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  5. "У собаки нет воды."

"У собаки нет воды."

Translation:The dog does not have water.

November 4, 2015

84 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/goldbedr

This may be addressed later, but if you wanted to say "The dogs do not have water", how do you construct that?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Olga451165

У собак нет воды


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/goldbedr

So the plural completely drops the ending?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Olga451165

in this specific case yes. mix of "dogs", plural and possession . bear in mind that "dogs" on it's own is "sabaki"

other example with cats- (cats= "koshki/kati) "y koshek net vadi"/"y katof net vadi"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/goldbedr

Grammar is going to take a LONG time for me to get right :(


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/0zgq

It's a bit more manageable if you can see all the declensions of a word sorted into a table: (scroll down to Declension and click "show")

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%d1%81%d0%be%d0%b1%d0%b0%d0%ba%d0%b0#Russian


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_Maria_B._

Goldbedr, I absolutely feel you. Genitive is frustrating in the way it switches around plurals.

WHY can't we all have just one language?!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hellui

hahahahaha you are not alone :(


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_Maria_B._

Btw Michael, that link was very helpful, thanks!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bobrotron

Good luck guys! Сочувствую и соболезную:) Почитала комментарии к урокам по русскому языку и поняла, насколько тяжело его учить, искренне желаю успехов!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JAYYDROWNE

Then what about "Кошка", which also means "cat"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SeosamhOSlatra

Cats plural by itself would be 《кошки》 but to say that the cats don't have milk would be 《У кошек нет молока.》


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NathanCraft

I've written that too


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dave168907

Would that one language be Russian?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aguadopd

Every lesson have some tips and notes, but they are only visible in the web app. https://www.duolingo.com/skill/ru/Genitive-Case---1

Tips and notes

In Russian “I have” is expressed by «У меня (есть)» structure. The owner is in the Genitive case.

GENITIVE

"The of-case". It is one of the most universal cases. How do you make the forms? Here is the regular pattern:

(TABLE)

A zero ending means that the word ends in a consonant or a soft sign (which is just a way to show the final consonant is "soft"). In the Nominative singular, a Russian word can only have the following endings: а, я, о, е, ё ornothing ("zero ending").

GENITIVE OF NEGATION

If you use «нет» to say that there is "no" something or you do not have it, the object is always in Genitive:

У меня́ есть я́блоко → У меня́ нет я́блока

Здесь есть рюкза́к → Здесь нет рюкзака́.

MAJOR USES

"of" (possession): яблоко мамы = mom's apple"of" (amount): чашка чая, много чая = a cup of tea, a lot of tea

A huge number of prepositions requires this case. Yes, «у меня есть», «У неё есть» only use «меня» and «неё» because «у» wants Genitive.

For он, она and оно Genitive doubles as a non-changing possessive "his", "her", "their": его, её, их.

initial «н» is used for him/her/them with the majority of prepositions (doesn't affect possessives)

INDECLINABLE NOUNS

A little side note: some nouns of foreign origin are indeclinable. It means that all their forms are the same. Foreign nouns that end in о/е become like that (кофе, метро, радио, резюме), as well as all nouns that do not fit into Russian declension patterns (see above).

This includes female names that end in anything other than А or Я. A few -ь-ending names are an exception (Любовь and Biblical names like Юдифь).

So, all of the following names are automatically indeclinable: Маргарет, Мэри, Элли, Дженни, Рэйчел, Натали, Энн, Ким, Тесс, Жасмин.

I AM AWAY

Russian also uses the Genitive to state that someone is "away", "not there": Мамы сейчас нет. In English such use would correspond to "There is no mom at the moment", or even "There is no me now". We are not hard on that particular construction in the course, but it is important to know it all the same.

Added bonus: when a verb directly acts on a noun, the noun is called a direct object and is in Accusative. In Russian, only -а/-я feminine nouns have a unique form for it. Others just reuse Genitive or don't change the word at all (Nominative)

NOTHING

Russian uses.... let's call it "consistent" negation. It means that in negative sentences you are required to use "nothing" instead of "anything", "nowhere" instead of "somewhere" and so on. Let's meet the first of these pronouns:

У меня ничего нет. = I don't have anything. Она ничего не ест. = She doesn't eat anything.

