No, this is a glass, not a cup. Like this:
FYI: the silver thing is called подстаканник - a glass holder.
To my mind the tumbler by itself is a glass, but as soon as you put it in a holder with a handle it effectively becomes a cup. :-)
Sometimes Russians drink hot tea from glasses without any holders. This is still popular in Soviet-style canteens, e.g. in schools.
That's bizarre... Though I would consider that a "glass" of tea in that situation. :-)
Here's an example of a typical lunch served in a Soviet-style canteen:
Щи, винегрет (salad with beetroots and sauerkraut), гороховое или картофельное пюре (mashed peas or potatoes - I'm not sure, the color suggests peas), a sausage, some bread, and... a glass of tea!
They drink tea from glasses across the whole Magreb, and in other places. Not as bizarre as you may think.
This is probably another of those regional things that's different all over the world, and therefore will never have complete agreement from all parties involved. :) Since I never heard of anyone doing that anywhere except Russia, I would use Russian "glass of tea", and in English I would probably continue to use "cup of tea", except in cases of iced tea.
@Olimo Ooh.. That beetroot salad looks familiar, I think my дедушка used to serve me something similar when I was a child. I think he put egg in it too though it's been many years so my memory is fuzzy.
@Chloemarie128 That's fine with me, but I think I personally would do better using "glass", as that is the literal translation, and sometimes is the only good one. But that's just me, and others can do it differently, as far as I'm concerned. If it works for you, and Duo doesn't mind, go ahead and do it. :)
@SiblingCreature: The most common ingredients are beetroots, carrots and potatoes (all boiled, cooled and peeled), pickled cucumbers, sauerkraut and onions. Wikipedia says classic винегрет has eggs, too, but I've never eaten винегрет with eggs. Weird.
@ A_User, That wouldn't surprise me, The polish have борщ as well.
Actually, that reminds me, the nearest Polish restaurant is apparently a lot closer than the nearest Russian restaurant, I may have to check that out.
It might be a Polish dish as well or something, and that's why it looks familiar. Is it all pickled?
Oh, I remember the name винегрет now that I think on it.... Methinks I need to find a Russian restaurant.. All this talk of the foods my дедушка would make is making me crave them...
Small glasses like those are everyday stuff all over India. Particularly in restaurants and on the streets.
Now I need to go Wikipedia Polish foods. I know there's a salad that has something to do with shredded vegetables.
aha-ha-ha it's like in a train or in an eatery только таких подстаканников уже к сожалению нет(
But there is a problem, that in English the sentence "a glass of tea" does NOT make any sense. Therefore even though it is a glass in English you say, you call, this glass CUP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
English speakers expect tea to come in a cup. When possible it is served in a comparatively delicate cup to reflect the delicate nature of tea. Coffee is usually served in a larger, sturdier cup.
Serving tea in what is considered to be a coffee cup when tea cups are actually available is regarded as being informal to the point of being at least inelegant.
Apparently Russians expect tea to be served in a glass, albeit accompanied by an ornamental holder with a handle for comfort and convenience.
Duo has adopted the practice of insisting Duo users recognize the different behavior patterns by insisting on a faithful translation of the Russian word for glass into the English word for glass. .
I imagine there is a Russian student taking an English course somewhere expressing his frustration by saying.....but Russians always drink tea in a glass so why can't I translate English cup of tea into Russian glass of tea since that is the way everybody I know drinks it. Who cares what those crazy Anglos do?........
I am pretty sure I said we normally use cups or coffee cups. This is a long thread, though. It is completely understandable if someone did not actually read it (which, naturally, would be advisable to discuss its contents in any detail).
As to different drinking vessels in Russian, here are ча́шка, кру́жка, стака́н, рю́мка, бока́л, фуже́р, and сто́пка.
In theory, a person may pour some tea, milk, or juice into any of the above (I just checked: it works!) However, using anything except 1,2, and 3 would be a fairly odd thing to do, since the whole bottom row is for alcohol. Mostly we use "cups"(1) and "mugs"(2), both of which are cups in English and might be чашка in Russian (кружка is often called чашка IRL). I use a Soviet glass (3) at home, which is not as common but would not raise any eyebrows.
When speaking in English, if I am offered a "cup of tea", I would expect it to arrive in a cup. (A mug is never a cup in British English.) To offer someone a "mug of tea" is rarer, but does happen. But "would you like some tea?" is also common. "Some tea" or "a tea" (i.e. a single serving of tea) is what I would ask for if I don't care what it arrives in.
Does Russian also have this neutral option, for not specifying the receptacle?
Caveat: It's true that the English vernacular "a cuppa" always refers to tea, and is independent of actual receptacle, but that is similar to "let's go for a drink" implying alcohol not water. It's a special case, not indicative of the general meaning.
If you want some tea, you just ask for it ("Можно чай?"/"Можно чая(чаю)?", for example), without specifying the receptacle.
