Swedish Tree 2.0 - but first we want your feedback on the course!
EDIT 5: All development is put on hold until further notice, due to a lack of time, energy and driven bilinguals to develop it.
EDIT 3: 2015-12 The feedback in this thread has now been gathered by yours truly and compiled into a nifty document for future reference in our work with tree 2.0. That doesn't mean, however, that we're no longer open to your great ideas. If you have a good suggestion that isn't previously mentioned here, don't hesitate to write reply to this post!
EDIT 4: 2015-12 Due to the voluntary nature of the contributor work and our goal to settle for nothing but a good, thorough course, Tree 2.0 will take some time. We're probably looking at a few months at least, but we should be done somewhere during 2016.
(Edit 1 & 2 at bottom of the post.)
Goddag på er, kära studerande!
On behalf of the SV-EN team, I bring you some good news. We have recently been given green light to begin developing the Swedish tree into a Tree 2.0, such as has already happened to many courses that have been through alpha stage for some time.
What this means is that we can and will both manage existing skills and create new ones. We might also change some of the content where change is needed or useful. In this work, we would like some help and feedback from you guys about what we should or shouldn't do, so as to get some perspective of what the tree is like from your side of it.
Do you have any suggestions as to what words, skills or grammar issues we should include in the upcoming development of the course? Any other thoughts of yours that you'd like to bring up for discussion? Or anything we definitely shouldn't change? Dont be afraid to voice your opinions here!
In short, we can:
- Change the order of skills, words or lessons.
- Remove problem words, lessons or skills.
- Add brand new words, lessons or skills.
There are a few things that we cannot do in this work, since they're up to Duolingo devs and not us contributors. These include:
- A words tab
- Gender labels on mouseover
- Speech recognition
So, what do you think? Let us know in the comments!
/The SV-EN team, through Zmrzlina.
EDIT 1, regarding bonus skills. We have made two bonus skills (Christmas, and Idioms/Proverbs) that we want to release as soon as possible. While we're open to suggestions about further bonus skills, we will not do culture, mythology or flirting. Please try to keep discussion in this thread to the tree.
EDIT 2: Due to programming problems at Duolingo, the bonus skills will take some time to be released. We don't yet know when to expect them, but we'll tell you as soon as we know.
I finished the tree half a year ago so I may not remember some stuff, but these are the suggestions that came up to mind. Sorry if it’s already been covered in this thread.
A skill about supermarkets: While living in Stockholm, it took me a few months to figure out some phrases they used (“var det bra så?”, or stuff related to waiting in line and such). Having the different sections and more products in a supermarket would be nice (charkuterier, mejerier, different kinds of kött, etc).
Adding more usual phrases (alltså, tjena, hur är läget, det är lugnt, sådär, schysst, ingen fara, i alla fall). I feel like these are used a lot not to be covered here.
I know it’s been discussed in some threads, there should be more phrases with kvar. I learned how to use it thanks to songs and texts and I think it’s quite important.
Telling the time: All the stuff with “över” and “i” is a pain in the ass. It’d be good having it explained here.
Since I saw MANY in forests I couldn’t believe I didn’t know how to say deer. More animals and birds could be featured in the tree.
A skill especially dedicated to ju, väl and nog: Yeah, I still have no idea how to use those and I don’t think I’ll ever get any closer!
More kitchen/cooking: Such as kitchen utensils and cooking verbs. Maybe it's a bit too specific but it’d be interesting.
I really appreciate all the work you guys do for this course! Besides practicing speaking with Swedes, it’s been my main means of learning and it’s been a great one, so thanks a lot for everything!!
Yeah, good point on those common little words like ju and väl and nog. I see them all the time and still don't really get how they're used.
My German tree was changed some weeks ago, and I find that one of the best changes made was shortening many of the skills. Shorter lessons, but more of them gives a more diverse tree, which I find particularly useful for both retention, and enthusiasm. I feel that the Swedish course could also benefit from this change.
Otherwise, I feel that Aulawabbel has made some fine suggestions. Perhaps many of the persistent questions, that occupy much of the comments, could be explained in the Tips & Notes (i.e. the V2 rule).
Definitely: the tree restructuring makes for quicker acquisition of Grammar points as verb tenses were moved further down the tree and vocabulary lessons (which can be arduous and boring) were far more bearable.
Your notes are the best and funniest. Please keep doing that.
Also, even though we start learning how to pronounce the words while learning them with each new skill, can you add some notes (maybe in basics) on pronunciation rules? Unless there already are, though I haven't seen any reference to pronunciation in the course, which I think is one of the hardest parts of the language.
Agreed! Only now when I'm at the 11th level have I figured that "s" is pronounced as "sch" when it's after "r".
It's called a retroflexive r and they explain it a bit in the comments, but I definitely think they should take some time at the beginning of the course to explain phonology and phonetics a bit
I have found FSI's Swedish pronunciation guide to be very helpful. While we are waiting for Duolingo to integrate the pronunciation guide, you can take a look at it: https://fsi-languages.yojik.eu/languages/swedish.html
That would make an excellent bonus skill, I think?
Maybe it could be "Bonus: Pop. Culture", or something, instead of just focusing on literature? Swedish pop. culture of course includes Astrid Lindgren's works as well as The Moomins and so on and so forth.
Actually, it seems that she was Finlandssvensk which is not quite the same thing.
Indeed, she was Finlandssvensk - a Swedish speaking Finn. She wrote her books in Swedish, because that was her mother tongue, but she was a Finnish person, hence part of the Finnish culture.
Even if it's very special, I like this idea a lot! It would be a nice opportunity to kneel for one of the greatest Swedish authors of all time and to create a section about literature.
Hey there. Having a blast learning through the tree but I would like to ask for some skills in Business Swedish for people who are interested in working overseas. Thanks!
I love that so many sentences are actually (pop) cultural references. If you look at the discussion for that sentence there will be links to YouTube if it is a song, or to Wikipedia or elsewhere for further explanations about the reference. The Swedish course has more of this than any other I remember. It's awesome -- keep it up as you expand the course!
On this note, I feel like the references begin to lessen later on in the course. Earlier on we were being exposed to a lot of (a little) Swedish culture through the references (You guys would make a sentence with a reference and someone would post about it in the comments). I feel like that stops about halfway through the course. I feel like that's a great, fun, engaging way to learn about the culture and it should really be utilized to it's full potential!
I was thinking of spending some of my spare time on a spreadsheet that contains words which are not currently in the Duolingo course, that I have come across in my Lättläst books, children's books, SFI C/D (and other study) books, as well as on 8sidor and Klartext etc.
I tend to underline new words in my books as I read, so then it wouldn't take too long to go through and type them all up. I can then check against the Duolingo wordlist to make sure that there are no duplicates.
I'd like to have all of my non-Duolingo vocabulary in one place. As of now, it is spread around various documents, books, papers, flashcards etc. so I started working on this today. I imagine that such a list could prove useful to the course contributors and so I figured that I'd at least offer to share?
I don't have much so far but...
I've just added another ~300 words from Brott och Straff (Crime & Punishment) (Lättläst level 3) to the spreadsheet. That's two LL books done.
I'm now going to focus on SFI books as I don't yet have any more LL books.
I've finished adding the new words (around 300) from the +46: SFI 3, Kurs C book.
I've almost finished adding all of the words from one of my (smaller) Lättläst books and I have started on the next one.
I have also greatly improved the spreadsheet. First of all, the CEFR (Common European Framework of Reference for Languages) level and the word frequency (words per million) from the KELLY project (http://spraakbanken.gu.se/eng/kelly) is now added automatically for each and every word. The spreadsheet also automatically checks to see if it can find the word on the existing Duolingo tree. I have thus removed any words that are already on the tree.
I will probably keep working on this, on and off.
I found that the first adjective and adverb skills were a little long. I found adverbs to be tedious and and it took a while to finish. If you were to split these skills, that would be a great improvement! If you could also add notes to grammar skills such as Passive participles, Conditional verbs and Active participles, that would be great. Make sure you keep the Congratulations skill, and thanks for developing the tree! I love it!
This is great news, since I'm just about to finish the tree!
I can't think off many bigger problems offhand (especially ones that have not already been mentioned) but I just read a long comment train about the problems with the TTS and the word "el" for electricity. Someone suggested you change the work to "elektricitet" and at the time you were not able to add/remove/change words, but maybe you can do that now? And maybe you can introduce the shortening in words like "elgitarr".
Edit: I just got to the passive form skill and maybe instead of introducing new words in there it'd be better to work on making / parsing the passive form of words we already know? I've been having a reeeeally hard time with this skill despite being familiar with the passive because trying to juggle passive form with different tenses of verbs I don't know is really difficult for some reason. I understand that might just be my problem, though.
Recently finished that module and came here to write just that! It was very frustrating to deal with.
According to a Swedish friend of mine E.L. is a abbreviation for "eller liknande" (or similar) and el is indeed commonly used for "elektricitet" and is pronounced "eel". The speech synthesis of Duolingo messes this one up.
This helped me in that terrible and difficult Passive form skill: http://www.thelocal.se/blogs/theswedishteacher/2010/07/25/s-endings-on-verbs/
The Swedish Teacher on thecocal.se is a very helpful source of information.
Mythology could never be added as a skill in the main tree, However, it could work as a bonus skill, but we have very different views on this in the team. I have to disagree with Zmrzlina here, because think it is quite relevant and I know that many people would like to see such a skill. I agree that the words wouldn't be very valuable, but it would rather be a bonus skill learning a little about the mythology and the names of the gods and so on, and it would be in Swedish which still means practice...
Forms of Articles and Adjectives !
Ok, I'm late in the game, but hopefully this can be taken into account:
There are a lot of intricacies in the interaction between articles, adjectives, and nouns that are not really taught.
Some of it is explained in the tips and notes. The more intricate conditions are only contained in specific comments. I think it would be great to have a dedicated skill where all the combinations are explicitly taught and checked.
Right now I still get articles/adjective forms wrong even in the later skills much too often.
These are the basics which are already both explained and tested
indefinite versus definite
singular versus plural
Intermediate stuff that is explained in tips and notes, but should have more/dedicated exercises:
masculine form -e
The article "de" appears too rarely in exercises
possessive => always like plural -a
additional articles if adjective is present
Advanced topics currently only present in comments (as far as I can see):
Adjectives that can't have "den/det" too when describing a definite noun. See Zmrzlina's comment in https://www.duolingo.com/comment/9330061
Attributive versus predicative position (I was wondering about this right from the start (and found no explanation) because in my native German these are very different.) https://api.duolingo.com/comment/7165596
Indefinite nouns with a general, abstract or collective meaning take the neuter form of the adjective https://www.duolingo.com/comment/5948879
Great points. Just the other day I went through this thread to harvest the feedback we got here and wrote it down for future reference in our work, but your points are simply too good to not be included. Tack så mycket!
Thanks for the kind answers and great that you are considering this!
I think what confused me most is the lack of practice (no dedicated "grammar exercises") plus the difference between adjectives in attributive and predicate positions (which is never explained anywhere, except in comments).
My understanding of the latter: Both "-a"-rules for definite nouns and possessives do not apply to adjectives in predicative position, so this is correct:
Huset är mysigt.
Mitt hus är mysigt.
Is that right? Any other differences regarding adjective position?
I imagine a skill "Adjectives - Grammar" with only a very limited number of adjectives and nouns (to focus on grammar rather than vocabulary):
one basic lessons using only attributive adjective position: Different gender, singular versus plural
one lesson with both attributive and predicative adjective position: Different gender, singular versus plural, with and without possessives
one dedicated lessons for common, irregular adjectives (mixed with regular adjectives in similar sentences)
one lesson for those special adjectives that "never take the extra article" (mixed with adjectives that do)
one lesson for those "Indefinite nouns with a general, abstract or collective meaning" that always take the neuter form of the adjective (mixed with other nouns)
maybe another lesson for masculine form (mixed non masculine nouns) (but I am not sure about this after reading the comments)
I understand that Duolingo and this course try to focus on absorbing the language by practice, but I would take much too long to figure out these rules if there isn't some form of dedicated exercise.
