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  5. "Both the menu and the plate …

"Both the menu and the plate are on the table."

Translation:И меню, и тарелка — на столе.

November 5, 2015



Is На столе и меню и тарелка correct?


Not wrong, but less natural. Note that you have to put a comma when using "и ..., и ..." construction.


Yes, I noticed after, but Duo doesn't mind not putting comas. In this case, in a russian course, I think it should be important to insist on it because comas are very important. Example: Я тебя люблю больше, чем жизнь (I love you more than life). In english, you wouldn't put a coma there.


Russian punctuation is not easy even for native speakers, so it would be a real pain for learners to use it right. In your example about love and life, the absence of the comma would not make any difference to the meaning (and many Russians would write this sentence without a comma).

Here's an example where the comma is a matter of life and death: Казнить нельзя помиловать:

  • Казнить, нельзя помиловать = Put (them) to death; it is not possible to pardon (them)!
  • Казнить нельзя, помиловать = It is impossible to put (them) to death, pardon (them)!

It is a classical example of the importance of the comma :-)


Oh, so the comma is important when it changes the sentence (like in all languages)? So it is not that important even with чем, for example.

However, is the comma between и ..., и ... important and mandatory then?


Let's eat, granny. Let's eat granny. In English, commas can save lives lol!


No, no, no, I don't say commas are optional. There are rules which you have to follow if you want to write properly. I'm just saying that your example is not very good to demonstrate the importance of comma: both with it or without it the reader will understand you correctly. And so I gave an example when the place of comma can mean life or death for someone.

Yes, the rule is to use the comma with "и ..., и ...".


This is quite correct. The difference is only in the accent: 1. Localization: "И меню, и тарелка лежат (Где? Where?) на столе." 2. Definition: "На столе лежат (Что? What?) и меню, и тарелка."


I think the meaning is a bit different because of the emphasis


How about "На столе есть и меню и тарелка" ?


That was my answer too, also wondering :)


I wonder this too


Why is Тарелка more correct than Тарелку?


'Тарелка' is used when saying 'Тарелка на столе' (TRANSLATION: The plate is on the table). 'Тарелку' is used when saying 'Дай мне тарелку' (TRANSLATION: Give me the plate). So, in other words; 'Тарелка' is used when describing it. 'Тарелку' is asked when directly asking someone to do something with the plate. I tried my best explaining, please tell me if I'm wrong. (I'm a native speaker, for the 0 people who actually care.)


is ''на столе и меню , и тарелка'' wrong?


Shouldn't it be тарелку here?


I'm still fuzzy on when to use the dash and when to leave it out. Are we just using it here because the subject is an "и ..., и ..." construction?


Why in this sentence we have to start our anser with И


Because мать россия said so!


I put "меню и тарелка на столе," why is this incorrect? Is it because the phrase says "both?"


So, dose и mean "both" and "and "


Not really. "И" just means "and". Russian has another word for "both" (I think it's "оба"); they just don't use it here. They say "and this, and that" where English would say "both this and that".


I wonder how it was said in Russian's and English's latest common ancestor.


do we really need "-" dash in this sentence?


I was inclined to decline стол as столу. In this case however, it is declined as столе. Is this because it is the prepositional form of стол?

I'm asking because I have not yet covered prepositional forms in this course and I have read somewhere that the Russian langued does have them.

I use the mobile version of Duolingo so I cannot see any "tips" or whatever there is. It is kind of strange because when doing the French course in Duolingo I can see tips right in the mobile app. They even have stories there.


В, на, о, при are used with the Prepositional case. In the singular, its endings are -е or -и depending on the type of the noun (e.g., мама→маме, земля→земле, стол→столе, молоко→молоке, лошадь→лошади, Мария→Марии, здание→здании)

(в and на are also used with the Accusative to express direction)

A handful of short consonant-ending masculine nouns use the stressed -у instead of -е when used with в, на or both (e.g., в саду, в лесу, в шкафу, на мосту, в порту, в ряду, на свету, на льду, в раю, в аду).

Fortunately, стол is not one of them.


I am confused when do i use тарелка and тарелку???


Shouldn't it be "Oba menyu i tarelka na stole"?


оба is used as два; so if right, it would be: оба меню и тарелки - на столе


Is it wrong to say мену и тарелка на столе?


Would the sentence "И меню, и тарелку на столе лежат" be correct or not? Duo bird said that it's incorrect. I remember my Russian teacher advising using these verbs when objects are on top of something.


Is it correct to say it this way: И меню, и тарелка лежит на столе

Or is it more natural/common to use the dash in place of лежит?


It's not correct for two reasons. First, since there's more than one object, we have to use the plural form "лежат". Second, unless the plate is upside down, we don't say "лежит" about it, we say "стоит". Menu on the other hand is probably "лежит". If the placement of the two objects is different in this regard it's better to omit the verb whatsoever rather that force the wrong one on one or more of them.


PS: You can use "стоят" here, but remember, the mental picture would be that the menu is placed like this:


So does for table become neutral because it has both a masculine menu and The Feminine plate on it?


Er.. Come again? Меню is neuter, by the way.

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