You'll also notice that, unlike standard English, Russian has no rule against using double negatives.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/eirelegend

Why is the translation "собаки" rather than "собакы"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pogotc

I was wondering this too. I'm guessing it's because of the same spelling rule that affects the nominative plural where if the final consonant is one of Г, К, Х, Ж, Ч, Ш, Щ then и is used instead of ы


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/elsantodel90

Right. Never write кы, гы, хы, etc [EDIT: see post below for clarification and details]. Always ки, ги, хи instead. With к, г,х it sounds as written (и). With Ж and Ш [EDIT: ч, щ were accidentally included here initially, see the post below] it is still pronounced as if it were ы, but is written like и anyway for historical reasons (like the pointless ь after ш on every verb in the ты conjugation, which does not affect ш at all).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ulysser

И sounds like и after щ and ч, but like ы after ж ш ц.

Take care of what you teach.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/elsantodel90

¡¡¡UPS!!!

You are absolutely correct there. I knew that myself, but it completely slipped my mind here. I clearly got confused because of the rule that you never write "ы" after Ж, Ч, Ш, Щ, so I put all of them together there, but the pronunciation rule that I cite applies only to ж and ш. In general ч, щ are always soft, and ж, ш, ц are always hard (though writing ци and цы are both possible and not forbidden by a spelling rule, but ци sounds like цы).

I gave you ten lingots because this is really important stuff that could really confuse beginners, good eye there :). I'll adjust the original post accordingly.

Here is wikipedia's entry on the spelling rules:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spelling_rule


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ulysser

My intention was not to show you don't know what you teach, as I said, just take care, because it indeed can get beginners confused.

Sorry if I have offended you. It was not my intention. And keep on teaching, it is too important for us to do it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/franklinfranks

GuidoSassi ukranian is more phonetic than russian. in ukranian everything is pronounced how its spelled.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GuidoSassi

Cyril and his companion were a couple of bad persons. They didn't reproduce the phonetics on single items! Russian is terrible like French! I love Japanese (Italian and Spanish for the most), what you write is what you read what you tell is what you write, one letter one sound one sound one letter.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rasheed1397

why is both собаки and собака not plurals?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JanisaChatte

"Собака" is "dog" in nominative singular, "собаки" is either "dog" in genitive singular or "dogs" in nominative plural. "У" is always followed by genitive case and that is why "dog" is singular in this sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/agriffin95

This has got to be one of the hardest lessons to strengthen on Duo.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HaitianHero48

Give the doggo some water!!!!!!! They're a good doggo!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DelforIbarra1

sobaki is not plural?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/geneven

Not here, because it follows У which makes it genitive singular.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_Maria_B._

Delfor Ibarra 1, see the above comment by Janisa. It's very helpful!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PirSalahud

Why my answer is wrong my answer The dog does not have water


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/joefeyzullah

I wonder too as "any" isn't represented in question sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/STDDMA5067

Why is "The dogs haven't any water" not accepted?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alexmalaho

The main rule: Negative sentences using auxiliary verbs in English.

I don't have a pen

She doesn't like studying

He didn't have a textbook

Haven't sounds old-fashioned


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ZabsterLiza

Is this usage a standard negative in British English? If so, maybe question it to the makers of Duolingo. Duolingo is headquartered in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and goes with the standard negative in American English, which, as Alexmalaho says above, requires the helping verb "don't". But Duolingo shouldn't discriminate against language norms in other parts of the globe. If I'm wrong, and this isn't a British usage, please ignore!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lantky

The dog has no water.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CarlAgren

I wouldn't worry. He probably stole every bodies milk.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlinaMaybo

Duolingo got dark real fast


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ohadh

why is "the dog doesn't have water" wrong, but "the dog does not have water" correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Andres756730