Of course this skill would needd an expanded "Tips Notes" section.
BTW: Can somebody take a look at this and tell me if it is correct?
(Larger version: http://i.imgur.com/sFmEfVl.png )
Have to agree, some very good points here. German is also my native language and I've been wondering about some of the same things, too. One thing, though: As far as I know the masculine form is pretty old-fashioned and not used a lot anymore, so I don't know how important this really is. Maybe someone else can say something about that?
Masculine is used a lot in some parts of Sweden, but not at all in others. We debated whether to include it at all, but at the time we thought it was good to include it so that people would at least know that it exists. But it's only taught for very few words.
At least it's very common in the southern and western parts, so Gothenburg and Scania for sure, I'm no expert on dialectal differences so someone else might help out. Maybe lundgren8 knows?
Hej, NotLundgren8 here :). I have lived in southern and western parts of Sweden and always use the male versions. And where I come from it is not considered colloquial but just proper Swedish.
You can even hear people from other parts of Sweden trying to use these masculine versions generally, which is some kind of hypercorrection I suppose :).
It isn't rare to see mistakes on this. For instance it's very common in those posts from Missing People – the people who write them may be good at finding people, but they're usually not good at writing. They seem to be forever searching for "23-årige Anna" and similar. I read some language expert who theorized that people who use it that way view it as some sort of honorific, erroneously of course. I think it might just be that they don't pay a lot of attention to spelling or grammar in the first place, and since endings often sound blurry, the sound of it isn't much help.
Regarding Missing People Sweden, aren't those guys from Gothenburg? Would support the regional theory.
Not really, I mean, in theory, people from Gothenburg should be among those who would know when to use the masculine form or not. Although my theory about people just generally sucking at writing could of course override that too. :P
Yeah, I suppose. I was thinking more along the lines of "if more people are using it at all, more people are bound to get it wrong as well."
That's the kind of mistakes I see too (23-årige Anna, Bäste Helen Carlsson etc).
I just want to clarify that people from e.g. Göteborg are good at using the male endings when it comes to male persons (e.g. "den gamle mannen" and "den blonde killen") . For utrum nouns that used to be masculine, only old people still use the -e endings, e.g. "den gröne" (about a tram) or "den svarte" (about a horse) and it sounds very Gothenburgish :).
I think you're right devalanteriel, people in Stockholm may not be aware of this form at all, so even if they're bad at writing they wouldn't mix it in.
HelenCarlsson I've heard that a lot and I've never noticed anyone from Gothenburg saying it wrong, I think I would have noticed if anyone had said something like den gamle tanten – but when it comes to writing, it's probably a different story.
Very unimportant. The vast majority of people ignore it completely, or use it semi-arbitrarily at most. Using -a for male adjectives isn't even considered incorrect.
To be clear, that's not to detract from eekboom's other arguments - I think it's a splendid post.
Good to know! I haven't encountered the male version so far in my "Swedish experience" expect maybe here and there in the lyrics of old visor.
I have recently discovered Duolingo and love it. As an English teacher, I know how important it is to learn a language systematically, start from the easier points and slowly build up vocabulary.
- I agree with others that it would be a good idea to split some units (e.g. adjectives and verbs) into smaller ones, but in a way that one easier unit will be left at the original place, and another unit would come much later in the tree (one unit with easier words in the first month or two of learning, and others with more difficult words in the next few months. Not one after another!).
- I think simple numbers should be taught way before.
- You might add one unit Introduction at the beginning (to teach us how to say something about ourselves like name, surname, address, mobile phone No, simple occupation or hobbie).
- Leave out some difficult words from the beginning and leave them for later (sköldpaddan or skådespelerskorna killed me and my friends at the beginning). :)
- Bonus skills - it would be great to offer at least 10 additional skills, not just one or two. It would be a much better motivation to be able to have more useful things to spend my lingots on, not just on some Duo clothes (sorry birdie!). More items in the shop so I must struggle to buy something :)
Anyway, these are my suggestions that you might consider, in any case keep up the good work!
Jag har inte gjort några svensklektioner på länge och jag har inte läst alla tips och förklaringar, så därför har jag inte jättebra koll på exakt vad som ingår och vad som redan är grundligt förklarat.
Jag antar att ni tar hänsyn till vilka frågor som ställs och vad användarna verkar tycka är svårast när ni bestämmer hur 2.0 ska se ut?
Tänk, tänk, tänk...
Possessiva pronomen verkar många tycka är svårt, speciellt när det handlar om alla svenska översättningar av "your".
Pronomen är nog generellt svårt. Jag tänker t.ex. på alla uttryck med "any xxx" som motsvarar "xxx som helst" på svenska.
Ordföljd är ju lite komplicerat på svenska. Jag är inte säker på att det är så enkelt att lära ut dock :).
Kanske kunde ni ha ett särskilt avsnitt om partikelverb. Det finns ju en hel del.
Jag minns inte riktigt hur mycket som finns med när det gäller kroppsdelar och sjukdomar, men det är ett område som jag själv tycker är intressant/användbart.
Jag kommer ihåg en kurs, kanske var det norska, som hade lite fler ord i hygienavsnittet, inte bara tandkräm och hårborste utan t.ex. fuktighetskräm, ansiktsvatten och balsam. Det var bra!
Just det, tandtråden :)!
PS. I agree with the cultural references. It made the course so fun and exciting!
Tack för ditt medhåll.
Grattis till level 18! Här kommer ett par tips. Man inleder sällan en mening med ordet "också". Och ett ord borde vara inkluderaT. Du kan också skriva det i passiv form: "borde inkluderas."
"Ordet vore borde också vara inkluderat/borde också inkluderas."
Det finns faktiskt en lektion med ordet "vore" i "Verbs: Conditional". Men det finns tyvärr inte så många meningar med "vore" eller en förklaring om hur man använder "vore".
Jaså, jag har inte sett dem alls alltså tror jag att fler meningar med ordet "vore" behövs.
When it comes to everyday phrases, is there a way you can make almost a conversational lesson? Like the computer says "Hej! Hur mår du?" and you can respond with three possible answers of "Bra," "Bra, tack." or "Bra. Hur mår du?" So it's not just repeating what is said or what is written, it's giving a response to what someone just said. Does that make sense? Or if someone says "Tack så mycket," you respond, "Varsågod."
Maybe a lesson about traffic which could incorporate words such as - car, subway (already in the course), traffic light, crossing, truck, turn signals/indicators, steering wheel, brakes, stop sign, trunk, seatbelt, driver's license, railway station, etc.
Personally, I have a lot of difficulties with the difference between sitta, ligga, sätta ,ställa, lägga and when to use which because there is a fair bit of crossover.
Thus it would maybe be a good idea to have a lesson which focuses on those words?
Hey, awesome to hear! I have to say that I've been disappointed going through the early lessons how many phrases are there instead of complete sentences. Unfortunately Duolingo's template is to blame for this, but if care is taken with the words taught in the first skill, you can really generate a lot of sentences!
I'd highly recommend looking at our Esperanto 2.0 tree to see how we're doing it, and feel free to copy our example. In the very first lesson, we teach 6 words and 2 proper names, so we can start making complete sentences from the very beginning. I'd love to see this integrated into Swedish as well even though I likely won't benefit from it, since I'll hopefully not be on beginner lessons much longer. ;) If you have any questions, feel free to jump into the eo-en chatroom in the Incubator and tag @Junesun as she's the one working most on our 2.0 tree.
-Good luck from Duolingo's Esperanto team :)
I believe there should be a lesson dedicated only to negatives the like of ingen, inget, inte, aldrig and the kind. It would be very useful in further lessons. And maybe one for imprecise quantities like nagot :)
Some more thoughts on this:
- Living in Sweden: personnummer, skatteverket, ID-kort, lägenhet, hyresrätt, bostad, tillåtelse, röda dagar, betyg
- "systembolaget" is probably important for some people
- "vårdcentral" would go well with the bit about health (and maybe the names of some specialists)
- I don't remember seeing "fika". (EDIT: as noted by KiwiDressager, it is handled extensively)
- Maybe some exercises about the abbreviations (such as t.ex., n:a, l:a)
Agreed re personnummer, ID-kort, health specialists etc... I learnt a tonne of words while trying to find a place to rent as well! On that note, perhaps common things on road signs might be useful too? Navigating bureaucracy here has been entertaining to say the least, so any help we can get for those kinda things might be really good!
Fika is very much included in the course already though! There are endless discussions on the details of how it best translates to English and whether morning and afternoon tea is quite the same thing or not etc!
For multiple choice questions, do course contributors supply both lists of correct and incorrect answers? Or do you not have control over generation of the pool of incorrect answers? I ask because some of the wrong answers have so many problems that these questions are not particularly challenging. My first suggestion is to revise the wrong answers to make them more similar to correct answers. A second suggestion is to use the multiple choice question format to make a skill focusing on word order where all answers contain sentences made from an identical set of words, with varying word order for each answer.
We have no control over the multiple choice questions, they're automatically generated. So we can't do anything about that.
Yes, the wrong ones are generated randomly. We have no way of influencing them unfortunately.
Very good suggestions! I also always felt like the multiple choice tests are too easy with all those sentences that make no sense at all. Most of the time I'm able to get the right one without even having to read it completely, because it's the only one that doesn't have an error in the first few words.
And I also like the idea of using multiple choice to practice word order!
I absolutely agree. The multiple choice answers are too easy! Add some small mistakes, like case and spelling, to make them more challenging. Hopefully, you can see the most common mistakes that users make and draw on them for your wrong answers.
Unfortunately, like people have written above, this is something the course content creators are not able to affect.
I wrote about the V2 rule in my other post and how it only seems to pop up in discussions. While practicing today I stumbled over this discussion, which is a good example for my point: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/5940033 ("Even the child is writing letters") Here, Arnauti explains that "Till och med barnet skriver brev" does not violate the V2 rule, since "Till och med barnet counts as one unit of the sentence". I just stumbled over this randomly and wouldn't have learnt that otherwise. And I think this is not very intuitive. Why is "till och med barnet" only "one unit of the sentence"? Are there anymore of these rules? Etc. ... I think the course should explain more stuff like that.
Furthermore, I also think it is a good example that more explanations of word order would be good. The position of the adverb changes the meaning completely, as Arnauti explains, but this might not be clear to everyone. And even if it is very similar to how it works in English, as a learner you wouldn't even be sure if constructions like that are "allowed" in Swedish (usually applying the rules of English to a foreign language does not work out so well ;) ), until you've seen an example like this. Especially since the Tips & Notes clearly say that the adverb comes after the verb, which also led to confusion in this discussion.
These are some very good resources, especially the second link. Thank you! Haven't stumbled over the myself... so maybe I should change my request from "add more explanations" to "make it more obvious where the explanations can be found"? ;)
We definitely should, I'm just not quite sure how. I'll try pointing to it more often in discussions to begin with.
Talking about it in discussions is good, yes, and the discussions are a very important part of Duolingo for me (especially since people like you, Arnauti, are extremly helpful and fast in answering questions, which is a huge help! Thanks a lot for that!), but it would still be a bit hidden from the users, since not everybody looks into the discussions. I usually don't, either, if I do not have a question.
Why not add links to these discussions in the respective Tips Notes sections of the lessons? Of course, finding the appropriate lessons to add the link isn't that easy, either... I think a seperate "sentence structure" lesson block at the beginning for forming simple sentences, questions etc. might be a good way to introduce the V2 rule and everything else ("where to put the adverb?" etc.) can be talked about when it gets introduced. Sometimes there are tips for this, but even if their are there, they are usually not that in depth. For example, the current "Placement of adverbs" tip in Adverbs 1 only talks about one of the cases mentionend in your second link. Of course, talking about all possibilities in one lesson might be too much. But there are multiple lessons for Adverbs, so you could split the different cases/possibilites up over the different lessons. Or, since it looks like you are planning to split up longer lessons anyway, why not use that opportunity to think about how to split them up in a logical way to introduce grammar that gets progressivly more advanced?