This makes sense because restaurants have their designated containers which they would use anyway (do you often ask to serve pasta in a bowl or a frying pan, not on a plate? do they comply?)—and when at someone's house you rarely care about the exact vessel.
The only confusion is that the words do not map one to one. A glass-shaped vessel made of plastic becomes a plastic cup in English, even though it is still стакан in Russian; to be more precise, «пластиковый стаканчик» is what you would usually hear in speech (but a large plastic cup for beer is стакан). In English, a teacup made of glass is still a cup, though. A beer mug made of glass is 100% кружка in Russian—I am not sure if you can call it a "glass" in English.
A measuring cup used in cooking by oh so unprofessional cooks is "стакан" in Russian but a "cup" in English. In this sense, стакан чая is indeed equivalent to "a cup of tea", especially if said tea is not liquid (i.e. a standard cup full of tea leaves).
A large glass for alcoholic beverages is бокал but a smaller one shaped similarly to a wineglass is рюмка. Then, you have a huge "cup" no one drinks from—a sports reward. This is кубок, and, just like in English, is associated with large medieval cups ("cup", "goblet", "chalice") that are not in use today.
UPDATE: Oh...as for a glass holder (подстаканник)—that thing screams retro to me. I am sure many native speakers saw them (at least, on pictures), I even used one on a train myself. I guess if a train uses glasses to serve tea, a glass holder will also be there. Me, I do not drink boiling water anyway, so it never even occured to me that I need something to hold my glass.
That's what I thought. I don't get why this whole thread is making out that we are so different that "a cup of tea" = стакан чая..
Вы пьёте чай; we drink tea.
У Вас есть чашка чая; I have a cup of.tea.
Sometimes you may also have a glass of tea; here we generally don't.
It's as simple as that, isn't it?
@Shady_arc: A beer mug in British English is made of glass and has a handle (also glass).
Beer is also served in a glass (more often, nowadays) which does not have a handle.
Both a "mug of beer" or a "glass of beer" are possible, but they will arrive in different receptacles.
The only time I have been served a drink in a подстаканник was to drink punch at a formal occasion - and I was offered "a glass of punch".
"When speaking in English, if I am offered a "cup of tea", I would expect it to arrive in a cup. (A mug is never a cup in British English.)"
No, nowadays it really depends on the setting:
More formal (whether in someone's home or formal restaurant) = expect a cup and saucer.
Less formal (visiting friends or family, or casual restaurant/diner) = expect a mug.
Some pub or diner-style eateries will still go for cup and saucer, especially if they actually bring a teapot to the table. But they're very likely to be very thick, heavy cups, built primarily for durability (basically cup-shaped mugs) -- not traditional, delicate teacups.
But, honestly, most times you're offered "a cup of tea" in the UK are when visiting people's homes. And in those cases, unless you're visiting someone of an older generation who still appreciates the full formality and tradition of teapot + cups + saucers, I'd always, always expect to get a mug despite the offer of "a cup".
Really? I may serve tea in a mug, but if so, I would offer "some tea" or "tea", never "a cup of tea".
If I am offered a cup, I would still expect a cup - even if it a nasty styrofoam/plastic thing.
Russians usually drink tea from cups. However, you can also use a glass, a bucket, a bowl or a frying pan.
Well around where I live, people do say “glass of tea” when referring to iced sweet tea, but yeah I see how Brits would have trouble with this one.
So we have a logic problem here Duolingo. When you say glass of rice, it marks you wrong and says that стакан риса means Cup of rice. However when I say cup of tea here, it says its wrong. Please fix or do a much better job explaining.
I think you'll find it's an issue of different senses of the word. "Стакан чая" refers to what you are drinking the tea out of - A glass. This doesn't change between languages. I think the "стакан риса" you mentioned refers to the amount of rice, but in English we don't have "glass" as a unit of measurement, we have "cups" so that is the word used to translate that sense of the word "стакан".
In the case of "cup" as a unit of measurement, this makes sense; but in the case of "cup" as a drinking vessel, one can consume tea from a cup or a glass. I think I understand the subtlety that Duo is attempting to enforce; but a brief mention of it in the lesson notes would be welcomed.
One can consume tea from either a cup or a glass, but whichever you are drinking from you don't call it by the other name. A glass is a glass, a cup is a cup and a spade is a spade.
Fair enough. It's стакан чая vs чашка чая perhaps. Still unresolved is the use of стакан as a unit of volumetric measurement. I have not found any references about this despite its implied meaning in Duo, as in стакан писа.
As a native English speaker I find it bizarre that one of the longest discourses on Duo in about a cup of tea ! Or a glass..... ! Very English to worry about tea.....
