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  5. "Этот человек у двери."

"Этот человек у двери."

Translation:This person is by the door.

November 8, 2015

88 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/enguard

I understand дверь is the singular for door, yet this appears plural, but its marked as incorrect.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Berniebud

It appears plural, but it's actually the singular genitive form of "Дверь".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/enguard

Thanks for the update. Lots to remember ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/an_alias

But why is genitive used here? I thought genitive was for possession, negation and "some of something" instances. Is it the preposition?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Berniebud

Yes. A couple of prepositions take the genitive case, like "У". For each case there's at least a few prepositions that require it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/slothy117

so how would you know the difference between plural "door" and genitive "door"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zeitschleifer

Let's say it is the same sentence "Этот человек у двери" but it is plural. Then it will be "Этот человек у дверей".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ThatcherHealy

I don't think this sentence is genitive as it does not show possession or negation. I think it is "двери" because is is the prepositional form of "Дверь."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MiledRizk

"У" takes genetives


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BlackboardIdeas

It is similar to English word "scissors". It sounds plural both in plural and singular.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ArturMonnerat

A pair of scissors. They're two. That's why it's plural. Same with glasses, pants, shorts, underpants, etc.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pelayovial

Why use y instead of в? thanks


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sheecko

Because у is something like near or by the door.. Should be в if someone stands in a door that's on the floor Someone corrects me if Im wrong


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rinc10

So why "this person is near the door ",is a wrong answer then ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/steve874001

Living near a market is very different than living at a market.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MetroWestJP

Russian "у" seems to work like German "bei", except for which case it uses, if that helps anyone. (e.g., "Он у меня." = "Er ist bei mir." = "He is at my place.")


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PolySchi

I think it works in French too, "chez-moi".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EranBarLev

But I don't think you can say "chez la porte", so it doesn't help much with this sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gabipinti

I guess the case is Genitive in both cases. Nice comparison.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alanvoe

The German construction "bei mir" uses dative, not genitive.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zeitschleifer

What you mean is usually said as "в дверях" (it sounds by the way as if there are two doors keeping the opening closed. Maybe it could have come from the upper class and something like a palace but I don't really know) and means that the door is open and the person you are talking about is in the opening.

"У двери" means that the door remains closed.

It's rather a big difference in case the mentioned person is unwanted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jrgili

Why not "this person by the door?"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/piguy3

Not a native speaker of Russian, but I think the only problem with your suggestion is that this is punctuated as a complete sentence in Russian (just with the implicit "is"). I think that this would also be fine as your phrase, were the punctuation in accord with that.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tim960327

I think this is purely due to English and the fact that we can imply a word that should be there. Even though what you have written is understood, it is in actual fact grammatically wrong, as there is no verb (in this case to be). 'Is' is the verb that should be in the sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cosimodefusco

What about answering the question "What person?". "That person by the door." In this case, the use of is would be incorrect. How to say that in Russian?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Leonardy575749

In Russian it will be like that: "Какой человек?"- "Этот человек у двери."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vladimir_

It should be accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sergio771381

Exactly. 'is' should not be here. По крайней мере ответ this person by the door не должен считаться ошибкой


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kocmohabt99

is "this man is near the door" wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Orangus

It's not wrong, it's correct.


[deactivated user]

    How do you know it is at 'the' door and not 'a' door?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tim_Shakh

    From the context.


    [deactivated user]

      What would it look like if I were to say 'this person is at a door', then?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Orangus

      Hm, maybe "этот человек у какой-то двери"(literally: this person is at some door)

      Definiteness and undefiniteness is marked by "a/an" and "the" in English, but in Russian such things marked by word order in most cases.


