"Чего там нет?"

Translation:What isn't there?

3 years ago

74 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/ID-007
ID-007
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Could someone point out the 'main' difference(s) between 'Chego' and 'Chto'? A URL reference would be fine.

Thanks for putting this course together!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Norrius
Norrius
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The only difference is in the case. «Что» is the nominative (or accusative) form, «чего» is the genitive. See the declension chart on Wiktionary.

3 years ago

[deactivated user]

    Why is this sentence genitive?

    2 years ago

    https://www.duolingo.com/Norrius
    Norrius
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    You know how in German you ask wer/wen/wem depending on the function of the part you want to learn more about? For example:
    Wer bist du? — Ich bin Student. — Nominative
    Wen hast du gesehen? — Ich habe einen Freund gesehen. — Akkusative

    Or, better yet, how in English you can ask who, but also whom? (Who is there? To whom should I send that?) Well, that's the same thing! In Russian, the question words кто and что are subject to case changes.

    The answer to this question would have to use the Genitive case because of the negation: «Там нет книги». Now we replace the bit that we don't know with the question word что, adjust it for the case — чего — and put it to the front, arriving at «Чего там нет?»

    I hope that clears the confusion and, for reference, here's the declension pattern of кто/что (thanks Wiktionary):

    2 years ago

    [deactivated user]

      Thank you very much. I was confused because I didn't know that нет forces genitive. In none of the other languages I've learned until now there was such thing.

      2 years ago

      https://www.duolingo.com/Norrius
      Norrius
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      In none of the other languages

      Well, I wouldn't be so sure about that! :P

      1 year ago

      https://www.duolingo.com/MetroWestJP
      MetroWestJP
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      From what I can gather on the interwebs, use of the genetive in negation is unique to the Slavic languages, though a few of them (Czech, Slovak, Serbo-Croatian) have evolved to use only the accusative in negation and now consider use of the genetive in this situation to be old-fashioned or archaic.

      1 year ago

      https://www.duolingo.com/RAKIYOSHI
      RAKIYOSHI
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      What about French? Je n'ai pas de singe.

      1 year ago

      https://www.duolingo.com/AmisticaRMA

      If чего is genitive, that would mean the line with the Р is the genitive line? (And what are these abbreviations standing for, since they are not in the order I imagined them to be in?)

      2 years ago

      https://www.duolingo.com/Norrius
      Norrius
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      This is actually the default order of cases, at least for native materials.

      Именительный — Nominative
      Родительный — Genitive
      Дательный — Dative
      Винительный — Accusative
      Творительный — Instrumental
      Предложный — Prepositional

      2 years ago

      https://www.duolingo.com/Norrius
      Norrius
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      It is what it is for historical reasons, and I'm pretty sure it's not the best option if you're a learner. For one thing, Accusative should really be between Nominative and Genitive.

      I'm a native speaker so I neither really care about this nor can advise what is the best for learning, but your concern is valid. The default case order in German is also NGDA, but if you use NADG, the tables suddenly become much easier to memorise.

      2 years ago

      https://www.duolingo.com/Rewm
      Rewm
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      Not sure why the order would be different, maybe the textbook author had a "better" idea about the ordering. AFAIK all (native) grammars of Slavic, German, Latin, Greek ... languages use NGDA order, with some variation only at vocative, prepositional, instrumental, ablative, locative etc

      2 years ago

      https://www.duolingo.com/AmisticaRMA

      Okay. I have a couple different books, and so I double checked, and sure enough, they have them in different orders than what you show. I find that confusing, as I am a visual learner and would like just one chart that was consistant. Guess I will just have to pick one. Is there any particular reason for the Russian default order? Maybe I should just use that one, since there must be a reason for putting it in that order.

      2 years ago

      https://www.duolingo.com/AmisticaRMA

      Gotcha. I will just stick with my book, then. Thanks!

      2 years ago

      https://www.duolingo.com/Julie114840

      In Latin, I learned Nom, Acc, Gen, Dative, Ablative.

      1 year ago

      https://www.duolingo.com/Shermur

      Would "что нет там" also be a valid sentence ? If so, would "книга нет там" be a valid answer to that question ?

      1 year ago

      https://www.duolingo.com/Norrius
      Norrius
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      I apologise, I thought you were the person who asked the question.

      I didn't realise the word order was different from the one in the original sentence, but the wrong case stuck out like a broken rib. I guess my perception of the language might be a bit different due to being a native speaker...

      Okay, so «чего нет там?» is of course valid, but puts heavy emphasis on the last word: “what's missing there that you can find elsewhere?”. Duo's version is more neutral.

      1 year ago

      https://www.duolingo.com/Norrius
      Norrius
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      I'm not sure what the word order has to do with anything. Your case is off, so the sentence is ungrammatical and doesn't mean anything in particular.

      1 year ago

      https://www.duolingo.com/Norrius
      Norrius
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      Both times no.

      1 year ago

      https://www.duolingo.com/detailaddict

      Why not? What would the first sentence actually mean? The correct answer would translate as, "What is there not?" so if I were trying to ask, "What isn't there?" I might well use this word order. Likewise for the answer.