One comment to that, though: Even if you guys put those things in to the Tips & Notes, I think it would still be a good idea to keep the discussions. There's no possibility to ask a question in the Tips & Notes section and if you want to look something up, one general discussion with all info in one place makes that a lot easier than having to skip through multiple lessons until you find what you're looking forward.
More verbs, more words to express how you feel such as sådär, some more sentences that show the meaning of words with multiple meanings(ökar has quite a lot). Something in that direction.
I have a suggestion. lessons like adverbs and present perfect, future preterite, etc, only have a few or even one lesson. yet they are very important skills to know, so adding more of these and breaking them up so the practice feature makes you repeat them would be very useful. thanks!
I'd like to see a more extensive list of useful nouns in the noun pool. I'm not sure how many times I'll need to use "turtle" in Sweden, but judging by the number of times it comes up in my practice rounds I'm assuming that turtles just roam freely and frequently through the streets of Stockholm. :-)
How about a skill on telephone vocabulary? Like answering the phone, putting someone on hold, transferring. "I'm can I speak with..."
Aside from that, more everything is good. I'm taking classes as well as this and I'm crushing the classes thanks to the extra practice here.
The tree, as it stands now has been great. After having completed it, and kept it golden daily for a year, I can basically follow along with Swedish tv (as long as the subtext is on, and pausing frequently to think) and read light-Swedish news.
When doing that though, there are a lot of new words and synonyms that come up in both media that just aren't in the course.
So at this point, more lessons that simply build vocabulary would be fantastic. And maybe in some longer, more complex sentence structures?
It would be really great if the timed practice would pause automatically if you opened the "discuss" thread.
Well the timed practice is testing your ability to translate on the fly which is something you will need to be able to do if you want to speak the language fluently. Pausing the timer would quite possibly defeat the purpose of it. A better implementation of this would be to allow viewing discussions when you go to review the questions after.
Also in areas where I have a lot of questions or don't consider myself proficient, I don't typically do timed practice as the memory retention is not very good. When first learning something new you want to take it slow and build core memories; then and only then you should train yourself to pull up those memories quickly.
That's easy to solve, though - pause when opening the comments only after the user has answered the question.
The "discuss sentence" button doesn't show up until you've answered the question anyway.
We all agree on that one, I think. It's not something the course content creators can affect, however. You'd have to bring it up with Duolingo's paid technical staff.
The more the better, in my firm opinion. I would love more skills. Also, I don't know if it's just me, but I think it would be easier to split the bigger skills, like adjectives, into more parts than one and two, like the basics, and with the other part appearing after a few different skills. To me, it would mean a lot, because I like diversity in learning. I hope there are like-minded people. :-)
I agree with this. From the pedagogical point of view those several humongous skills are a motivation killer. My gut feeling is that 3-5 is an ideal size for a skill. Swedish has plenty of skills that are 7-9 and those feel very heavy to do and especially when strengthening the skill. Smaller portions are key to more successful learning. I would split all of those large skills.
I'm only halfway up my tree, so I don't know what all is still coming. I like that you have included words that doesn't exist in English (such as "orka"). One thing that we here in Finland often joke about is that Swedish doesn't have any good dirty words. Everyone might not agree with this, but I would like to have a skill with those funny Swedish swear words like "sjuttonde" ;) Also I haven't seen the pronoun "hen" yet. I recall reading from somewhere (when the course was released in beta) that you decided to leave it out since it's not yet that widely used. I see the word "hen" as something very Swedish (like the skills that combine "hon" quite often with traditional male occupations) and that's why I think it would be nice to have it. Last year I was studying in a university in Stockholm and the teachers used "hen" (even when speaking English, which was a bit funny...) quite often.
I agree that "hen" is very Swedish, but that is because it is a political correctness thing. You generally use it to make a statement about your own side, at least here in Halland. It might be more commonly used in Stockholm, though. I don't see its place in a beginner's language course.
It can also be useful for people who identify as non binary. Within the queer community in the UK and US we use 'they' as a gender neutral singular pronoun (anyone who says it's grammatically incorrect, language changes to suit the speakers' needs). Non binary people learn languages too, and the fact that this pronoun now exists in Swedish is awesome and should definitely be included.
I think that the argument of being able to pick "hen" up "from the wild" is a wee bit silly. Because you could exclude any word by saying so. I think it's good that it's accepted as an answer. I think it would be nice that it was introduced in some way. For example the singular "they" is used also many official texts, when you don't want to write "she/he" every time.
Why I see the including "hen" important is not so much about learning all novelty words from a language or about non-binary people (of course, you are a good reason too). I think that when learning a language, you learn about that culture and I think "hen" tells a lot about Swedish culture and the things that are important to them.
And if you go through all the levels in Duo, it is far more than beginner level language learning. I think that a pronoun is more important word than a "turtle" (haven't really seen those in the Swedish forests). But then again, giving words some kind of importance grading is quite arbitrary.
Many good points from several of you. One more reason we didn't include it in the first version of the course is that it might not really need to be taught – having seen it once, you already know it. But we'll certainly consider adding it in version 2.0, we'll see what the group says but it could very well happen. It's already been added as an accepted answer where it works.
There's no doubt it's a very useful word, and it's been gaining acceptance rather rapidly, so it's probably just a matter of time before it is widely spread. I'm very happy about that. Whether it should be taught in a beginner's language course is another matter, however. I'm leaning towards no, since it's still a heavily contested word, and one which quite a lot of people will not use or are opposed to. It also simply isn't common enough. Eventually, it will either be large enough to warrant inclusion, or die out. I'm hoping for the former - but it's not quite there yet. (Full disclosure: I am non-binary myself.)
If the queer community in UK/US chooses to use a singular 'they', they don't change the language: They change their use of the language. Which is exactly the political statement they want to make - as I stated above. That also includes a willingness to explain it if needed.
So, accepting it in answers is great, but I don't see a point in teaching it here; the real world is where those things are taught anyway.
I think it can be useful in some very specific situations e.g. when talking about a child of which the gender is unknown.
@johan560630: I mean you no offence, but I have read your post several times now and I still don't understand what your point is. I'm sure sustained is well aware of the various pronouns in Swedish. I would also point out that your examples of ni are incorrect, it is not a "more formal and older way" of speaking in the manner you suggest.
@johan560630: Thanks for replying.
I use hen all the time when I do not know the gender of somebody. Most commonly that is while I'm driving and I want to comment on other drivers being asshats, but I don't know whether they are male or female. There are lots of such scenarios, for children as well, where it's nice to be able to use a simple non-gender-specific pronoun. :)
Regarding ni, it was only ever used that way regionally. That it used to be a polite pronoun is a myth - in fact, you'd commonly use ni to talk down to someone. So if you call e.g. an old, rich woman in central Stockholm ni, she's undoubtedly get very offended.
@johan560630, here's a link to a good article about when people started using ni. Many Swedes have the wrong idea of the history of this word.
By gender unknown, I meant e.g. a baby in a pram (presumably with fairly gender-neutral clothes), or as someone else mentioned to a person in a vehicle, when you only know someone by name but are not sure of their gender, when you want to talk about someone without revealing the gender. :P
Hehe, yes, .
But the "driver" in front of you will always be -"Den där IDIOTEN!!" anyway? Hehe. ;-)
I also DO see the point of introducing hen/hän in the spoken language, I myself also use hän(short ä) , when talking, But not often in writing, as it is so disturbing for the flow.
I hate the word "hen" ("he/she") (pronounced heen as in Dutch) but I grew up before the word existed. I think it should be removed from an introductory course except so as to point out its meaning, should one encounter it. Here is a text on how to use it: https://www.lararforbundet.se/artiklar/sa-anvander-du-ordet-hen
Yes, hen is a very beautiful word! In fact, it inspired me to use the word lij in stead of hij/zij in Dutch. Nothing official, just using it sometimes informal at work. Hope someone will pick it up!
I completely agree, nothing more draining than 7 past. tense courses in a row with similar new words.
But also not as short as just one lesson. So please add some lessons in the very short but important grammar skills.
I entirely agree! Even if I did not finish the tree yet, I would appreciate the prospect of getting a huge amount of new skills to explore. I think - also considering the majority of the comments so far - a splitting up of the major skills seems to be very smart :)
Good points. We've actually discussed splitting up some of the major skills into two. It's a bit too much to have nine lessons in Adjectives 1. And I'm sure we'll end up with more skills than what is the case today. I've been envious of the Norwegian course including words like lightsaber. ;)
Yup, a friend told me this was a better way of saying it. Thanks for sharing :)
Yes please, that would help a lot! The Adjectives and especially the Verbs skills are too big in the beginning.
I agree as well. I remember especially the first adjectives was a mammoth task.
First of all: Thanks a million for all the work you put into the existing tree. Yes, bonus skills would be great.
I have not yet finished the tree, so my perspective might be skewed.
My first issue is somewhat "soft": I think it would the tree should focus more on words and idioms depending how useful they are in everyday life. I don't know when I last needed the word for "turtle" even in my native German language. How about "wasp", "guinea pig", or "rat" for example? Some specific birds?
Definitely do bring in more "culture", but as part of other lessons: Swedish food, customs, famous places, authors, sayings, ...
Oh, and if you can influence it: Make the exercises a little more difficult. It feels like somebody is making fun of me when I am asked "How do you say 'hungry': [ ] Stockholm [ ] elefanten [ ] hungrig"
Hey, I'm also a German native speaker. We have to pay attention that learning Swedish is much easier for us due to the close relation of both languages (and the grammatical reduction of Swedish in comparison to German). I guess, even if Swedish is considered as not being the hardest language to learn, some may have difficulties, if you think about some specialties like the double definition with adjectives etc.
But I would recommend more difficult sentences (at all stages) as well. I'm not hundred percent sure, if the algorithm of Duolingo works it out that not everybody gets the difficult ones. Most of all some sentences that require a good understanding of the V2 (till exempel: "Eftersom jag var sjuk, gick ja inte på skolan") would be a nice upgrading :)
You already seem to have grasped it :)
Eftersom jag var sjuk, gick jag inte till skolan.
if I remember correctly from German class I had for 12 years, would the verbs meet at the comma in this sentence, as in "Weil ich krank war, ging ich zur Schule nicht."?
Yes, that's right.
Weil ich krank war, ging ich nicht zur Schule.
Different verbs are signs for different sentences that should be divided by commas. At least this is one of the basic rules, which helps a lot and is correctly in the most cases. German is quite strict with rules for commas and unfortunately also very disorganized. The most Germans cannot not set commas right. Swedish is more free here. The comma in Eftersom jag var sjuk, gick jag inte till skolan is optional.
I'm kinda bummed you chose christmas over flirting, the latter seems more useful.
The Swedish program seems to run smoothly my only real concern has been with picture choices. Sometimes a word is introduced and the picture accompanying the correct word is not obvious because it may have more than one object in it. And when the word for animal was introduced the pictures were of 3 animals.
Other than that I would agree with the idea of breaking up large skills. I would have expected adjectives to begin showing up early on. Like hot and cold with food. Large and furry with animals. Just for example.
Thank you for the fun lessons. Especially the crazy sentences.
Sometimes when I'm translating I accidentally write the past tense instead of the correct tense. I know I could just re-practice all skills but I would like to have an option to practice on verbs only, and mix present, future and past tense.
Idk if that's something you can do or if that's up to the devs if it's a good idea.
