"детская тарелка"
Translation:a children's plate
56 CommentsThis discussion is locked.
I'm curious, would you use this to describe a children's meal/portion, or only the actual plate they are eating from?
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Only the plate. Children meal - детская еда, children menu - детское меню, children portion - детская порция.
? Nouns ending in -а and -я are the vast majority of the time feminine, as they are here.
I think "kid's" should be added as a translation of "детский", you know where you on top where you can click on the word and translations pop up.
I am just curious about one pronunciation aspect: does тс sound the same as ц? I am asking because I was trying to write the sentence phonetically but I used ц instead of тс.
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Tс does sound the same as ц: Both are transliterated into the Latin alphabet as "ts." Your spelling probably was thrown off because you did not recognize детский as the adjectival form for дети.
My impression is that in ц the /t/ sound is softer and shorter, as they see ц as a single sound - while in careful pronunciation, one would emphasize more the two distinct sounds /ts/, making the occlusive /t/ harsher, the /s/ longer and even a short separation between them, if one actually wants to be the clearest. /Ts/ on other hand is produced with a single tongue tip movement.
Of course any audible difference vanishes in careless or hasty pronunciation.
I see here a suffix, not sure whether it's -ска- or just -ск-. Does it just make an adjective out of a noun or is it more specific? In other words: is it the same as the English -ish or romance languages -ic-?
-ск, -еск, -ьск is one of about a dozen primary adjective forming suffixes in Russian: рус-ск-ий, Russian; дет-ск-ий, infantile, child's; юнош-еск-ий, adolescent, youthful; приятел-ск-ий, friend's, friendly; учитель-ск-ий, teachers. (Examples from "Roots of the Russian Language" by George Z. Patrick published by NTC Publishing Group, Lincolnwood, Illinois, USA, (c) 1989, 1981.)
Thanks! By the way, I think you may be able to find the "Roots ..." book on the Internet if you Google for it. I think it is pretty good for expanding your vocabulary.
From the foreword to the book, I note that it "includes four hundred and fifty of the most commonly used roots of the Russian language. ... Once students achieve an understanding and mastery of the basic Russian suffixes and prefixes, they will be able to recognize, identify, and decipher words into their component parts. With this skill established, they should also develop an ability to construct many words and terms from a given Russian root."
You’ve read my mind, it’s exactly the reason of my asking about this in the first place :D
I think I will try using the book with my son, who will be taking the ЕГЭ (see http://ege.edu.ru/) at the end of the next school year. It might reduce the frequency of типа, такой, and круто in his conversation.
Sorry, I guess the ЕГЭ is a test but I have no clue what the other three words are about.
Yes, the ЕГЭ is the government administered exam at the end of school. The scores on it tend to determine what college you could attend.
типа - of the type; такой - such; крутой - good, powerful, super (depending on the expressive emphasis) круто is the short-form neuter, used in statements like "Это круто" or "Было бы круто, если ..."
My mother tongue is American (English), and the son's mother tongue is Russian.
HAHA now I get it, my siblings also tend to use such kind of words even in our mother tongue (Italian)
I think they are called "filling words" and are just meant to fill gaps while not communicating content, when you don't know the exact words.
Like, you know, kinda going around things instead of, you know, kinda facing them...
As far as I have noticed, adjective terminations -ий, -ая, etc are really compressed in normal speech. So yes, at best you'd hear something like "ditska'a".
Maybe because "dish" is a broader category that includes utensils other than plates? (Not native Russian speaker: I am making the assumption that тарелка has a meaning that directly corresponds to "plate".)
Edit: after the extremely helpful discussion with mosfet07, it appears that I was wrong: the meaning of тарелка corresponds directly with dish, although without any qualifier, it means plate.
I now agree - "dish" ought to be accepted.
I hope mosfet will come back and comment again, but I read the picture-laced comment as detailing the different words for different kinds of dishes, not implying that 'тарелка' includes all these kinds of dishes. After all the word тарелка didn't appear in most of the names, and I might well call the second example a 'soup plate' (and in fact, this search term finds many exemplars).
Russian has the word посуда, which, although singular, is equivalent in many situations to how we'd use the plural form 'dishes'.
