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- "This is a cheese knife; this…
"This is a cheese knife; this is a fish knife."
Translation:Это нож для сыра; это нож для рыбы.
74 Comments
717
Yes but here the literal translation should not be preferred because it's less natural.
673
I can think of plenty of situations where one could say "this knife is for fish." There are usages where it could be used.
717
It's not wrong but it doesn't reflect actual English usage. We call it a "cheese knife" not a "knife for cheese", the latter is a description, not the term used for the object.
583
Indeed, but the hints in this chapter are really incomplete and/or misleading. It makes learning the new material very hard because we students have almost no clue about what we are doing.
I wondered the same thing... Except for perhaps an adjective implies a 'cheesy knife" or "fishy knife" instead of a knife that is used for cheese or fish, which для brings out clearly. But thinking "in English" these seem OK to me.
But a google shows this form can be used, it seems: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Сырный_нож
Yes. Here’s my ad hoc translation of the paragraph from the rules (available here or here):
§ 130. A semicolon is used before two independent clauses, joined together in a complex sentence without using the conjunctions, especially when such clauses are extended and have commas (about the comma between independent clauses, joined together in a complex sentence, see §§ 137 и 138), for example:
Ме́жду тем чай был вы́пит; давно́ запряжённые ко́ни продро́гли на снегу́; ме́сяц бледне́л на за́паде и гото́в уж был погрузи́ться в чёрные свои́ ту́чи, вися́щие на да́льних верши́нах, как клочки́ разо́дранного за́навеса. (Лермонтов) / Meanwhile the tea was all drunk; the horses, harnessed long ago, were chilled on the snow; the moon was hanging pale to the west and was ready to dive into its black clouds, suspended on the far peaks like the scraps of a torn curtain. (Lermontov)
Всё вокру́г засты́ло в кре́пком осе́ннем сне; сквозь серова́тую мглу чуть видны́ под горо́ю широ́кие луга́; они разре́заны Во́лгой, переки́нулись че́рез неё и расплы́лись, раста́яли в тума́нах. (М. Горький) / Everything around was frozen in the sound autumn’s sleep; the wide meadows were hardly visible under the hill through a greyish haze; they were cut by Volga, leaped through it and got blurred, melted in the mist. (M. Gorky)
This would sound extremely strange, as if Cheese and Fish are some people's nicknames and they own some knives.
717
Для is "for" in the most common sense of "to the benefit of". за is "for" in the sense of situations like "thanks for", "responsible for" etc, and it also has other meanings.
Это is used to mean "This is a " ot "These are s" for all genders and for plurals.
«Это кошка» «Это хлеб» «Это масло» «Это лошади» all use это because they're all just stating what things are.
You use это/эта/этот/эти when you are saying something about a specific thing, not just stating what it is.
«Эта кошка ест» «Этот хлеб вкусный» «Это масло тает» «Эти лошади любят есть»
Olimo has already written a nice text about it: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/11536858
Well, I'd say this particular sentence suits quite well for the other interpretation, too. You're comparing or juxtaposing two knives saying that one of them is meant for performing one function, the other for another.
(Although, in the way people actually speak, I've never noticed anyone making that difference. Most Russians I've met would use этот and это here quite equally. Might be regional differences or smth.)
As an originally native speaker (who admittedly has forgotten a lot of grammar with lack of recent practice), swapping это for этот in this sentence changes the meaning subtly. In the default version as above with это, you're just saying "this is a cheese knife, this is a fish knife" as a basic explanation. If you swap to этот, however, you'd be emphasising the difference, like if you had to explain a second time because someone misunderstood or did it wrong.
109
Формально - да, но так никогда не говорят. "Сырный пирог" и "рыбный пирог" более уместно, но в основном все же "пирог с сыром" и "пирог с рыбой".
Agree! I didn't get a clue that I had to use "для" + GEN in this sentence, but well, that's the way it is! :D
473
Это нож для сыра, а это для рыбы! This is a correct Russian. Duo should be send to the first class of Russian school. Stop teaching a broken Russian to people who wants to know Russian!
356
Wouldn't it be natural to use а between the parts to show the contrast? А doesn't have an exact translation in English and I think would often be translated by a semicolon.
331
Maybe instead of hints they should be called potential options or? Anyone can think of a word for options both right or wrong?