      [deactivated user]

        Thanks, that makes sense.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sinisa.rudan

        Thanks God, forget the articles, when in Russia! :)


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheFinkie

        I think they should both be accepted — just an oversight on Duolingo's part. I have reported.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FreeBird0346

        Wait, I thought возле meant "near/by" ... would that still be acceptable in this sentence? And what is the real difference between возле and у anyway?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ftay98

        whats with all these doors


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/piguy3

        Random speculation: дверь is one of the more common members of Russian's least common noun declension class. It shows up more than one might expect so that learners have a chance to realize that there is a third noun declension class.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marilaam

        Why do we have Genitive here when it was not explained in the grammar notes? Just when i feel comfortable with the plural endings and now adding the prepositional ones, then, this out of nowhere! Did I miss something?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheFinkie

        Isn't у + genitive one of the first things Duolingo teaches? Genitive is certainly very important to learn early on.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marilaam

        Genitive is two units ahead. But all cases are very important indeed.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheFinkie

        I'm not sure what unit this exercise is part of, but "у + genitive" is introduced and explained in Basics 2.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marilaam

        The Basics 2 Unit only teaches the Genitive of some pronouns. It is not the official Genitive section where they explain the rules for nouns. If you take a look at the Tips of Basics 2 it even says they'll explain Genitive later on.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dan964189

        Excellent, у apparently means everything, without ever having it explained.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheFinkie

        It essentially means "by", as in "near".


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pablopublico

        дверь (dverʹ) [dvʲerʲ] "door": From Proto-Slavic *dvьrь, from Proto-Indo-European *dʰwer-, whence English door, Latin foris, Ancient Greek θύρα (thúra), Albanian derë pl. dyer, Central Kurdish دەرگە‎ (derge), derî, Persian در‎ (dar), Hindi द्वार (dvār) / دوار‎ (dvār), Armenian դուռ (duṙ), Irish doras, Welsh dôr and drws, Lithuanian durys, all meaning door.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/User390418

        Why is "This human is by the door" wrong? I thought 'человек' could mean 'human'. If not, then what is the right word for human?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dla17Spanish

        But we haven't been introduced to/presented with the info about "the genitive case" in this course yet, right? I've been trying to focus on one case at a time and researching as I go but will I have to look up and study all of the cases at once to do this course?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gabipinti

        I guess... YES! This is DUO. The learning method is intuitive. Not like a classical grammer cours.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Walbarka

        What is the difference between "этот, это, этом" ?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheFinkie

        Это is "this is", "it is" or the neuter nominative "this".

        Этот is masculine nominative "this".

        Этом is masculine or neuter prepositional "this".

        This page may be helpful: en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D1%8D%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%82


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cef.svu

        этот человек у двери


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jruota

        How would one say "It is the person by the door"?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VoldersDaPenguin

        You actually ended up answering my question, I think.

        So, my question was "why do we sometimes use это and sometimes этот for these similar sentences?" Thing is, это means "this is", while этот, on the other hand, just means "this".

        So to answer your question, I believe the best choice would be это человек у двери, without т. But then I may be shamefully wrong, so if anyone would clear it up...


        [deactivated user]

          How might you say "this man, by the door"?


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NoeliaCald1

          When does человек mean 'person' and when does it specifically mean 'man'? Or would I use мужчина for that?


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/self_aware_text

          Человек means man, in the same way human/mankind means man. We can say mankind when referring to all humans, or groups/individuals.

          Man walked the earth for a millenia before he developed language.

          These early men had a body language based communication.

          In both instances we are referring to the subjects as men/man as in a human/mankind. The genders are mixed, but either one could also be very specific to the gender.

          Man walked the earth using body language, until woman taught mankind how to use their tongues.

          This last example could either be men as a gender spoke only body language, and women spoke verbally. Or. Humans used body language until some women invented speech. With the final mankind obviously covering both genders.


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mike2813

          I can see that the prepositional "у двери" also reads in english as "at the door" - there's an English-language expression that refers to a dire situation, which goes "the wolf is at the door" - i put that through Google Translate, and it came back, "волк у двери" just for general interest.