I really want to thank all of you for the hard work. It continues to be a pleasure to sign in and practice with the materials your work and effort have provided. I haven't yet reached the end of the current tree, so if some of my suggestions are already covered, please forgive me. If I may, the following are my suggestions:
Skill or bonus skill suggestions -Cooking verbs, vocabulary, etc. Food is such an important part of every language, and it always seems to be one of the hardest parts too. -sayings/idioms -onomatopoeia -words for groups of objects (e.g. school of fish, gaggle of geese, murder of crows, etc.) -a "false friends" section, where words are spelled or sound similar in both languages, but are different -country and city names section -other language trees seem to make use of a "spiritual" or "fantasy" or the like - folklore, perhaps? As mythology seems to be soundly off the table, perhaps this can help feed some curiosity -traditions -slang?
As other members have stated, paring down some of the sections into more easily digestible chunks could prove less frustrating, and easier to review with, in the future.
Dedicated sections for particle verbs
There have been a lot of good suggestions made so far, and I can only look forward to what you all are able to put together. Tack så mycket!
Not sure if it can be part of this, but in my first month of using DuoLingo, the Swedish course really overemphasizes words I'm not getting wrong and then throws in some words only rarely which I get wrong every time. Jordgubbe (and forms of it) for instance. Seems like every "strengthen your skills" exercise has 5 instances of strawberry, which I get right every time. But it rarely uses män (and other forms of that), which when they come up I get wrong every time.
Not sure if that's a dev issue or if jordgubbe is over-represented in the tree.
Having quizzes that test more than 1 skill when you click "strengthen skills" would be nice. It happened higher up the tree but not much past the second checkpoint
I think it would be nice to even out the vocabulary. There is a huge emphasis on äter and älskar, turtles and moose. In contrast, many words are presented never to be mentioned again until they pop up suddenly on a review. I agree that eating and loving (and maybe even moose) are more common than having a sister who is a firefighter, but the balance could be a bit better.
In general, something missing from all duolingo trees it would seem, are lessons that contrast different skills. For example, there might be a lesson all in past tense and another all in present. Then there should be a lesson mixing these two to make sure the learner distinguishes them (and not just for verb tenses, but any other skills you might want to contrast). It would make duolingo more applicable to real usage.
When will the tree 2.0 be launched? Guess I'll wait for it... As I read the comments, feel like the new one will be way too better lol
Only halfway through the tree so I'm not sure if wat I'm looking for is further down. What I would like to see is some day to day sentences. Like "Darn, I hit my toe against the chair", "Watch out crossing the street", "Careful with that knife, Eugene". Well maybe not the latter. Anyway I know how to say that the horses are eating my scarf now but I still struggle with some of the daily small talk when I try to speak Swedish.
Goddag to all. As for my experience with the course, I think we lack some specific skills on all the tiny words that help us build sentences. I have felt that even though I may know some complicated grammar or vocabulary, I would still find it difficult to make simpler sentences. If the ones used in exercises were longer, that would help as well. I'm also wondering whether the Immersion section will ever be created for languages other than French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese and German?
P.S. The tips and content of the course have been more than enjoyable. Regards!
I have another suggestion for you. Would you be able to add more "adverb phrases" (I am not sure what they are actually called). There are some of them in the course already but there are a great deal more that are missing. Perhaps there could even be a lesson dedicated to them.
Here is a spreadsheet that contains a list of "adverb phrases". Feel free to use it as a source. I will keep adding to it over the coming days/weeks.
Also, lately I've been working on some books that I bought from LättLäst and I've come across a fair amount of expressions, idioms and such that seem quite versatile. As such, I think that they would make great additions to the course. I can try to make a list or a spreadsheet of those as well, I suppose?
One last thing. If you need any help figuring out how to organise the new tree then I'd be happy to help with that as well. I like organising things. :D I don't claim to be good at English however I am a native speaker, I'm dedicated to learning Swedish and I have a lot of free time. I don't want to be a Moderator or anything like that, I just wanted to offer to help with the planning stage.
Maybe some more compound adverbs would be a good idea as well. E.g. I don't think that you currently have "nuförtiden" which in my opinion is an example of a word that everyone should know. It is relatively common to compare how things were to how they are now.
I think that there should be more focus on the inability to succinctly express the present perfect continuous in Swedish. There is of course the "håller på med (att)" construct which as far as I know is the best way to express it. I am aware that you do already teach this construct but personally I have a lot of difficulties with this difference between the languages and I am sure that I am far from alone.
This may be my personal learning style but I want to suggest it anyway...
I found that the rate of new vocabulary was higher than I'd like compared to being introduced to grammatical concepts.
I find it easier to learn a language by drilling a variety of patterns until they feel natural and then ramp up the vocabulary once I have the ability to use them in more meaningful sentences.
What this would mean is that perhaps the topics that have more than 4 or 5 lessons in could be split up and spread around a bit more, so the grammatical patterns are learned a bit earlier on.
I know people will disagree but, for example, I like to practice present tense with verbs for a bit, but then not wait too long until I learn past and future and perfect etc. so that as I'm learning new verbs, I am practicing them in a couple of tenses. e.g. I like to know to say "Jag äter osten" and "Jag åt osten" without a long gap with lots of new vocab in between.
I might be alone in that way of thinking though.
You are not alone at all. I personally was semi-familiar with most of the tenses long before I reached them in Duolingo but your point still stands.
I agree that I would have liked to have seen the different tenses earlier in the course.
For skills: Swedish Regions might be a nice bonus. Maybe along the lines of Selma Lagerlöf. I'm reading "Nils Holgerssons wunderbare Reise durch Schweden" (in German, my second native language). I think it's a wonderful basic guide to the regions of Sweden and their animals, plants, geography, ecology, and a little history. Ignoring the plot, it seems that some of this would make for good skill categories. Perhaps a skill with unique vocabulary for each region or even province: Småland, Svealand, Norrland, Dalarna, Västerbotten, Gotland, etc.
Also agree with everyday phrases. I've visited Sweden three times now and got by with my Swedish last time, except when buying groceries at saluhallen for example. I would be asked if I was paying with "kort eller kontant" which threw me for a loop; and not yet having gotten to numbers, paying was always a bit of dance to make sure I could see the register screen. Some of this early on would be helpful.
Idioms would be nice, but please include explanation of context in tips. For instance: If everything is alright and there's nothing to worry about in a certain situation, the idiom for what in English might be "no worries“ could be expressed with "Ingen ko på isen" (there's no cow on the ice) or "Ingen fara på taket" (there's no danger on the roof) from what I gather.
Perhaps some of this could be additional skills for lingot purchase, for instance vocabulary packets for travel phrases, or for regions (what if you're hiking, traveling in Jämtland and you wanted to learn some words specific to the Province for way-finding purposes, or if you get hurt). One could purchase these earlier in the tree if interested.
Keep up the great work!
I apologize in advance if this has already been mentioned and or answered, however...
Would it also be possible to have sentences recited (audio only / no text) in Swedish and in return have the user translate that audible sentence to English? (This would be in addition to the current lessons where one transcribes an audible Swedish sentence to Swedish text.)
(Hopefully this makes sense..)
Again, thank you and your team for the wonderful lessons!
I'll get started with my Swedish tree as soon as I finish my English tree so could someone tell me whether the new tree is ready?
I miss the feature of a wordlist of all the vocabulary that is learnt during the course (something like that is available in duolingo for example when learning french). I like to work with the wordlist as an additional way to remember vocabulary independant from the fixed lesson units...
I'm late to the party, but may i suggest a skill or exercise regarding constructions with "då"? I get that it mostly means "when", however it still confuses me a lot, haha!
At least to me, it also seems to be used quite a lot in text and speech that i've come across.
All in all, thank you guys so much for this course! It is awesome!
Compared to, e.g., the Polish course, the Swedish course is a model of clarity and good pedagogy. It also has nice elements of humor. I am especially taken with all the references to moose, in part because YouTube is filled with short videos in Swedish about various aspects of moose and I find that I can understand at least the written portions. I confess that spoken Swedish is still very difficult for me to comprehend. Thanks for doing a great and very helpful job.
Is there likely to be another tree expansion for Swedish? I have almost completed the course and I am extremely impressed at how much Swedish I have learned from it. However, I still feel I am lacking in a lot of every day vocabulary and it would be nice to see a few more topics like they have in the Norwegian course. I understand the amount of time and effort it takes from volunteers to develop the course. I'm just wondering if I should cross my fingers for some further content in the future. :) I don't really want to do the Norwegian course because Swedish is the language I chose and I think I will get confused.
Work on the tree has been on hiatus for quite a while, but we're actually just now in the process of starting it up again. It'll take time, but the ball is rolling. :)
Will it be an entirely new course from the beginning or will new topics appear in the existing course? :)
Assuming it will be like other courses (Dutch, Norwegian, Spanish), it will be additional content added to the existing course, with new skills, and new sections for existing skills. I'm interested to see what they'll have!
Thanks :) That's good to know. Keep up the good work! Some of the topics in the Norwegian tree like Tools, Weather, Wilderness, Materials and The Sea look quite interesting :)
Hi Austin, you may also want to consider using some traditional Swedish grammar books with exercises and Swedish children's books. This is really good so that you expose yourself not just to more Swedish vocabulary, but to multiple forms/media of the language. I'm currently using Bengt & Carol's Hällgren's Swedish 1 and also watching Swedish news channels on YouTube. At any rate, best of luck with Swedish!
Thanks, I'll take a look. I was considering Colloquial Swedish: The complete course for beginners, but I will take a look at Bengt & Carol Hällgren's Swedish 1. I'll give the Swedish news channels a try too. I've been trying to tackle Män som Hatar Kvinnor, but it's taking me a while to battle through that. I never thought of children's books, that's a good idea. It is kind of like being a child again, learning a language :)
Even after almost 2 years of learning Swedish every day, I still find Män som Hatar Kvinnor to be tough to read sometimes. Stick with it though, it’s a good story.
I searched books aimed at 9-12 year olds hoping I would find an easier read and came across the complete Chronicles Narnia in Swedish. I'm finding it much easier to read, I'm actually surprised how I can get through it!
Goddag! Jag har redan slutat det svenska trädet och jag tycker att det var värdeful och utan detta kunne jag inte lära mig svenska, för det finns inte många websites eller böcker. Men trots att trädet är mycket bra, tycker jag att ni måste tilläga ett kapitel om den svenska kulturen. Utom några städer av Sverige lär man någonting om den svenska kulturen och historia. Ett kapitel om Vikings, till exemplet, skulle vara perfekt! :-)
The issue of culture skills has been discussed before and the Swedish team has taken the stance that it's better to avoid these type of "Sweden" skills for two main reasons.
1. Swedish is spoken in both Sweden and Finland, and it's unlikely that there will be a separate course for Finnish Swedish. Therefore, we want to be inclusive.
2. Culture skills have a tendency of reinforcing stereotypes, which is not something we want to be a part of. It is up to each and everyone to create their own picture of Sweden/Finland.
Instead of this approach, we have chosen to spread cultural words throughout the tree. The tree is full of words that would be useful in the Swedish culture, but they are not presented as such.
I understand not wanting to focus too much on specific foods or mythology, but history could be interesting, and could be done for both Sweden and Finland. I loved the history insertions in the Dutch course.
Could you tell us a bit about what those history bits were like and what you liked about it?
Well, one of the last sections is basically historical events. It was used to introduce longer, multi clause phrases. Things like the eighty-years war and Spain's part in it, The Netherlands part in World War I, etc. Things I didn't know, because European history here is always taught as if Europe were one big country and had always been. The forum discussions were really interesting. The Politics section also had some facts about the set up of the government in addition to the usual words like judge, lawyer, etc. . I'm a bit of a history buff, as well as being a language geek, so any info like this is great. One other thing I liked about the Dutch course was the Rhinoceros, who prevented his owner from going on a plane because he was in the owner's backpack, and ate poffertjes with a fork (among other things) I got the feeling the course was directed towards older kids (high school and up) and adults. I'd love to have some information about the capitals of Sweden and Finland, how they came into existence, King Carolus??? (17th century), the ecology of the arctic which the two countries have in common, etc. It has a lot of wry humor (which I'm starting to find in the current Swedish course as I get farther along), and challenging sentences toward the end.