This is a perfect storm of miscommunication. In English a cup is a vessel and unit of measurement and in Russian стакан is a vessel and a unit of measurement. But a glass is not formally a unit and neither is чашка. The two units/words are switched! And the only reason tea is in this lesson is because it's perfect for Partitive. Too good.
In English ask for a "cup of tea," even if the vessel is made of glass, or doesn't have a handle, and in Russian don't ask for a "чашка чая" when you want 250ml of tea.
(I think the other piece of confusion comes from English's third meaning for cup - any small drinking container. The glasses shown in the pictures of Russian tea are also cups in English. If it fits in your one hand you can call it a cup, with or without a handle. Grammatically a "glass of tea" does work and there might be a situation when you need to use it, but it would be super rare. However, without this glass/cup miscommunication I wouldn't have found out about the cultural difference and it's way, that's the most important lesson.)
I'd swear I remember learning "стакан чаю" and a quick internet search seems to indicate that this is a point of some discussion or confusion ("Стакан чаю" or "стакан чая"). Can someone explain a little more?
It's known as the Partitive case. It is sometimes used with a limited set of nouns (typically food or drinks) and carries the meaning of "some". If the noun has a special partitive form, it will be identical to Dative, otherwise you would use Genitive. The whole thing can be viewed as a special case of Genitive or as a yet another case in addition to the "normal" six you know (if you want). If you look it up on Wiktionary, you'll see that it gives «чаю» below the standard declension paradigm.
You can use both versions. Moreover, without special articulation you won't hear any difference between чая and чаю, the last sound is reduced.
Are we striving for strict literal translation? Or to convey the actual meaning? Most professional translators would vote for the latter.
I have trouble hearing how "чая" is pronounced. Seems like "tchaè", but that doesn"t make much sense :l
Just a couple notes: The definition of Partitive: "(of a grammatical construction or case) referring to only a part of a whole, for example a slice of bacon, a series of accidents, some of the children."
From Duo's Tips and Notes: Чаю is an optional form of Чая for the partitive
"Partitive" apparently is the same a genitive, in the case of expressing a quantity of something, like a glass of tea. Genitive/Partitive is also used to express an unspecified amount of something instead of using Accusative (for a direct object), e.g., "Я хочу воды = I want (some) water."
No, both come from the Chinese word cha, by way of India, where it became chai, to Europe. In some languages, including Russian, chai is still the word for tea in general, while in English it now only refers to Masala Chai.
The London vernacular used to be "a cup of char", for tea in general. I have not heard that for quite a while (but then again, I haven't been in that part of the UK for awhile).
Interesting info, thanks! For some reason I thought there was more than one kind of chai.
I actually have yet to come across a language where tea isn't either some form of tea tee or similar or of cha chai or similar. Anyone? It used to surprise me, and now I'd be surprised if I came across a language which didn't use a word related to one or other of those.
Anyone know of an example? Even tea that isn't camellia sinensis almost always seems to be tea or chai or some variation thereupon...
if you read Arabic, "shaax" is pronounced like "شاح", or /ʃɑːħ/ if you cannot lol
a bit late here, but: - "podwieczorek" is a meal (also "herbatka"), - "herbata" is a drink (old people might use "czaj" because of russian influence), - "tea leaf" is "liść herbaty" and "leaf tea" is "herbata liściasta", - "teja"? NEVER heard of it. i'm native and pretty sure i'm right ;)
A_User had more success than I did :-)
Note that in Polish, teapot is still czajnik, as in Russian.
According to that list, tea is teja in Polish. I wonder which I trust more, that or Google Translate... In Bulgarian the word is supposed to be Swahili, so it might be Google Translate. :)
The accent on the "e" wouldn't be there in proper Polish, I know that. Polish doesn't have that accent.
Quite likely both teja and herbata are used. Podwieczorek to me sounds like it might be a translation of the English meal called tea.
Oh, you're right about herbata - I'm pretty sure that comes up in the Polish/English course here which I've dabbled in. I seem to remember hearing it called something like chai when I was actually in Poland, but that was a long time ago so things may have changed/I may be misremembering.
I agree podwieczorek sounds more like tea the meal not tea the drink.
Shaax I'd honestly guess came from chai at some point! Or at least, there's enough similarity there I'd be surprised if it was a coincidence.
@moniasto Thank you! Apparently you can't believe everything you read on the internet. :-)
"Podwieczorek" comes from "pod wieczór"-"around evening, time just before the evening starts". It's usually a light meal, which often includes tea; ie. a sandwich + tea. It's not synonymous with just having tea - even if the time may be appropriate when in England (5 o'clock tea time ;) ). You can have "herbatka" with friends at any time, though.
"Tea" is "herbata" - I've never seen thing such as "teja", even in literary works written in old-fashioned style! :P
"Kettle" is "czajnik", though nowadays mostly electrical kettle ("czajnik elektryczny") is used, but "teapot" would be "imbryk" or "czajniczek" (diminutive) - a smaller version, usually with long neck or a "beak" to pour the tea, a handle and a lid.