For example: http://context.reverso.net/translation/english-russian/dish
Basically all the translations of 'dish' to 'тарелка' were for satellite dishes. For actual dishes of the kitchen type, its use seems restricted to statements of the type "washed every single dish" / "didn't wash even a single dish". Obviously choosing тарелка over блюдо there simply goes along with the all-encompassing nature of those statements.
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that тарелка encompassed миска and блю́до, but it does seem to be broader than simply plate (which was my original understanding of the word).
My response was lengthy precisely because it doesn't seem that there are any exact word matches.
I certainly don't think that dish only means блю́до (which I thought mosfet had suggested), although it is certainly useful to know that it shares the metaphorical use of the vessel as a reference to the meal that dish does in English.
Oh, I have found this discussion most fascinating - among other things enlightening me as to the dialectal differences in English that arise in this area. On this side of the pond, my friends and I were unanimous, we'd never include plates in the category 'utensils'! :) So when I read the sentence "broader than simply plate" I now suspect I may have something of a different idea in mind! mosfet's particular суповая тарелка stretches the bounds of 'plate' for me, but most of the Google image results look a good deal more 'plate like'. So the only case that for me clearly isn't a plate is миска. Блюда and блюдца certainly fit within my overarching category of 'plate'. [and if that verbosity is what you meant, then, indeed, we are in perfect idiolectical concord, and I salute you for expressing it more pithily!]
As for the 'metaphorical' use, I am a Minnesotan by origin; "hot dish" is practically a food group of it's own! And doesn't much refer to any sort of vessel at all! Gotta love lexicalized metonymy! :)
Metaphorically, any relatively flat and big round (usually not oval) thing may be called "тарелка". Some parts of machinery, for example.
"супова́я тарелка" differs from "миска" in that it is usually more flat and wide and less vertical in cross section, and can have wide edges like on this picture:
PS You can visit one of tableware ("посуда") selling web shops, like this one http://www.posuda.ru (see Приготовление and Сервировка there), and see what is what.
I agree, this is fascinating - I was aware of many dialectal differences on the subject of meals and foodstuffs, but had not been aware that this extended to the vessels used to contain them. It does seem that my understanding of what constitutes a plate is a much narrower definition than yours, and that is where some of the confusion has arisen.
As to "hot dish" - I had to Google to understand what you meant (as my mind had strayed to a meaning totally unrelated to food!)
Thank you for the latest picture mosfet. I would agree that if it has broad edges, it cannot be a bowl either. So it seems that our understanding is similar, and that the difference between plate and dish is, at least partly, arising from differences between American and British English.
Other than that a plate for machinery in English could even well be rectangular, I notice the "big" portion of your answer. I personally (perhaps my eccentricity) consider saucers a kind of plate. However, if someone asked for a plate, I'd never just hand them a saucer. They'd ask for a saucer if that's what they wanted. Is it more or less the same for тарелка and блюдце?
Ah, two countries separated by a common language!
One of these days I am seriously going to propose a new Duo course: English for American speakers :)
@piguy3
Yes, if you want блюдце, you should ask for блюдце, otherwise you will be corrected by a person you're asking. By default, тарелка is the thing on the second picture.
Regarding "hot dish," one meaning of "dish" in English is a serving of food(s) as in "choose a dish from the menu." It can also mean some prepared food as in "macaroni and cheese is an easy dish to make." This is a common meaning in Russian, as can be seen from the menu at http://колобок-кафе.рф/assorti.php -- note the column heading "Название блюда" and the categories "Первые блюда" and "Вторые блюда."
Also note the categories for the basic question "Довольны ли Вы ассортиментом предлагаемых блюд?" in the survey form at http://колобок-кафе.рф/opros.php. Are the dishes delicious? (Вкусные ли блюда?)
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Piguy3,
American and Canadian English are linguistically more conservative than British English, which has gone off in new directions.
'тарелка' is the perfect equivalent of 'dish'... if you're talking about a satellite dish :)
That is certainly useful to know. :)
So it seems my assumption about the possible shapes of a тарелка is wrong. Can you please elaborate on the range of articles that can be called a тарелка? Plates only, or are other serving dishes (such as bowls, platters, tureens) included?
This is "супова́я тарелка" (for soup, which is often a first course):
This is "тарелка" (usually for a second course):
There is also "десе́ртная тарелка" (for dessert), which is usually smaller, less deep and can be not round.