      1 year ago

      https://www.duolingo.com/detailaddict

      Well it seemed that word order was Shemur's (not my) point; I actually didn't notice the change in case. So if the sentence had been "Чего нет там," would this be correct?

      1 year ago

      https://www.duolingo.com/Immanueldavid

      Thanks!

      2 years ago

      https://www.duolingo.com/-HystErica-
      -HystErica-
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      Thank you for your detailed and informative posts =)

      2 years ago

      https://www.duolingo.com/truelefty
      truelefty
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      I want to give you lingots but I'm on mobile :(

      2 years ago

      https://www.duolingo.com/_Maria_B._
      _Maria_B._
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      How do you give someone a lightly?

      2 years ago

      https://www.duolingo.com/_Maria_B._
      _Maria_B._
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      Oops! I meant lingot.

      2 years ago

      https://www.duolingo.com/HopperKremer
      HopperKremer
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      You can give one lingot at a time to other users on the full website only.

      1 year ago

      https://www.duolingo.com/DavidG430

      Really good answer Norrius

      1 year ago

      https://www.duolingo.com/Norrius
      Norrius
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      The question is in the genitive because the answer would be in the genitive.

      2 years ago

      [deactivated user]

        What? Could you give me an example?

        2 years ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/Djhstegeby
        Djhstegeby
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        Нет and не forces genitive. Kinda like "none OF that". There's a lack of something.

        2 years ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/StarTiny
        StarTiny
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        Better than genitive, i would say it's a partitive

        2 years ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/Norrius
        Norrius
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        Possible, but the Partitive/Genitive distinction is not super important here.

        2 years ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/chirelchirel
        chirelchirel
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        \o/ then it's exactly like in Finnish :)

        2 years ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/ID-007
        ID-007
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        Thanks for the explanation and the great reference Norrius!

        3 years ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/JewishPolyglot
        JewishPolyglot
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        Ah... now it makes sense! Have a lingot!

        2 years ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/HopperKremer
        HopperKremer
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        Just wanted to point out that it's really cheVo here. The pronunciation of the consonant Г changes.

        1 year ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/jairapetyan
        jairapetyan
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        It's strange... I opened this discussion to see if anyone had commented on the spelling of чего -- I had put a в -- and instead saw all the comments on cases. I'm great at grammar as long as it was the mechanics of English or a Romance language, but for Russian I hardly understand the explanations. Luckily I can still breeze through the course (so far) because I am familiar with the spoken language. I am learning Russian like a child...

        Is anybody else closing their heads to the grammatical notes?

        3 years ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/Madame-patate

        Hehe, yes, at first I read every lesson and comment I could find but my attention became fleeting and now I'm learning like a child too x)

        2 years ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/Shady330
        Shady330
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        Same here and same with all languages I'm learning, I don't understand anything of this genetive, nominative or whatever... I just make mistakes sometimes and over practice and time I start developing an intuition to the language instead of memorizing irregulars and complicated grammatical terms and rules which I'll most likely forget in the near future, I find this way much more productive for the long term. Besides, I think it's much more fun trying to guess patterns and form sentences on your own rather than memorizing templates like a robot, plus it's really rewarding to see that you quickly pick the right choice again and again out of pure intuition, I must also note that I find this attitude to language learning the most natural.

        2 years ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/SV6y

        I have been studying Russian for years thinking that I must properly learn all grammar to be understood. This approach has made me afraid of mistakes so I don't speak, but I know many Russian children that speak the languge all the time and can't explain anything about grammar. This is what I like about duo lingo, you can dig deeper into grammar or just go with intuition. Everyone learns differently but I have made more progress going with intuition on duo lingo, than studying grammar books for years. For me studying grammar books was a waste of time.I can't explain much about English grammar either and I don't care, I just speak it, and read it. ( Can't write or spell though, it is just how my mind works.)

        2 years ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/LukaVukZrinski

        So...

        Что там?

        Но: Чего там нет?

        ?

        2 years ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/Dotters

        Нет always requires the genitive:

        • «У меня собака.» but «У меня нет собаки.»

        • «Здесь есть телевизор.» but «Здесь нет телевизора.»

        • «Выход есть!» but «Выхода нет!»

        • and so, «Что там?» but «Чего там нет?»

        2 years ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/John495488

        "What's missing" is marked incorrect. Is this an oversight in the software, or is the meaning different?

        2 years ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/R_Andersson

        I have the same question!

        2 years ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/yasmine_y
        yasmine_y
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        It's probably a completely different word...

        4 months ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/Rekty
        Rekty
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        What would be a litteral translation of this sentence? I want to understand the use of the genitive. Something like "of what isn't there?"...

        3 years ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/Norrius
        Norrius
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        It's similar to how you'd say «там нет (чего?) ничего» with the genitive to signify negation.

        3 years ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/Rekty
        Rekty
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        Oh like Чего (у меня) там нет = What don't (I) have there? It's genitive because of the absence of something?