"Czaj" (pronounced just like чай) is more often than not used:
1) in outdated manner (elder people talking or literary works from over a century ago)
2) if it's used, it's probably when referring to undiluted tea, to be diluted to drink later (think of a very strong, condensed black tea, which would taste horrible and be undrinkable without diluting it a bit).
I'm just a random Polish speaker passing by ;))
Duo: In this case, you do not accept "cup" for "стакан" but in other instances in this same lesson, you do. What's up?
I should also note, that in five+ years of living in Russia (Moscow, Urals, and Siberia), and countless чай питие, I've never heard стакан or чашка mentioned like that. "Будешь чай" or "Можно чай". Sometimes "какой чашка хошешь" if they've got a variety of mugs, but I'm pretty sure I've never heard "xyz OF tea / … чая". Take it for what it's worth.
В некоторых языках слово стакан произносится как истакан (у Даргинцев к пр.). Например в азербайджанском оно пишется как stəkan но читается как istəkan. Это похоже на слово iskola в венгерском языке означающий школа. Присутствие двух согласных в начале слова делает произношение трудным. Поэтому добавляется гласный звук "и". По крайней мере так это объясняют некоторые лингвисты. Есть ли что то похожее в русском языке?
I think there is a question of common meaning here. If I wanted to drink tea, and didn't care much in what container it came, I would ask for a cup of tea, and I wouldn't be upset if it came in a glass.
The question is, if I wanted some tea in Russian, what would I ask for. If the answer is стакан чай, then I think that means a cup of tea is an acceptable translation. If the answer is чашки чай, then it seems that a cup of tea is incorrect after all. Of course, if the answer is something different, then I would also say that a cup of tea is incorrect.
You would ask for tea. If you try asking for a стакан чая, you'd be presented with a cylindrical / truncated cone shaped vessel without handles (usually made of glass). If you ask for a bucket of tea (ведро чая), you'll also get you tea in a vessel shaped as a truncated cone, only it will be much larger, it will have a bail handle (the material is likely to be metal or plastic this time). Кувшин (jug) is also a thing. All that assumes that people actually care enough to provide the requested liquid in a specific vessel you asked for.
The line between чашка (cup) and кружка (mug) is rather blurry: although they are formally distinguished, it is not a crime to use the "wrong" word—even less so these days, when a lot of people use cylindrical "mugs" to drink their tea or coffee).
Sometimes words mean just what it says on the tin.
Чаю is an alternative partitive form for чай.
Another noun that has a widely used Partitive-II is народ ("people, nation")–when you mean huge crowds, народу is often used ("много народу" is even more common than "много народа")
So...relating to the grammar of it all. What makes the partitive different from the genitive. They appear to be the same. Й->Я is a male noun declension to genitive, no?
It is the partitive use of the Genitive that we are addressing here. The Genitive has a lot of uses in modern Russian, some of which can be grouped.
A few short masculing nouns have an optional -у-ending partitive, though: чашка чаю, много народу are pretty common (arguably, много народу much more common than много народа).
So the Persian word Estekan meaning a small glass is actually a Russian word. :|
I would assume they both come from some other, common origin, say Turkish. Russian has many words from Turkish origin, a common cause for vocabulary differences with other Slavic languages. Someone above said Azerbaijani also has istakan, which might also point in the same direction, though I guess that could also be a Russian influence. Anyone with center-European Slavic language?
According to the etymology in wiktionary, the word was acquired already on Old East Slavic (достаканъ), from Turkic origin, taken itself from Persian دوستگان (dustgân).
But the modern Persian استکان (estekân) would be a borrowing from the modern стакан
I don't even care about the cup vs glass controversy. I got it wrong with "glass of tea" for not having the "a" at the beginning. :/
They accept cup as a translation in the other instances but not here. It is the lack of consistency that geta me.
Just a simple question,, when does стакан change from A glass to A cup? Стакан чая, A glass of tea. Стакан риса, A cup of rice. Is that not чашка or чашечка? or any other kind of measurement container?
i'm just a bit confused because correct me if i'm wrong but they said "стакан риса" = a cup of rice, so i thought "a cup of tea" would be a correct translation to this, especially since it's used more often than "a glass of tea". no?
When I answered 'glass of rice' for стакан риса it told me an alternative would have been 'cup of rice', so couldn't cup of tea be a viable alternative? Maybe all the glasses were dirty and there were only cups left?
"Стакан риса" is said to mean "a cup of rice so... that's kinda confusing to me :/
"a glass of rice" made duo suggest that "cup" would be also okay so why cannot I use "a cup of tea" when it's " стакан" as well?
The first time i typed "a glass of tea" and it said it could also mean "a cup of tea", but now that i type it in nooo "стакан only means glass now"