically correct.

EDIT: why so harsh... not "incorrect in every possible way", but would be weird on it's own like that.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Le-petit-loup

What is this supposed to mean? The English rendering means that the mother is a sole and entire possession of the father, i.e. old-fashioned patriarchy. I doubt very much this is what the designer of the sentence intended, so I suggest the English version be remedied. Perhaps you mean "Dad has a mom" or "Dad has a wife"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/keinemeinung

It could be taken to mean that dad himself has a mom, or that Dad has mom (like, he's not alone because his wife is with him). I wouldn't risk trying to bring political correctness into discussion here. For one, it's just a language learning course so you're going to encounter sentences like this that are solely meant to illustrate grammar. Secondly, Russian culture itself is rather chauvinistic still and while the word "politkorrektnost" might exist, the concept itself is rather foreign in Russia.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Le-petit-loup

Thanks for your comment. I take your point about nonsense sentences being of value in language learning; I'm not trying to be pedantic. Nor, heaven forbid, would I every use the word "patriarchy" as political currency. This sentence just genuinely strikes me as over the line. Your second stab at what it might be taken to mean (Dad is not alone, because he has mom) works if context is provided. Your first one, as your own insertion of an indefinite article illustrates, does not stand. Be that as it may, my comment was meant more than anything as a heads-up to non-native speakers who might be learning English backwards. You do make a very good about the risk of stirring up a political storm! Online forums can be ruthless. I'll think of that next time I think of quipping in the comment area. Thanks again for replying, and best of luck with your language studies!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rob652269

Dad has mum. Who would have funked it. Terrible English lol.

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