In music the same language is used by musicians. The scientific community uses Latin. Computers use English as common language. Why humans do not use a common language?. Because they have invented a concept called national or group identity. It could be accepted, but on the other hand creates communication barriers and jobs for many people.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/darkestkhan

"The scientific community uses Latin" Latin my ass. English. Scientific community uses english. Computers don't care.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AdrianneMe6

You guys know so much about grammar. Where did you get all this informations? Could you guys recomend some websites?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lemur-Catta

Next to Duolingo I also use http://www.russianlessons.net/ and http://learnrussian.rt.com/. Both have grammar sections. Furthermore, if you look up a noun in https://www.dict.com/Russian-English/ it has a declination table for that noun as well..


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LukeReidt

Why didnt they use есты


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alexmalaho

Just because there's no such word as есты


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lemur-Catta

I wrote "The dog does have no water". What's wrong with that?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alexmalaho

Does? for what purpose?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JAYYDROWNE

Am I the only one who's bothered that this translation is off? I mean, it means the same thing, but I don't know.. it isn't exact and it confused me at first


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alexmalaho

Can you be more specific?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sal858490

The dogs have no water - perfectly correct sentence and I use it often (but I only have one dog!)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kundoo

Do you mean that you use plural despite having one dog? Anyway, I don't think they would accept plural instead of singular, even if you say that in real life.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KAPT0XA

The dogs do not have water. У собак нет воды. The cats do not have water. У котов нет воды. У кошек нет воды. The cat does not have water. У кота нет воды. У кошки нет воды.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alexmalaho

Кошки, собаки but кота is the tricky part.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/recineration

Can I ask whether a more accurate translatiom of this " У собаки нет воды " is "the dog does not have water" or "the dog has no water"? They both are marked as correct, however I know the difference is subtle but there in English, because one is saying it does not exist in their possession the other is giving the amount which is none. If it is one of those, how do you say the other in Russian?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alexmalaho

It's hard to say. Off the top of my head, the dog has no water. - собака без воды. Any context?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Costa_A2

BUT IN FEMININ'S GENETIVE WE REPLACE "А" with "Ы", so why we use И here


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_._Tim_._

You are right, but there is exclusion in this rule. After Г, К, Х, Ж, Ш, Ч, Щ you must use only И not Ы

подруГа - подруги

даЧа - дачи

сумКа - сумки


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Surya350565

When do we use У? Why not это,Эта etc..


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gerrard_SpM

Why when i write "the dogs does not have water" ? duo didnt pass my anser meaning of собаки is showing me dog\dogs


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alexmalaho

Собаки is genetive there, not plural.

The dogs do not have

The dog does not have


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Psynderis

I'm have a lot of trouble differentiating between plural and genitive.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Psynderis

What not "The dogs have no water"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alexmalaho

Собаки is not plural here. It's genetive. Собака не имеет воды = У собаки нет воды

"The dogs have no water" is У собак нет воды


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Psynderis

This might be a stupid question, but how do I know whether it's plural or genitive? Like what in the sentence would tell me?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kundoo

The preposition "у" requires genitive, so it can't possibly be nominative plural.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Psynderis

OH! Ok., thank you. Just one more question. I'm sorry.

Genitive form can be in either the middle or at the end of a sentence, right?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kundoo

The grammatical case depends on the function of the word, not on it's position within the sentence, so the cases and the word order are pretty unrelated. Depending on what you are trying to say the noun in the genitive case can be in the beginning, in the middle or in the end of the sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PaoFuenza

Why воды isn't in its genitive form? Does it even exist??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PaoFuenza

And how is the nominative form? Вода?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bensisva

How I can bookmark this QA.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/franklinfranks

if by QA you mean this discussion thread the url is https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/11485120


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ValentinSe14370

"собаки" Is it not plural? How would you say in Russian: Dogs do not have water?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/franklinfranks

plural would be у собак нет воды


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ouzkaratuf

The thing i dont understand собаки is plural for sure , what is the logic in it?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alexmalaho

Genitive case is собаки.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GoranMilos8

"A dog doesn't have water", sould be correct also

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