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kim650054

          I read it as "by a door" instead of "by the door" - I guess I'm just not sure how to tell this with the context


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lochlannn

          This is the person ny the door is also a valid translation


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/niyayesh590971

          l can't andresstand anything someone help me


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pablopublico

          дверь (dverʹ) [dvʲerʲ] "door": From Proto-Slavic *dvьrь, from Proto-Indo-European *dʰwer-, whence English door, Latin foris, Ancient Greek θύρα (thúra), Albanian derë pl. dyer, Central Kurdish دەرگە‎ (derge), derî, Persian در‎ (dar), Hindi द्वार (dvār) / دوار‎ (dvār), Armenian դուռ (duṙ), Irish doras, Welsh dôr and drws, Lithuanian durys, all meaning door.


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/boiitech

          why is "This person is at the door" marked as incorrect? Semms like perfectly viable way to say it


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MANUEL969273

          What would be the difference in Russian between this person by the door and this person is by the door


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LeviUzodik

          Does у have a different meaning from в and на or is it just used with different words? Like, is у only used with words where at would mean near?


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MiledRizk

          дверИ, not двЕри


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/akusayangkamujas

          What the different between eto and etot


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MiledRizk

          The first one belongs to the neuter gender, the second one is masculine


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mornader

          Wouldn't 'at the door' be a better translation?


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Enes877682

          Its getting harder Dx


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ignisssss

          Can I use word man not person? Can I use near not by the door?


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tim960327

          I thought на meant on or at. So why is it not Этот человек на двери?


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zeitschleifer

          It does mean "on" and "at" indeed BUT such words are not always used exactly the same way in every language.

          "На двери" sounds as if the door is on the ground and he is standing on it. Or as if he is hanging on it while it is still vertical. Sounds more like a Spiderman.

          It sounds as if someone is somehow attached to the surface of it.


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/somelauw

          человек (chelovek) sounds like chilaria to me

          Can we please have human voice, because this isn't working?


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alanvoe

          The pronunciation would be very similar if the sentence were spoken by a native Russian speaker.

          человек is pronounced [t͡ɕɪlɐˈvʲek] (IPA syntax). Some points regarding your confusion:

          • the pronunciation of [t͡ɕ] is similar to the "ch" ([t͡ʃ]) in "chariot", but [ɕ] has a higher pitch than [ʃ]. To pronounce it, the tongue tip is low and the middle of the tongue is lifted.

          • The first E is unstressed and thus pronounced [ɪ], similar to the "i" you heard.

          • [ɐ] is indeed close to [a], you heard that right.

          • the last E is pronounced [e], not [a]. If you are a native English speaker, you confusion may arise from the fact that [e] only exists in English in the diphtong [eɪ] (eg "say"), never isolated.

          • [v] is often realized with weak friction in Russian or even as the approximant [ʋ], which may be hard for a foreigner to correctly associate with a V.

          • The final letter "K" is pronounced.


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ismail296331

          I think that there is a problem in this sentence


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alice901709

          how about stands by the door?! duolingo marked it as a mistake... any ideas?!


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/piguy3

          It's usually Russian that uses standing/sitting/hanging verbs where English would just use "is," not vice versa.


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JackAdgery

          "Near" should be accepted in place of "by". Literally the exact same meaning in English in this case


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Evelyn468953

          "There is someone at the door" seemed the most natural English translation to me, but it was marked wrong. Should it be accepted?


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/piguy3

          This sentence is about a "this person," i.e. you can at least point to them, as opposed to a wholly unidentified someone.


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rtyom2

          "That man at the door" should have beeb accepted, I think :/


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Karina-bug

          Difference between это, этот, and этом? I can't identify the pattern.


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gabipinti

          In my grammer book it says: --> for Nominative case: - этот - for masculine nouns - эта - for feminine nouns - это - for neuter nouns - эти - for all plural nouns --> for Prepositional case: - этом - for masculine and neuter singular nouns. For example: в этом парке... = in this park... (as requested by preposition в for designation of the place).

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