This is "миска" (a bowl), used for serving some kinds of soup and food, preparing food, feeding animals and so on:
This is "блю́до" ("блю́до" is also "meal"), a big flat oval plate, that what you call a dish, I suppose:
This is "блю́дце" (a saucer) with a cup, used as a support for a cup and for serving individual cake portions:
Thus UFOs are "flying plates" in Russian and "летающие блюдца" in English, so Russian UFOs are bigger :)
Thank you Mosfet. That is extremely helpful - amd clarifies everything! It seems that dish is actually the more accurate translation of тарелка: all your first 3 тарелки are dishes, as is the блю́до (normally called a serving dish or platter) and also a миска, when it is eaten from, rather than simply used in food preparation.
In short, a dish is any utensil from which food is eaten - although in phrases such as "washing the dishes" cups and saucers are generally included.
And if I see any extra-large UFOs, I will now know where they came from... ;)
It's also a musical instrument (in plural, cymbals), and "летающая тарелка" is "flying saucer" (UFO).
Fascinating. Ok, then. If it has such a broad range of uses, would dish be a better translation? How broad a term is it when referring to serving utensils?
Not far from where I live, there is a State Military-Technical Museum with a flying saucer: Государственный Военно-технический музей в Черноголовке. В Музее выставлен уникальный экспонат - настоящая летающая тарелка.
First, the plural of ребёнок was historically ребята, with the adjective form ребячий. Дети is the plural of дитя, with the adjective form детский. Using дитя to refer to a child is now obsolete, and ребята is now commonly used with an expanded meaning like "fellows, guys, kids, friends/acquaintances" as in "Ребятя, давай выпим!" "Guys, let's drink up!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKjec_IJtkY (words are in the description at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lATOvYF5kZ4).
Consequently, дети is now used as the plural of ребёнок in the narrow meaning of "child, children" and дитя (the singular of дети) is rarely used and then usually in special senses such as "дитя нашего времени" "a child of our times."
Second, whether we prefer "child's" or "children's" as a translation of детский depends on the English usage: детская одежда - children's clothing, детская рубашка - a child's shirt, детская тарелка - a child's plate, детские тарелки - children's plates.
You mean like this guy's best buddy, maybe? :) 
Yep, 'детский' is an adjective also meaning 'childish'. Don't hold you breath for the admins to get to around adding it ;) although I'd be pleased to see it happen!
детский дом = children's home, детская тарелка = children's plate. So why do we have two different words? Is 'детск' a hard or a soft stem, because the two examples seem to contradict each other?
The stem is hard. It's spelled детский because к is one of the letters covered by the 7 letter spelling rule.
A quick pronunciation question to you all: i hear that the "я" at the end of "Детская" is pronounced "a" and not "ya". Am i hearing impaired or is it normal? If yes, is there a specific morphological/phonetical rule of the "я" that i should understand ?
A child’s plate is accurate. A plate for children is also good. These are children’s plates is also good. But “A children’s plate” is mixing the tenses, makes no sense, and is bad English.
I really wish they wouldn't split hairs over apostrophes. Most natives make errors on this
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If it is true, as stated by QurtQurt, a year ago that Russian doesn't have the phrase детская тарелка, then it should also be pointed out we don't have that phrase in England either!
The only way we could say that phrase as a noun would be child-plate., that is a plate specifically made for children. Putting the apostrophe in in English makes it a specific child's plate, which is not what I think is the intended meaning in the Russian, which I would assume would be written in Russian with the nominative for plate and genitive for child.
Putting the apostrophe in English would mean a (specific) child's plate. But normally we would say a child's plate with both words being nouns...the plate of a child - certainly not as an adjective. Child is never an adjective in English.
If we were in a shop, however, buying plates suitable for children, we would say children's plates - children's here is still a possessive noun, ie plates of children (which sounds odd) - imagine a big plate with children sitting on it!! -or we are mean plates (suitable) for children.
Дайте ему детскую тарелку? ("Give him a child's plate") Does this make sense?
I selected these 3 word choices: "children, 's, plate". It was accepted, but It said "you have an extra space". But I didn't have an extra space: I didn't type each letter, I selected from the list of words (you can't add a space even if you wanted to). Reported 10-7-21: "something else went wrong".