        3 years ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/Norrius
        Norrius
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        When you use нет (не было, не будет), whatever lacks is in genitive (and «у меня» has nothing to do with it).

        There are different situations when you express the lack of something, and sometimes the usage of genitive would be a mistake: «Они не продают книг/книги» ("they don't sell books"), but «Они не всегда продают книги» ("they don't always sell books").

        3 years ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/Rekty
        Rekty
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        So if I got it right: In one case, it is linked to the noun, in the other to всегда. And всегда doesn't change because it is not a noun, right? But overal, if there is не/нет (a negation), you always need to use the genitive case for the noun next to it?

        EDIT: You can either книг and книги because in one case the не is linked to the verb "I don't sell" and in the other it is linked to the fact that "I sell no books", right?

        3 years ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/Norrius
        Norrius
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        As to your edit: no, there is no real reasoning. Originally you always had to use Genitive, but the standard changed under the influence of the colloquial language. I guess people just couldn't figure out that the accusative case goes with affirmation and the genitive with negation :)

        3 years ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/Norrius
        Norrius
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        Correct! But note that sometimes you can also either one, so «Они не продают книги» is fine.

        3 years ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/Rekty
        Rekty
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        I couldn't reply to you, but I didnt think of replying to myself lol... Ok thank you!

        3 years ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/stillePoeten
        stillePoeten
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        Thank you for your detailed answers. They are very helpful!

        21 hours ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/R_Andersson

        ‘What is missing there?’ is not accepted, although it sounds more natural to me. Any reason why it is not accepted?

        2 years ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/MichelleOs899172
        MichelleOs899172
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        I swear that the voice sounds like чево, no matter that the correct word is чегою

        2 years ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/R_Andersson

        Yes, that is correct. чего is pronounced [чево] because of historical reasons. Just like кого is pronounced ково, and the same goes with every adjective inclined for the genitive case and for neuter and masculine nouns.

        Чего [чево] там нет? – Там нет моего любимого мороженного (pronounced [моево любимово мороженново]).

        It’s a historical spelling, just like in French or in English.

        2 years ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/yashamax

        Are there some regional accents of Russian where the г in чего is actually pronounced like and English g? Is so, where? Thanks

        2 years ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/R_Andersson

        I really don‘t know, since I have not been exposed much to Russian dialects and I am not a native speaker. After seaching a while on the Internet, posted in a forum. According to the user called Basil77, who lives in Moscow, ‘99,9% of native speakers pronounce "в" here.’ Therefor, no, I don‘t think there are any Russian dialects that pronounce the genitive ending -ого/-его with a [g].

        Here‘s his full post: ‘I'd say it's a good question. 99,9% of native speakers pronounce "в" here. The kids who are learning to write always ask the opposite question: “Why I should write "г" here if I pronounce "в" ?”’

        P.S. I don‘t really think you should call that sound the ‘English g’ since the letter G can be pronounced several ways in English: either like the actual [g] sound, like in ‘god’ or ‘bag’, like [ŋ] in the diagraph ng (e.g. ‘bang’) or like the voiced palato-alveolar fricative [ʒ] like in ‘bridge’ or [dodge]. One extreme example of this is the gerund ‘garaging’ pronounced [ˈɡæɹɑːʒiŋ].

        2 years ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/R_Andersson

        Does Russian distinguish between when something is not there and is missing? I put ‘What is missing there?’ but is was not excepted. Why?

        1 year ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/Dotters

        This is the opinion of a non-native speaker so take it with a grain of salt, but I would use «Этого не хватает.» to say something is missing (so in this context, «Чего там не хватает?».) In my mind, when you say something is missing you're implying that things would be better if it was there, hence не хватать. Here, you're just asking about the absence of something.

        1 year ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/R_Andersson

        OK. Thanks for responding! Спасибо большое за ответ!

        1 year ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/websmasha

        Norrius' profile pic is so awesome(don't notice it? Look atthe eyes)!

        1 year ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/Yuri-Isaenko

        "what is absent there?" - is it right?

        3 years ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/JewishPolyglot
        JewishPolyglot
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        Report it and see if they start accepting it

        2 years ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/GuidoSassi
        GuidoSassi
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        Is "Что там нет?" meaningless? Could it be like "what is not there?"

        2 years ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/Nicola745362

        How do you report smthg? (btw if theres one characteristic all my jewish acquaintances share its that theyre multilingual...kudos!) спосибо everyone

        2 years ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/Rekty
        Rekty
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        There are report buttons that show up next to "Correct Answer" or "Wrong Answer".

        By the way, it's not спосибо. It's спасибо.

        2 years ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/rapherrera
        rapherrera
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        Is the declension necessary only because of the negative? In this example?

        2 years ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/poverty2

        Suggestion: "What is there none of?"

        1 year ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/yasmine_y
        yasmine_y
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        I think that would require "ничего" or something similar. (?)

        4 months ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/Germanophile22

        Is "Чего," in this case, accusative or genitive?

        10 months ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/Dotters

        Genitive, called for by нет. In addition, using что to refer to animate objects is considered non-standard, so the proper form of что in the accusative is always что.

        10 months ago
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