You will find many words like that further down in the tree. I don't think you'll be disappointed ;)
This sounds really interesting and I'd love to see something similar in the Swedish course too, personally.
You could make a "Sweden" and a "Finland" skill then. It would be nice if we learned some Swedish phrases that are also used in Finland, but they are a little different than in Sweden.
Also, I don't agree about the stereotypes. If you just add a skill where we'll learn about cities of Sweden and their monuments, some history facts and some traditional dishes, would that form stereotypes?
When it comes to geography, there is no such issue. We already teach the major cities and so on. Maybe we could extend that.
When it comes to Finnish Swedish, I believe that would suit better as a bonus skill, but we have no expertise in Finnish Swedish in the team as of today.
Like I mentioned, these historical, cultural and traditional aspects are already included in the tree. We might extend that, but probably not labelled as cultural skills (For example, you find traditional dishes under food, vikings and the royal family under people etc)
Although I think that it would be better to have a cultural skill, it's OK if you contain this vocabulary in other skills. Anyway, you could add a Finnish-Swede contributor who is an expert in such vocabulary and create a bonus skill. :-)
If we did add one 'Sweden' and one 'Finland' skill, we would definitely reinforce any stereotypes about the difference between Sweden Swedes and Finland Swedes. Every word we added in one of the skills would beg the question: So don't they have/do that on the other side of the Baltic?
On the other hand a specific skill with phrases/expressions that are really only used in Finland Swedish would be useful. My guess is we'll probably add that sooner or later (as a bonus skill), it's more of a question of priority. Plus of course the technical difficulty of the TTS: it would sound very odd to have Finland Swedish spoken by the same Sweden Swedish voice. After all, the sound of it is probably the biggest difference.
I would like to have a mythology skill, so that you can learn how to say "elf, dwarf, dragon, vampire, werewolf, mermaid, troll, ogre, unicorn, giant" and other fantasy literature creatures (though, I haven't yet finished the tree so I don't know if there are those words in the "Spiritual" skill)
Some of those words are in the "Spiritual" skill. Not all of them, though.
That is great news. I have just started but will keep track. I also think it would be better to split some skills into smaller units.
I personally really enjoyed the course/tree a lot. I don't think there's anything in the tree that should be removed.
I do have some suggestions, though:
I think the grammar explanations/Tips Notes could be more detailed. They start very detailed, but get shorter and shorter, until they're only showing how to construct some new grammar (without explaining its purpose in detail) or are completely left out (especially in the end, which seems reasonable. The start is obviously more important and not many people even get that far).
I also feel like some stuff, especially concerning sentence structure, is never really mentioned outside of the comments/discussions, but still expected from the learner. For example, the V2 rule seems to be very important and pops up in discussions all the time, but is never actually explained in the course (as far as I know). I just checked and the first time that it is mentioned in Tips Notes is in Adverbs 1, but is not explained there. Instead it is presented as something that the learner is supposed to know already. I was honestly quite suprised when I read about the V2 rule for the first time in some discussion and how everybody except me seemed to know it ;) Sentence structure is definitely one of the things I don't feel really secure in (if I have to write something myself), even after having finished the tree this summer and practicing every day.
I personally would love if there would be some grammar exercises... for example "What's the past tense of [insert verb]?" I don't know if that is possible, though, or this even fits the Duolingo approach. While I still feel that I have got an intuitive grasp of things like that, I still sometimes struggle with forming the past tense of a new verb, for example, since these rules are never really trained seperately in the course. They're mentioned and obviously you have to use them indirectly, but still, for me it feels like I've only learnt them on an intuitive level, which is good. But I can't use them if I don't have any intuition. Hope this makes sense, don't really know how to describe it better.
Maybe adding more "everyday phrases" would be nice. I was positively suprised that the tree doesn't start with the usual textbook fair/scenarios of "checking into a hotel" or something like that. But still, stuff like that is important and I noticed that I'm missing some of that when I was in Sweden in summer, even though I went through the whole tree before (of course this could also mean that I just forgot it....). I also remember some people in the discussions of the basic skills who were upset about having to learn more contrived stuff before they learnt this more expected, basic stuff...
I would, of course, love more skills ;D
/edit: Maybe I should also say that I am primarily on Duolingo to learn Swedish and cannot compare the tree to trees of other languages. Right now I'm focusing on learning Swedish, but since my experience here with Swedish was so overwhelmingly positive, I'm sure I'll start other languages in the future :) (planning on that already and been thinking about it for a long time, but for me focusing on one language at a time works best)
I agree that the tips and notes sections start off extremely in-depth and are so very helpful at the beginning but the further that you get into the course, the worse they become. I believe that some of them still say "coming soon". I think that everyone would appreciate the tips and notes sections being more fleshed out.
Everyday phrases is also something that seems to be lacking and I've had to learn a lot of the everyday stuff away from Duolingo, personally.
Agree with you. In addition it would be great if grammar rules are explained - perhaps at first hand in short - before they are used. For example there are exercises where you have to choose the adjective in the right case long before adjectives are introduced.
I also love grammar exercises, as you give you the confidence to know you are doing the right thing (especially with tenses, sentence structure and other specific things besides vocabulary).
It would be great to have sections repeatedly appearing in the tree were grammar is introduce, repeated, intensified and expanded (very much like the basics, just with increasing complexity) and they get more detailed deeper in the tree and you can go back and re-train yourself until you have it down. Maybe, these parts in a 'lower level' can also be 'expanded' with new vocabulary that gets unlocked once you have learned more vocabulary (verbs etc) in later parts of the tree? Sort of a branch that has grown new sprouts? ;-)
I have only just started and don't know what's coming, but I really appreciate to be able to re-do exercises, have many different sentences where the same skills are trained in slightly changing context and where there is a specific focus on one particular skill.
I agree too on the Tips and Notes section. I nearly always do a "timed practice" on lessons, so am not always able to view the discussions, if I didn't view them first time around. It would be great to get some of the valuable information in them out on the main page in a concise format.
Yes to the need for basics! I've been cramming for a trip to Sweden, and while I appreciate that Duolingo is teaching a more complete and well rounded Swedish than a simple phrase book, it would be nice if some of the tourist necessities appeared earlier. Like, numbers is 20-something lessons in?
Great news! :))) I was already excited when it was announced that you'd be adding bonus skills. I'm glad y'all decided not to dedicate precious time and resources to yucky pick up lines that every woman is so tired of hearing. Thank you. And I hope the Christmas skill is released soon before people get too busy with the holidays and school.
I've also always disliked all the stereotypes propagated in language classes so I think it was a wise decision not to include a skill dedicated to that when there's already so much information about Sweden and Finland throughout the course. I have learned a lot so far and haven't even finished my tree yet! When I thought I was getting close to the end now it looks like it'll take me even longer! I'm not complaining, though :)
I wouldn't remove anything, especially not the "crazy" sentences people keep complaining about. They are the most effective ones in helping people actually understand and use the language. I would definitely reorganize many of the skills, though. I think some skills such as "numbers" need to broken up in small sections, and smaller numbers should be taught way earlier. I had many other ideas about how I would reorganize skills as I was slowly climbing the tree, but now I can't remember them. I'll update when or if I do. I would also like to see new skills, such as a skill about daily living, routines, the apartment and stuff. My apologies if this is already part of the course and I missed it. I still have a few skills to go.
Thank you for this amazing course! I look forward to continuing to learn Swedish with this great community.
I very much agree with introducing numbers sooner. At least 1-100 should IMO be among the most basic things one learns about a new language. It's very odd to know how to ask what date it is but be unable to give the answer, for example.
I also agree with keeping the "odd" sentences -- both as an effective learning tool as you said, and because they spice things up a bit and are good for drawing a smile (though YMMV on that one of course).
A greater variety of sentences in each lesson would be great, especially if they include more difficult ones and preferably no more multiple choice exercises. Sometimes I literally get the same sentence four times in a row.
I haven't finished the tree yet so not sure i should be suggesting too much.. It may already be covered. Certainly some things such as prefixes and suffixes (ing, er, im, un, ly) are covered in parts but perhaps they could be given a small section of their own. Maybe it comes later.. Also i would love to know musical terms and not only instruments by the way but certainly including that. again that may come in the remainder of my tree so excuse me if it is already covered.
Would also love to have the v2 rule explained which i see so much in the comments, as has been mentioned, and i agree that the longer skills can feel daunting and would prefer 2 sets of 4 rather than 1 skill with 8 lessons.
There have been some occasions where words appear in alternative answers which have never appeared in a previous lesson, and also sometimes listening excercises appear before the words have been introduced (i was stumped by får får får when it appeared for the first time in a listening excercise i can tell you that much).
The strange phrases are excellent. I have felt like as the tree continues the sentences become more mundane and this makes them less memorable. I'd like to know more about eating ants..
Thank you so much for the course and for continuing to improve it. Its brilliant and im sure you'll do great things with it whatever you choose to do.
Totally agree with your prefixes and suffixes suggestion. I'd like to see more of that too! The same with strange phrases - it's always the odd things I remember most.
While I went through the tree with a fairly intermediate-ish knowledge of Swedish, it was still a tremendous help for me. Personally, I would love it to develop further, into more skills towards the end.
First of all: Thank you for the fun of learning Swedish that way! The tree is wonderful and doesn't need that much improvement in my opinion.
I'm half way through now, finishing the "Adjective 2"-skill soon. As far, I would recommend:
1.) More grammar explanations. The ones that are already there are good and sufficient, but I think there are some skills that could need a little explanation as well. In one special case I'm thinking of the colour-skill, in which the double definition (de vita kläderna) appears the first time, but its explanation comes 6 skills later. Maybe a shifting would help here as well.
2.) I see that the modal-skill has only one lesson, but att kunna and att vilja are covered long before the actual skill appears in the tree. Maybe it's worth to think about a shift here as well, for example before the infinitive-skill. So not every sentence consists of a construction like Jag vill/ brukar .... But perhaps things get worser than?
3.) After the past-skills the past tense is depicted again only in a very few sentences in the following skills, or so it seems to me. I'm always sad that the past tense is some kind of isolated this way. Adding more sentences with the past tense form in following skills would help to create much more diversity in Swedish learning here as well as constantly training the past tense form (not only through repetition and strengthening of the past-skills).
4.) Even if you exclude a culture-skill, I would totally love a skill about music (if it's not already in the arts-skill). As mentioned above fantasy or pop-culture would be a funny addition as well :)
EDIT: In the last weeks several ideas for new skills came to my mind. I'm wrapped them together to share with you, they are just suggestions, likely not all of them appropriate to implement:
crime: At least in my home country, (recent) Swedish authors and books are famous for the amount and quality of crime books. I would welcome a skill about terms that handle with crime and law :)
history: Even if a mythology skill is excluded, I am interested in historical terms (not limited on Swedish history), e.g. of the middle age like sword :)
science fiction: Some below already talked about it. Star Wars, Star Trek fans and more would be please to get known to terms like spaceship, lightsaber and so on.
physics: A mathematics skills is already desired. I think some basic terms like gravity, magnetism etc. are important for all of us. I'm sorry, if it's already covered in the science skill.
movies & pictures: It seems to me that many of us are interested in movies. Why not create a (very basic) skill about to shoot, perspective, director etc. Maybe some famous movie titles and movie quotes could be included?
quotes: Came to my mind while writing the point before. What about quotes of famous persons like Einstein, Shakespeare etc.? Would be interesting as well :)
I found the placement of the modal skill really odd too and also feel that there needs to be a fair bit more information about them. Modal verbs are pretty fundamental and it's hard to communicate properly without knowing exactly how they work.
Absolutely. It is only now, 2 years into learning Swedish, that I am starting to realise that there are subtleties to the Swedish modal verbs which are either not there in English, or do not match up exactly with their translations. I am still struggling with this, so would love some more lessons on these.
