"детская тарелка"
Translation:a children's plate
56 CommentsThis discussion is locked.
37
Only the plate. Children meal - детская еда, children menu - детское меню, children portion - детская порция.
1312
Tс does sound the same as ц: Both are transliterated into the Latin alphabet as "ts." Your spelling probably was thrown off because you did not recognize детский as the adjectival form for дети.
My impression is that in ц the /t/ sound is softer and shorter, as they see ц as a single sound - while in careful pronunciation, one would emphasize more the two distinct sounds /ts/, making the occlusive /t/ harsher, the /s/ longer and even a short separation between them, if one actually wants to be the clearest. /Ts/ on other hand is produced with a single tongue tip movement.
Of course any audible difference vanishes in careless or hasty pronunciation.
-ск, -еск, -ьск is one of about a dozen primary adjective forming suffixes in Russian: рус-ск-ий, Russian; дет-ск-ий, infantile, child's; юнош-еск-ий, adolescent, youthful; приятел-ск-ий, friend's, friendly; учитель-ск-ий, teachers. (Examples from "Roots of the Russian Language" by George Z. Patrick published by NTC Publishing Group, Lincolnwood, Illinois, USA, (c) 1989, 1981.)
Thanks! By the way, I think you may be able to find the "Roots ..." book on the Internet if you Google for it. I think it is pretty good for expanding your vocabulary.
From the foreword to the book, I note that it "includes four hundred and fifty of the most commonly used roots of the Russian language. ... Once students achieve an understanding and mastery of the basic Russian suffixes and prefixes, they will be able to recognize, identify, and decipher words into their component parts. With this skill established, they should also develop an ability to construct many words and terms from a given Russian root."
I think I will try using the book with my son, who will be taking the ЕГЭ (see http://ege.edu.ru/) at the end of the next school year. It might reduce the frequency of типа, такой, and круто in his conversation.
Yes, the ЕГЭ is the government administered exam at the end of school. The scores on it tend to determine what college you could attend.
типа - of the type; такой - such; крутой - good, powerful, super (depending on the expressive emphasis) круто is the short-form neuter, used in statements like "Это круто" or "Было бы круто, если ..."
Maybe because "dish" is a broader category that includes utensils other than plates? (Not native Russian speaker: I am making the assumption that тарелка has a meaning that directly corresponds to "plate".)
Edit: after the extremely helpful discussion with mosfet07, it appears that I was wrong: the meaning of тарелка corresponds directly with dish, although without any qualifier, it means plate.
I now agree - "dish" ought to be accepted.
I hope mosfet will come back and comment again, but I read the picture-laced comment as detailing the different words for different kinds of dishes, not implying that 'тарелка' includes all these kinds of dishes. After all the word тарелка didn't appear in most of the names, and I might well call the second example a 'soup plate' (and in fact, this search term finds many exemplars).
Russian has the word посуда, which, although singular, is equivalent in many situations to how we'd use the plural form 'dishes'.
For example: http://context.reverso.net/translation/english-russian/dish
Basically all the translations of 'dish' to 'тарелка' were for satellite dishes. For actual dishes of the kitchen type, its use seems restricted to statements of the type "washed every single dish" / "didn't wash even a single dish". Obviously choosing тарелка over блюдо there simply goes along with the all-encompassing nature of those statements.
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that тарелка encompassed миска and блю́до, but it does seem to be broader than simply plate (which was my original understanding of the word).
My response was lengthy precisely because it doesn't seem that there are any exact word matches.
I certainly don't think that dish only means блю́до (which I thought mosfet had suggested), although it is certainly useful to know that it shares the metaphorical use of the vessel as a reference to the meal that dish does in English.
Oh, I have found this discussion most fascinating - among other things enlightening me as to the dialectal differences in English that arise in this area. On this side of the pond, my friends and I were unanimous, we'd never include plates in the category 'utensils'! :) So when I read the sentence "broader than simply plate" I now suspect I may have something of a different idea in mind! mosfet's particular суповая тарелка stretches the bounds of 'plate' for me, but most of the Google image results look a good deal more 'plate like'. So the only case that for me clearly isn't a plate is миска. Блюда and блюдца certainly fit within my overarching category of 'plate'. [and if that verbosity is what you meant, then, indeed, we are in perfect idiolectical concord, and I salute you for expressing it more pithily!]
As for the 'metaphorical' use, I am a Minnesotan by origin; "hot dish" is practically a food group of it's own! And doesn't much refer to any sort of vessel at all! Gotta love lexicalized metonymy! :)
Metaphorically, any relatively flat and big round (usually not oval) thing may be called "тарелка". Some parts of machinery, for example.
