"The bag is near the table."

Translation:Сумка возле стола.

November 7, 2015

39 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ens5
  • 1236

Why does Возле стола сумка not work here? We have just been having a whole series of exercises emphasizing that usually the where comes before the what in Russian. What makes this situation different?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Leucistristia

Because it is about THE bag and not A bag. The where comes before the what when the English phrase begins with 'there is/are"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stephen-Ruski

Okay you've totally screwed me up. The we're in this case is the table. The what is the bag. So you are saying that the table should come before the bag. If that's true, then it should be, возле стола сумка.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Erwanchik

I think she meant that because the subject is "the bag" and not "a bag" we are talking here about a defined subject. We know which bag is referred to and the sentence is about the location of that particular bag; therefore the emphasis is on the table, which is what is put at the end. Whereas, if it had been "a bag", we would be talking about any bag and so the sentence would be about what is next to the table, in which case the emphasis would be about the bag and the structure with the locatif complement coming first is the one which would apply. Grammatically, both are correct but i guess Duo forces us to translate that way so that we understand the difference.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nicole547998

Thanks a lot! That really helped! :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ens5
  • 1236

At this point, some years after first reading this response, I'm now wondering whether it is actually an issue of A vs THE, or whether it is in fact a question of not having THERE IS at the beginning of the sentence. What word order would be used to translate "A bag is near the table.", "A bag is near a table", "There's the table, near a bag." or "There's the bag, near a table!"? It seems that the Russian word order depends on which piece of the sentence is being emphasized, and that the definite or indefinite nature of the article used in English often provides that information but sometimes does not, and if emphasis in the English is desired other structures will often be supplied (but often an English speaker might be interested primarily in the spatial relationship between a bag and a table, with no particular interest about the individual object otherwise).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stephen-Ruski

Or are you saying, that that is the general rule, but when the sentence uses the instead of a, you switch that around?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LucianoTra2

I think your example means "there is a bag near the table", which is a different thing.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ben-S

Why is 'table' used in the genitive case (стола) and not prepositional (столе)?

Is this just a rule applied when you use 'возле'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AdamLong6

It's not on the table, so you don't use prepostional. It's near it. Though I would have that you should use instrumental for spatial relationships.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Michael_Aye

Would "близко" also be okay instead of "возле"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Joseph_Pate

Возле/около are prepositions. They require an object (mom is near the dog).

Близко (and it's antonym далеко) is an adverb. It modifes a verb and doesnt take an object (the bell is ringing nearby).

At least that's how i understand it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pang1968

Having had near misses several times, I can tell you that both close and near function as both adverbs and adjectives.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/David819731

is стол here in the genitive?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gacowi1

Why not около стола сумка


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/birbed

Why isn't "Возле стола лежат сумка" acceptable? It seems to be in line with everything I've learned so far, but it was marked wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/odinym

Because it's right to write возле стола лежит сумка, but there is no word lies (лежать), better сумка находится возле стола.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MADOUF

why is it стола and not стол ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Michael_Aye

because Возле goes with genitive, and genitive of стол is стола


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stephen-Ruski

Why is возле стола сумка not correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OldBoyan

Which question does this sentence answers? Где сумка?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Julesgarr

why is this genitive


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ens5
  • 1236

See either of the comments above in this list by Jeffrey855877. (or some of the other comments). Often it is useful to see if the prior responses have addressed your question already, or for that matter to see if there are other issues with a given example that you hadn't previously considered.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mstals

Shouldn't "Сумка не далеко от стола" be acceptable?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zirkul
Mod
Plus
  • 2612

Недалеко = close
Не далеко = not far


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ben883077

Why стола and not столе? I thought the latter was genetive, as in 'на столе', no?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NMasdoufi

Please when do we use сумка,сумке and stuff like these, because I still could not figure it out .


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeteGeisle

My computer says сумка возле СТУЛЕ The bag is near the CHAIR. Am I missing something?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Krandementor

So... Возле does not mean "near whatever" but "in the proximity of whatever". The proximity is owned by the whatever our poor bag is close to. Now it makes sense.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HienzTayon

why not столе?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zirkul
Mod
Plus
  • 2612

"возле/у/недалеко от" all take genitive, which is "стола".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Michel723614

why do you count wrong : возле стола сумка ? 1st: the place ... !


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ivicalazich91

Возле стола сумка was suddenly not accepted while literally every other example with возле as the first word was accepted. Reported it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenjaminKi836152

So in this course: "The chair is on the grass." — Стул стоит на траве. "My gift is in the bag." — Мои подарок лежит в сумке. Both of these have a subject that is definite—"the chair", "my gift", and both are accompanied by a location verb. The explanation given is that this verb is necessary when describing the location of a definite subject.

"The bag is near the table." — Сумка возле стола. Here we have a definite subject ("the bag") and a sentence that clearly describes the location, but no verb. Why is that? Does возле function differently than на and в? Does a bag not need to "stand" or "lie"? Or else, why does this sentence function differently than other sentences parallel to it?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kundoo

The verb is optional in all three cases. You can say "стул на траве", "мой подарок в сумке" and "сумка возле стола", as well as you can say "стул стоит на траве", "мой подарок лежит в сумке" and "сумка лежит возле стола". There's no particular reason why the main translations in different sentences are different except maybe to teach you both versions.

Learn Russian in just 5 minutes a day. For free.