I know this is an old post and probably too late to influence anything much but I strongly agree that the modal verbs should perhaps be introduced a fair bit earlier. I had to go elsewhere to learn many of these in advance to be able to say the things I wanted and by the time I actually got to the modal verbs lesson my language skills were getting pretty solid - it felt odd to be learning them so late in the piece. Having them be introduced earlier would also give more tiem and opportunities for one to become comfortable with the subtleties (and subtle differences from English) of their use.
How about a lesson or maybe even skill about computers, internet, office:
I'd like to learn words for things like download, social media, keyboard, usb stick, file, (computer) mouse, virus, security, printer, window, button, connection, tablet, webcam, ebook, chat, scrolling, space character, text processing, digital, ... (Need to do some proper brainstorming for a real word list, but you get the idea, I think.)
But maybe more of it is covered in skills I have not reached yet anyway.
I know some of those words are already taught, like computer mouse and download. But I get what you mean and it's a good idea. Thanks for your input!
I second that. And I'd like to see more technical stuff. I think that wasn't covered in the tree by now. E. g. tongs, screwdriver, drilling machine, to sand, to file, to wallpaper, maybe also warning signs and so on.
That seems a bit too specific? How many people do you think use those kinds of things regularly compared to the vast amounts of people who interact with computers?
Not sure if more people use tools than computers - Of course, most of the duolingo users should be familiary with computers ;)
My suggestion about "tech-vocabulary" doesn't need to be provided in the same lesson with computer stuff. I hope that was clear. But I think there is still enough technical vocabulary which is useful for your next IKEA haul, or even crafting and handiwork. Not sure if words like "to saw", "to cut", "to assemble", "to glue", etc. (just a few examples that came into my mind) are already covered in the course. Maybe my examples in the first post were too specific, but I assume that there is still some technical vocabulary left which is relevant in quite a lot of people's daily life.
If you ever buy anything from IKEA, you need to know what an "insexnyckel" is :).
@MissMuse: Yes. :) Although it's funny, I've only heard Allen key and hex key before, didn't know they were called Allen wrenches as well.
@devalanteriel :) Well imagine my surprise when I looked up "Allen wrench" on Google and saw all these listings for "Allen keys"! :D
Agree, I like when they use common things like tools and materials.
Many are very close to English/German, but that can probably be a good thing to realize when learning a new language? That it is so very similar.
As a native, it is a lot of things that I just "know", or "feel", but I really don't know the basic and special rules, its interesting to start to learn new things about my own language. :-) I try to see if there actually WAS some rules here, ..or the school method: "Shut up and learn this now, just accept it! , ..don't ask how it works". So I probably need this course to!
A lot of rules in this below, that I dont know at all.. :
"En Tång, Den Tången, Många Tänger , En Röd Tång, De röda _ Tängerna .. , En Skruvdragare, Många skruvdragare .. :-) , En Borrmaskin, Många Borrmaskiner , Att borra med en borrmaskin, Ett sandpapper, Det Sandpappret, många sandpapper, att slipa, att sandpappra, att tapetsera, En varningsskylt, Många varningsskyltar, De nya varningsskyltarna är uppsatta nu..
-Besides that i don't complete the Swedish Tree yet, my major problem is the adjetives and verbs, maybe you can split to cover a more wide range of words in a better way, introducing the words very ''slow' and in a easily form... That's will be my apreciattion but apart of that is everything okey and very useful (Sorry if I committed mistakes in writting, english is not my mother language and i'm improving it yet). Salutes And congratulations.
I am nearly done with my Swedish tree. I traveled to Sweden this past summer and found what I had completed up to that point very useful. I am excited to hear you will be adding the bonus skills soon.
Here are some suggestions and ideas for improving the Swedish tree.
1) More phrase lessons early on in the tree. For instance, have a lesson on common phrases to be used in restaurants and cafes. Including stock phrases that travelers may use often such as "I would like.....", "Excuse me, ...." "Where is the....." "Can you tell me....." "Could you repeat that?" "Can I pay now?" "How do I say ---- in Swedish"
2) Lessons on Math including arithmetic and statistics.
3)Lessons on body parts.
4)Lessons on commonly used slang.
I never dared to ask for a math-skill, but thankfully I'm not the only one who appreciate such a skill. Even if some vocabularies are already taught in the numbers-skill, I think that there is still potential. But I admit that it should keep a balance between mathematical terms which are useful in daily life and the things from outer space.
As many Swedish learners mentioned before, it would be cool to have shorter skills. Short skills are really motivating. Just two more lessons and I will have another golden skill! sounds way better than Seven more lessons to go.
During my Swedish learning progress I got the impression that many famous figures have different names in Swedish cartoons, books etc. Donald Duck for example is called Kalle Anka. It would be nice to learn some of those. Not as a lesson or a skill, just as a fun fact in a few sentences every now and then.
Somewhere above someone mentioned an Astrid Lindgren-skill. I think this is a great idea! Book skills during the end of the tree with some relevant vocabulary to a (not that difficult) book to encourage people to read it in Swedish.
And last but not least: I'd love to have the course really long with lots of words in it. I know that it can't go on forever and that one day I will have to continue learning on my own. But using a dictionary is not the same as learning words with the help of Duolingo. A dictionary translates a word in another language and that's it. There are no comments with explanations and examples when/how to use that word and when it is better to use another word to express something. I can't expect a dictionary to answer if I write down a question. Duolingo is really comfortable and I would love to carry on with it as long as possible.
I think more lessons on the different verb tenses and maybe a having them little more spaced out throughout the entire course would be beneficial because I feel like there were all just briefly explained all at once without enough to give me a firm understanding of how each one works, making it very easy to get them mixed up. I'm really excited to see what happens to the Swedish course going forward :)
Great news guys, I appreciate all the work put into this course. There are two things on my mind currently that I'd like to share.
Firstly, it might be restricted by duo's algorithms, but I'll mention it anyway; Will it be possible to kind of spice up the fixed phrases when you are doing practice runs on them? Like for example associate the verbs that you are practicing with different adverbs and pronouns from a particular pool randomly. I mean, I know quite a few of these phrases by heart at this point, but i wonder if I'm able to use them intuitively. Or simply adding another sentence possibility to each of the words to showcase another example / way the particular expression is used would be really cool, though I know it is a lot of work.
Secondly, on quite a few occasions I have seen words that are listed in a particular lesson, but are not taught, and I only encounter them during practice runs, if at all. I usually repeat a lesson multiple times, and when people point these out, they seem to have issues with the same words not showing up, so i don't think it is random chance. Also, there are some lessons where new words are taught that are not listed under the lesson. Is this something that you know about / will be addressed in the coming version?
I think that splitting things up into more logical groupings (so then "Objects" would become several categories) would be a very good change.
Instead of Objects 1, Objects 2 etc. we could instead have something along the lines of Objects: Out and About, which could contain e.g. the words for road signs and for common buildings and other things which you would commonly encounter when out and about in a town/city.
Then you could have e.g. Objects: Home/Living, which would contain things relating to houses, such as furniture and other common household objects.
And so on.
You could also maybe have some verbs in there too, e.g. att diska is something that everyone should know and it relates to home/living but isn't currently taught, as far as I know. Then again, it isn't an object and I suppose it makes sense for the Objects skills to focus on nouns. But I digress.
I feel so fortunate to have been able to find and finish this course. Because of the excellent work of the Swedish team, I have fallen in love with a language that I decided to check out one day simply out of curiosity. Svenska has absolutely become a passion of mine -- definitely more than I had ever anticipated -- and I am having a blast exploring contemporary Swedish music, cinema, news, and short fiction, which I am able to enjoy completely because of the instruction I received via Duolingo.
In expanding this tree, I have only a few suggestions, requests, and pipe-dreams: 1) As this is a SV-EN course, I would love if more English-majority countries were represented in the activities -- specifically my country, Canada -- as a way to master the vocabulary necessary to discuss our own lives, cultures, etc. with Swedes. 2) I love learning verbs. Having finished the original tree, I realize that certain helpful verbs haven't come up (apologies if they have and I haven't remembered them!): to practice, to put up with, to memorize, to kick out, to doubt, to kid around with, to throw out, to brainstorm, to trick, to convince, to avoid, etc....the more verbs, the better, IMO. 3) When I'm not doing Timed Practice, I enjoy translating longer sentences. Paragraph-length chunks, perhaps a 4- or 5-sentence description of someone or something, might allow for more authentic and contextualized language patterns and the opportunity to take dictations from Astrid's angelic voice. 4) Finally, I would request a Bonus Skill that pertains to Social Issues. I think this is an interesting topic that many people are likely to discuss with Swedes, given Sweden's historic and contemporary focus on human rights. Therefore, vocabulary pertaining to immigration, gender/class/marriage/racial equality, homelessness, environmentalism, animal rights, and so on might be heavy, but I, for one, would find it fascinating and very helpful in terms of accessing Swedish news and magazines.
Thanks again, Swedish team, for your devotion to Duolingo's marvelous mission and your own beautiful Swedish language!
Oh and for bonus skills holidays would be good. Saint Lucia's Day and Vaffeldagen come to mind. (I don't know how far that would creep into culture, but I like learning about what separates Sweden from other countries.)
First off, I would like to say (As most of the others from the comments I have read agree on) that I absolutely love this language and I am amazed with how much effort you guys put into all of this, so thank you. There isn't too much I would change although I think it would be nice if even earlier (Even though this gets started pretty quick) in the course we would learn major sentences, so if for example someone had a business trip and wanted to learn quick sentences that would be useful during the trip. Again, thank you so much for all the dedication you all have provided for this course, as it has been very informative and an exciting experience. (Whoo, I can read the Swedish in IKEA manuals now). I cannot wait to see everything that will come in the future.
Oh! By the way, is there any way you can add one of the document translating thingys? (I can't remember the name right now, but it's on the French.) I would highly enjoy that.
No, we can't do immersion. It's been answered countless times before, but it's not up to us to implement.
I'm only halfway through the tree, but I noticed that some earlier words could benefit from being reused in the later sections. For example, pronouns ert and deras can probably be sneaked into random lessons, and they can be reviewed without having to specifically do the pronoun course.
Edit: Another idea, apologies if it's covered in sections I haven't reached yet!
How about a section for filler words, like
- I mean...
- et cetera
- ... right?
And whichever homegrown Swedish fillers there might be.
Agree 100%, I'd like it if there were more focus on phrases and interjections. The course so far is all about the written language, not so much about the spoken one. I often find that I can read Swedish quite well, but speaking is still quite a problem because I often don't know certain interjections/phrases.
- You got the job? Nice!
- You didn't get the job? Too bad...
- Can you get me a beer or something?
- Just look!
- This is just water, right?
Stuff like that.
Of all the improvements that can be made by the course creators without help from duolingo developers this is the most important one.
It's not only speaking, but even in writing I am lacking the skills to put words in common sentences.
What helps me a lot, are the official memrise Swedish courses. They include lots of phrases plus the voice is natural and often quite fast and with the usual Swedish "bluriness" (instead of generated and overly clear like on duolingo).
I agree. I learned some of those outside of the course and some may be scattered in the course but I forget where.
Whatever... - vadsomhelst/skitsamma
...right? - Stämmer?
Please someone let me know if skitsamma is considered a swear word. If it is I'll remove it. :)
Yes, it's skit samma in the "I'm an annoyed teenager" sense, and vad som helst in the other one. While skit samma can be used rudely, like its English counterpart, it is not a swearword. Don't put it in formal texts, though. :)
Thanks for the explanation! I have seen it written without a space presumably informally or due to the tendency Swedish has to not use spaces.
I would have some suggestions as well:
put first the simple words before their composites. for example, in the actual tree, "Trädgarden" is taught before "träd" (but "trä" and "träd" are together, which is fine). Also, learning the particles would be nice (something like a lesson for 1 particle with many words that have it).