"супова́я тарелка" differs from "миска" in that it is usually more flat and wide and less vertical in cross section, and can have wide edges like on this picture:
PS You can visit one of tableware ("посуда") selling web shops, like this one http://www.posuda.ru (see Приготовление and Сервировка there), and see what is what.
I agree, this is fascinating - I was aware of many dialectal differences on the subject of meals and foodstuffs, but had not been aware that this extended to the vessels used to contain them. It does seem that my understanding of what constitutes a plate is a much narrower definition than yours, and that is where some of the confusion has arisen.
As to "hot dish" - I had to Google to understand what you meant (as my mind had strayed to a meaning totally unrelated to food!)
Other than that a plate for machinery in English could even well be rectangular, I notice the "big" portion of your answer. I personally (perhaps my eccentricity) consider saucers a kind of plate. However, if someone asked for a plate, I'd never just hand them a saucer. They'd ask for a saucer if that's what they wanted. Is it more or less the same for тарелка and блюдце?
Regarding "hot dish," one meaning of "dish" in English is a serving of food(s) as in "choose a dish from the menu." It can also mean some prepared food as in "macaroni and cheese is an easy dish to make." This is a common meaning in Russian, as can be seen from the menu at http://колобок-кафе.рф/assorti.php -- note the column heading "Название блюда" and the categories "Первые блюда" and "Вторые блюда."
Also note the categories for the basic question "Довольны ли Вы ассортиментом предлагаемых блюд?" in the survey form at http://колобок-кафе.рф/opros.php. Are the dishes delicious? (Вкусные ли блюда?)
1312
Piguy3,
American and Canadian English are linguistically more conservative than British English, which has gone off in new directions.
This is "супова́я тарелка" (for soup, which is often a first course):
This is "тарелка" (usually for a second course):
There is also "десе́ртная тарелка" (for dessert), which is usually smaller, less deep and can be not round.
This is "миска" (a bowl), used for serving some kinds of soup and food, preparing food, feeding animals and so on:
This is "блю́до" ("блю́до" is also "meal"), a big flat oval plate, that what you call a dish, I suppose:
This is "блю́дце" (a saucer) with a cup, used as a support for a cup and for serving individual cake portions:
Thus UFOs are "flying plates" in Russian and "летающие блюдца" in English, so Russian UFOs are bigger :)
Thank you Mosfet. That is extremely helpful - amd clarifies everything! It seems that dish is actually the more accurate translation of тарелка: all your first 3 тарелки are dishes, as is the блю́до (normally called a serving dish or platter) and also a миска, when it is eaten from, rather than simply used in food preparation.
In short, a dish is any utensil from which food is eaten - although in phrases such as "washing the dishes" cups and saucers are generally included.
And if I see any extra-large UFOs, I will now know where they came from... ;)
First, the plural of ребёнок was historically ребята, with the adjective form ребячий. Дети is the plural of дитя, with the adjective form детский. Using дитя to refer to a child is now obsolete, and ребята is now commonly used with an expanded meaning like "fellows, guys, kids, friends/acquaintances" as in "Ребятя, давай выпим!" "Guys, let's drink up!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKjec_IJtkY (words are in the description at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lATOvYF5kZ4).
Consequently, дети is now used as the plural of ребёнок in the narrow meaning of "child, children" and дитя (the singular of дети) is rarely used and then usually in special senses such as "дитя нашего времени" "a child of our times."
Second, whether we prefer "child's" or "children's" as a translation of детский depends on the English usage: детская одежда - children's clothing, детская рубашка - a child's shirt, детская тарелка - a child's plate, детские тарелки - children's plates.
863
If it is true, as stated by QurtQurt, a year ago that Russian doesn't have the phrase детская тарелка, then it should also be pointed out we don't have that phrase in England either!
The only way we could say that phrase as a noun would be child-plate., that is a plate specifically made for children. Putting the apostrophe in in English makes it a specific child's plate, which is not what I think is the intended meaning in the Russian, which I would assume would be written in Russian with the nominative for plate and genitive for child.
Putting the apostrophe in English would mean a (specific) child's plate. But normally we would say a child's plate with both words being nouns...the plate of a child - certainly not as an adjective. Child is never an adjective in English.
If we were in a shop, however, buying plates suitable for children, we would say children's plates - children's here is still a possessive noun, ie plates of children (which sounds odd) - imagine a big plate with children sitting on it!! -or we are mean plates (suitable) for children.
I selected these 3 word choices: "children, 's, plate". It was accepted, but It said "you have an extra space". But I didn't have an extra space: I didn't type each letter, I selected from the list of words (you can't add a space even if you wanted to). Reported 10-7-21: "something else went wrong".