Maybe put at start words that are much easier to think about, or the every first to be used. It's not to say people learn only basic sentences, but I think being able to get an hotel, a taxi, or basic food as quick as possible is good for motivation, words like "whale", "hunter", or "laser saber" can come later. A variant is the words that are easy to think of: basically, I use to try to think in swedish (or any language I'm learning) while doing some boring activities, and it's easier if I can make sentences about what I see. For example, thinking "the red car is turning left" in swedish while riding my bike in the city would be a good exercise. Basically, I see vocabulary about city, cycling (nature), shower (soap, water,...) important at the beginning, there are probably other ones.
I'm personally not a huge fan of more vocabulary, I await from Duolingo or any method for language learning to give me basics about a language that allow me to understand and speak basically, then, I will simply talk to people or read real material with a dictionary to learn further. And I think that bonus skills are designed for it, maybe a "star wars", "administration", "doctor", "history", "engineering", or "refugee" bonus may be interesting! About vocabulary, I had an old book with the most common vocabulary used in english, the 2000 more common words are useful to understand more than half of a language. I think swedish generally say almost the same things than english, lists would probably be nearly the same. If I find more info, I share...
P.S: I learn from english, but I'm basically french, and I would be happy to take part in a project of swedish from french based on your work (basically: translating english content to french, then adapt it to french specificities, some hard points for native english speakers are easy for us and vice versa). I definitely won't have time to make it alone, I think it would need at leat one native swedish speaker, but I can help. Is there any discussion about such a project?
Thank you for your feedback!
We have no discussion in our group of people about making a new course, but our ever-wise contributor Arnauti is part of the course teaching Swedish for Russian speakers. Each course is a different project. And although we like to share experiences and tips in the contributor community, each course has to have at least a few dedicated people to them. If you would like to create a new language tree, try to get together a few people who speak both languages fluently and contact Duolingo devs, and I'm sure they can help you somehow. Each new course released here on Duolingo makes me happy. :D
I've noticed that in lessons that have many exercises, say 25-30, phrases tend to be repeated multiple times. For example, I just finished the third lesson of Future Tense which had 30 exercises in it. I didn't count how many different phrases were used in the exercise, but it felt as though I was entering some phrases for the fourth or fifth time.
So my suggestion would be to minimise the excessive repetition of phrases within exercises by introducing more phrases. Thanks.
Bonus skill: Music ... I am a fan of Swedish synthpop music (bands like Sista Mannen På Jorden, S.P.O.C.K., or Nasa), and many others are into svensk metal, so maybe a bonus course that deals specifically with music terms from one or both of these genres of music, would be awesome.
This is exciting! I'm not sure what I can suggest for improvements as it is already great but I look forward to seeing what happens. Some bonus skills would be amazing!
A question, if new skills are added, would one have to do those before proceeding, even if they are past that point and/or have completed the tree?
When the new German tree was rolled out, I had a lot of skills that I had to go back to complete. That said, there's no guarantee that the new German roll out will be the same as the Swedish 2.0.
Just one short aspect: I think that it would be more helpful to use "present-conjugated" verbs in the verb-skills so that you can see and directly learn the ending (-ar/-er). I think it is much easier to learn it from the beginning than later on because otherwise at least my brain somehow starts remembering that it ends in -ar as all infitives end with -a. Thanks a lot though for the great job you're doing, I'm looking forward to learning new skills!
More tips and notes! The colours are really confusing. Why do I say "svart" and some other time it should be "svarta"? Otherwise the course is brilliant! Jag älskar den!
Definitely more tips and notes. Most of them are really useful but they seem to get worse the further into the course that you get. A couple (near the end of the course) still say "coming soon", even!
You'll understand the thing with the colours once you get to the lesson on adjectives.
Another suggestion for you. If you'd like me to stop posting my suggestions as separate comments then please let me know but been as though they are not actually related to each other, I figured that I would do it this way instead.
Personally, I really struggle with the cardinal directions. It seems like it is a bit of a mess in both languages.
In English, we have lots of variants on e.g. north: north, northern, northerly, northwards, northbound and probably more. It seems that Swedish has a lot of variations too (maybe all languages do? I wouldn't know) but you only teach one or two of them for each direction.
I am not even sure if I know how it all works entirely in English without stopping to think about it for a moment, so then it is no surprise that I feel pretty lost in Swedish, especially when I have read that some of them seem to have multiple functions.
I did not read through all 196 comments, so I apologize if this was brought up before. And also a disclaimer that I haven't finished my tree yet.
What does everyone think about teaching numbers earlier? I ask because in more formal languages courses that I have done in the past, numbers are often taught relatively early, more early than they are taught in DL courses.
I think that numbers would also help with time and with currency discussions, etc.
Thanks and cheers from USA.
I'm not sure how feasible this is, or if it's even necessary, but I think it would be cool to see a bonus skill with Swedish words that may not be spoken often but have Danish and Norwegian counterparts that are spoken often there. It would be great to get to know some of the less used Swedish words that are useful for understanding Danish and Norwegian.
It would be totally cool and important, if there would be skills, were you actually had to talk a bit, like movie/pop culture quotes (using a mic). It is not only important to learn to speak, but imagine you need to say substantial quotes like "I am your father..." etc.
French for instance has such instances in like every skill once or twice, but it could also be a skill on its own, depending on what seems more apropriate or for testing reasons.
Also, please make more interesting sentences. Some are very normal. But some are outstanding for some reason, like the sentence is weird or it would be a good sentence in a book. Put "flesh" to it by thinking about a sentence. What could make it better? Use old insider. What happens to the ant ant the spider now? And the vegetarian bear? ^^
Also interesting topics would include (in my humble opinion): - pirates - vikings - mediaval times - climate zones - fantasy - science fiction - computer games, especially minecraft :)
also missing: - things you have to do in a household (washing, cleaning clothes, ironing, baking...)
I have a development question: why does the German course have an immersion tab but the Swedish one cannot have an immersion tab?
You may well have learned about this elsewhere by now, but Duolingo stopped developing the immersion aspect at some point, probably in connection with an issue over the legality of using the translations in Europe, and it's not expected to show up for the newer courses. although some people do -ahem- repurpose the setup...
New course question - feel free to direct me elsewhere - but how does one get in touch with the developers to suggest or begin work on a new course, like Kurdish or Old English? I know there needs to be a "critical mass" of contributors, but how that process start?
Could someone tell me whether there is already any available bonus skill on Swedish course? I still have been in the beginning stage of the course here, but I have been enjoying it a lot and I would really like to see some of them available for this course as well.
There are currently none. The course content creators have prepared a couple, but they're being held back for technical reasons. As soon as the Duolingo coders give the go signal, they can come up.
I finished my Swedish tree yesterday ^_^ It was a nice one I should say and it's really a pity that you can't add genders for the mouseover. What I would like to see more are travelling skills and maybe more grammar skills for the noun + adj agreement. Such topics as business and politics were totally boring for me, but it's my own opinion :)
P.S. Yes, and maybe a couple of bonus skills would be nice, but not these like flirting, but really smth useful :D
I don't know what kind of issue this is, but I would really like to be able to see what we did wrong on quizzes, so we could learn from them. Just giving a score doesn't really help, it just shows how much it thinks you know, but it can't account for typos, and alternate answers that need to be fixed. Just a suggestion. :)
I'm sure the course moderators would like that as well, but since it's a technical issue I'm afraid you'd have to take that up with the Duolingo techs directly. :)
Hi! One thing I would suggest is not introducing repetera and upprepa in the same lesson. I have to guess that the original thought was, "these two words are troublesome for learners, so we will show how they are different in a lesson." For me, this backfires. [Anecdote warning] Since they are introduced in the same lesson, I have to rely on critical/analytical thinking to keep them straight. That ensures they will always be troubling for me, since they get registered in the 'critical thinking' part of my brain, instead of the pattern-recognizing part of my brain. [Sorry for being so hand-wavey here.] My point is, if I am introduced to one word first, I can quickly absorb it and start recognizing phrase patterns. Later, being introduced to the other word becomes a task of differentiating new patterns from old ones. That task is much more fluid/fluent than remembering some rule to differentiate them.
I feel like this happened before in an earlier lesson, though I've since forgotten it. I just remember being stuck on two similar words that were "explained" in the same lesson.
This would definitely apply to tycker/tänker/tror, as well.
Tack så mycket för goda nyheter! I love the layout of Duolingo lessons and the tree has great reach and depth without being intimidating. Form my dabbling in other courses, it would nice to add Flashcards but I understand that's not under control of the contributors.
I used the Swedish tree to bootstrap myself to studying at a B1 (intermediate) level at the local Scandinavian cultural centre. As an older technical guy, that's high praise on how good the course is.
In discussion with the native Swedish teachers of my new class, I apparently am a bit behind in: Verb placement. Some of the answers seem to violate the 'verb second' rule but I'm sure I just need more practice. Prepositions and idioms. Maybe strange to link them but it seems everything is på until it's vid and 'som' makes it an idiom. Again, not true but indicative that I could use more work on it. "Helping verbs". I have so little info I don't even know the correct term. For example 'ju' comes up frequently in my reading & I don't think I've seen it in the Duolingo tree.
Ni gjorde en utmärkt kurs - tusentack. I look forward to whatever additions you make - I'm sure they'll be excellent.
I think I know the answer to this, but is it possible to choose options for the type of lesson you want to strengthen? If you want to work specifically on being able to understand spoken words, have an option to only translate from spoken prompts, or if you want to only translate from written Swedish to English to focus on that, or only multiple choice? Is it possible to have strengthening exercise options like that?
if you make any further edits to the OP, could you please date them? I love seeing the updates, but I wish I knew (for example) when edit 4 was made so I knew when to base the rough estimate of 'a few months' from. :)
Great suggestion that I didn't even think of from my contributor perspective. Will do! Thank you.
First off, thank you very much for your hard work on this! To my understanding, this course is all volunteer work, so I sincerely hope that you're enjoying yourselves and/or collecting some good material for your CVs. :-)
Some minor suggestions:
- Introduce "håg" before introducing "kommer ihåg"
- More exercises on differences between prepositions, first by contrasting them more directly, i.e., have exercises on two near-identical sentences with only minimal changes beyond replacing prepositions (på/i/bredvid, or fram/från). Second, I suspect that there's some idiomatic "unnatural" use of prepositions, as in many languages (such as "getting on a train/plane", in English), which would be great to highlight, if they do exist.
- I don't think that we need quite that much exercise specifically for regular past tense and infinitive forms, as the rules are pretty straightforward; this could be shortened, with more of the (regular!) past tense forms popping up 'organically' in later exercises.
- I'd have a preference towards having more grammar earlier (not in the first two skill sections, but in #3 and #4, with the final #5 being new words only). Not sure if this is appropriate for other learning styles, though.
All of my bigger requests (more explicit grammar/word placement rules for Converger/Assimilator-style learners, and breaking bigger topics into two or three sub-topics) have already been mentioned.
Looking forward to the next revision of this tree-- tack så mycket!
Just one small thing, regarding your first bullet point: håg is a word which while not archaic is in practice really only used for certain fixed expressions, almost to the point where I think it might do more harm than good in a language course. I'm willing to bet a significant number of Swedes don't actually know what it means.
Here is how I would go about adding a lot of new words (and I think Swedish could use a lot of new words, especially if compared to the German tree):
Go to any Swedish news site. Open an article. Pick the words that are in that article but aren't up here.
I'm not quite sure if I'm posting in the right area, but I'd like to see some Swedish tree options for microbiology (e.g - What type of bacteria is growing on the petri dish?), chemistry (e.g - The carbon atom likes to bond with the oxygen atom.), medical (e.g - colostomy bag), nutrition (e.g - protein, carbohydrates) and even some swear words because they break things up and make it more fun. :) An option for naming car parts/going to the mechanic would be cool, too.
Also, having more coloured bubbles on each line of my tree helps give me more options to choose from and keeps me more engaged. When my brain gets bored of conjugating verbs, it's nice to be able to switch to naming things like household items, feelings, animals, just something different from conjugating. If there can be 3 - 5 options per line of the tree, that would be wicked.
What I would like to see is an Advanced Swedish tree completely separate from this one that people who have finished this tree can continue on to build their skills even further. This has no precedent though so I don't know if it is feasible or possible.
I like this idea... but agree it may not be feasible within Duo's structure.
Well they can't add swear words (Duolingo policy), but I agree with everything else!
I am still working my way through the tree, but I have a few comments. Sorry if those have been mentioned earlier. I did not read the whole thread.
1) The skill "colors" has no introduction or explanation or anything. Absolutely no warning that the endings will change and there are irregular changes... The explanation will come many skills later under the topic adverbs. I think either the order of appearance should be changed or the theoretical part that is currently under adverbs should be transferred under the colors.
2) I find strenghtening of skills very important. However if I have to do “definites” it always freaks me out because I truly feel that I am wasting my time. The vocabulary is very limited there. I do not make mistakes in writing "ett kaffe", "kaffet", "en apelsin", "apelsinen" etc. but I am forced to write them through numerous times during a single skill-strengthening process. The last time I had to translate "kaffet" into English 3 times. So a few suggestions: a) strengthening "definites" and "plurals" should always go together. It would be significantly more challenging when one has to pay attention on different aspects. b) if possible the nouns learned later down the tree should somehow be added to the exercise. c) Although the translation exercises from Swedish to English are essential whilst learning new words the amount of them in skill-strengthening process should be limited to minimal. If one can translate from English to Swedish, he can most probably also do it vice versa. The aim of the Swedish course should be practicing Swedish.
3) I wish some pronunciation guide was added to the course. It is not as easy as you seem to think it is.
4) I wish different tenses (past, future, giving orders etc.) would be introduced in the earlier stages. I am about half way through the course and I have only learned present so far. However I feel that I can learn vocabulary easily on my own but the grammar is something I really need help with. I understand that learning a language without some vocabulary is impossible, but teaching a language only in present tense is tricky too. I have already encountered "Jag är född i juni" and I do not think that this is present tense...
Anyways, keep up the good work and thanks for the course.
I agree with most of your points. Just wanted to say that the "too much Swedish to English translation" seems to be a general problem of Duolingo in recent months. There have been a lot of discussions about the courses getting to easy because of this etc. Unfortunately this is a problem that the course creators cannot influence, since they only provide the content, not the software - and as far as I know the staff of Duolingo has not really addressed this issue so far. :/
Concerning pronounciation guides... I suggest YouTube (there are a lot of pronounciation videos there), watching Swedish televion at svtplay.se (or listening to radio) and forvo.com Not really as methodical as you might like it to be, but still good sources :)
In the science unit on level 11, the gendering of some of the sentences suprised me. Why is it always a male reading, studying or researching? The only time a female is mentioned is when she has lost weight.
Also, when the world "el" is read out, it's read as "eller liknande", I think there's been a mixup with the abbreviated form of it.
I've gone through all the sentences in the Science unit now and I think you have gotten an incorrect impression. She writes articles, her analysis is very interesting, she receives the Nobel Prize in chemistry, and is a member of several academies, while it's his task to take care of sick children. Plus, the sentence 'Professorn förklarade sin forskning för oss .' has her in its default translation. (the only sin in this lesson).
She does lose weight, but we also ask 'How good-looking is he on a scale from one to ten?'
We do take gender stereotyping very seriously though, so thank you for reporting it even though your suspicions were unfounded in this specific case.
The sound error on el is the worst in the course, but unfortunately there's nothing we can do about that.
I suggested some time ago that you insert a space before the full stop. Would this lead the coputer to not see it as an abbreviation?
Didn't work. It makes the same error when it's a separate word. Honestly I think we've tried everything by now.
It seems that if you try to translate "EN EL" (in capitals) with Astrid, that it gets around the "eller liknande" issue.
I'm not sure if you'll be able to make use of that workaround though. I imagine the TTS is all generated and that you can't override a specific word with its own audio file.
I've tried capital letters too and it didn't work for us. If Duo decided to put resources into this, they could give us the tools to manipulate the markup that lies behind the sound files. But that will probably never happen.
The old TTS had much worse errors so at least it's better than it used to be.
Oh, sorry, I must have been mistaken on the workaround but I did find a workaround. I'll reply once I figure out what it was.
Have Duolingo given you access to the verb conjugation chart feature and the explain feature (e.g like German) for the new tree?
If not, someone should ask them. It never hurts to ask.
This is probably asking way too much, but i find myself wishing i had some flashcards--electronic or paper would work--to study when not doing lessons on the site. Perhaps offer them for a fee to those who might be interested?
http://www.memrise.com/course/462533/duolingo-swedish/ Even works offline in the app.
Just so you know, I was actually thinking about creating a set of flashcards that people can just print out based on my Memrise course (the course above). I have some graphic design experience so I should be able to make something half-decent.
I was also thinking about creating a tool to export the course to Anki decks and such but that is something for another time.
For now I'm just focusing on adding audio to the entire course.
whereas the memrise course is fine, and i'll use it, i guess i'm old-school enough to like flashcards too...
This course is amazing. I finished the tree am am just making it gold to level up. I feel I am beyond a beginners ability thanks to this course and with others. I would appreciate as much Swedish as possibles so I can develop more. Tack så mycket det är intressant och mycket bra Svenska kurs. Snälla bereda många för mig är det verkligen hjälper.
I really can't scroll through 400 comments to see if these are already here, but more verb forms, indeterminate pronouns, and how to use the words such as "ju" and "val". I am totally okay with making this course harder and really diving into Swedish grammar. Obviously vocab words are important, but noun lists are so easy to find elsewhere. I really want to know how to form sentences well!
Just tried to leave a comment, but don't think it went through. If it did, please forgive the repetition. The gist of my suggestion was: could you add a section with readings, followed by comprehension questions?
Well, the answer is quite simple. More vocabulary in different contexts and more complex sentences. The grammar bases are covered adequately, I think.
I think the most complex sentences are complex enough, just in low numbers. More vocabulary would definitely be nice. It can kinda be supplemented by courses on sites like Memrise, but one doesn't get any proper practice using them.
I would love to have some male voiced sentences as well. As a man it helps me pinpoint some sounds better.
What about more vocabulary like kitchen tools, or useful phrases from everyday activities, like what is the next bus stop, washing machine options, content of a bill, what can be asked at the supermarket, sending a mail post. etc.
both german and norwegian feature some of these, so I have some hope swedish can too!
I've been studying through all of the verb tenses lately, and most of the units in the tree are great. However I'm really struggling with passive. The notes you give don't even cover all of the differentiations that occur within the examples you give. I've been using other resources to try and figure it all out. I get how -ar perifrastic verbs work, but nothing else holds consistent with any of the rules I can find. I would super appreciate it if you added a bunch more explanation to that skill (it's near the end of the course - we can handle it - in fact i can't handle it without extra explanation). Especially for the perifrastic verbs it would be great if you could explain how each declension works and give a bunch of examples.
Thanks!! Keep up the amazing work
I wish they had "idioms and Proverbs", along with "Flirting" in Swedish.
should be a lot more translation questions where you actually type and english phrase into swedish, swedish to english is easy because i can use context clues of words i know even if theres a swedish word in the middle i don't know, but english to swedish requires i know spelling which helps
I am 30% into Swedish and absolutely love it! I have made more progress in 2 weeks than I ever made with anything else. It is very well thought out. That being said, my one wish would be to encounter a 'paragraph challenge' at the end of every major section that includes concepts and vocabulary within. My apologies if that is considered 'immersion'. It would help to see the different tense, gender and plurality rules represented in one gulp. It would be an exercise in programming at most, stringing together previously taught sentences in a coherent manner. It WOULD require a different methodology from your current input scheme however. Just a thought. Thank you for the Swedish holy grail!
This is something that would have to be implemented by Duolingo I think. But it would be really cool.
Can you provide an update on developing Duolingo Swedish 2.0 and on developing the Swedish bonus skills? Swedish is the first language course I have been introduced to with Duolingo and I would very much like to move forward. Tack så mycket!
not sure if its been said (i read a little of the thread and couldnt see it), but i think onomatopoeia would be a good set of lessons. until recently i thought onomatopoeia was universal until i found out swedish pigs go Nöff insead of oink
I think it's probably a bad fit for the course, since the aim is to teach mainly practical Swedish. However, it's also an excellent idea for an extracurricular activity. I'll make a note to maybe put together and post something like that in the forums. :)
In the skills that have 5 and more lessons it would be great if i could strengthen the skill after doing 2 or 3 lessons already. At this moment only the test out option is available. I like to really understand and practise after a few lessons before i move on, specially if there are 8, 9, or 10 lessons in a skill. I of course know you can do that from the home page, however after 1 or 2 practise rounds it mixes all my previous skills in there, which is good of course, however sometimes i really have a need to practise those particullar lessons of a skill. My apolegies for my writing, english is not my native language. thank you.
I do to, but the problem there is that I remember the correct answer in those particullar sentences.
Would it help if they just added more different exemples within a lesson's database? That would be simpler, with no additional programming. :-)
That would be very helpfull because simply remembering the correct answers feels like I'm cheating. I really hope your suggestion will be implemented. Thank you very much.
Very late, but I think that it's still possible to give some suggestions here.
I think what a couple people have said about the very long lessons is a good point - some of them are very difficult to get your head around as there are a lot of words put into a single lesson, so possibly breaking them up a little would be nice.
A lesson on partikelverb is probably one of the most important things to add as there are such a large number of them in Swedish and they often have a lot of real-world usage in everyday speech.
Possibly a lesson on some compound words would be quite nice; something I struggle with is knowing when words should be compounded rather than written with a space. If there aren't really any rules about this, at least some examples of common ones or something like that.
Looking forward to giving the Tree 2.0 a shot - I was very impressed by the size and breadth of the Norwegian skill tree and I think it'd be great for the Swedish one to be like it. Speaking of which - if those of you who are making the Tree 2.0 need ideas, I don't think it'd hurt at all to have a look at the Norwegian tree to get some.
Would it help, if I ask other swedish persons from the Internet? I mean, changes for helping are pretty small if they don't know Duolingo yet, but maybe I tell them about Duolingo first and in a few weeks 1 or 2 might be willing to help a bit? Would it be worth a try?
So... no idea if this has been said by anyone previously as there are far to many comments to review them all this time! That said... I just started the German course and have found that when you hover over a noun it gives you the noun's gender. This would be immensely helpful in the Swedish course also if it were at all possible. Tack så mycket! :)
So, I recently finished the tree and honestly think you guys have done a great job with it! A couple of things I would like:
info re the use of the word "ju" (not the one in the ju/desto construction). I see it used all the time and still do not really understand it. It seems to function as a kind of positive reinforcer but... well, anyway, I would ideally like the course to cover this. (Also the word väl when used within the sentence to modify it rather than simply as "well"... I don't entirely understand this use yet.)
perhaps more longer multi clause sentences towards the end of the course. I feel like the sentence constructions remained fairly simple throughout and most of my learning of how to construct multi clause sentences has come from a combination of Arnauti's awesome word order discussion combined with my everyday reading (kinda learning by diffusion from newspapers and Harry Potter på svenska!) I still struggle a bit with constructing multi clause sentences and I feel like it is holding me back a bit.
the word "ej" should be covered somewhere. It is on every blimmin street sign here and whilst it is a minor point and I get that it is not in common usage elsewhere, it seems that it would be an easy word to include. To be fair, this is discussed within the comment sections but I still think it should be a formal part of the course.
"hen" should probably be covered as well. We do pick it up fairly easily outside of the course, but I think it would be nice to include it formally.
otherwise, just more! More of anything and everything! Will consume whatever you have to offer!
I have to say though, that using Duolingo as my primary source of knowledge (though not the only one obviously), I can now read newspapers fairly fluently and I think that I have the tools to be able to speak fairly well. I just need more time listening and speaking to become confident with using the language. You guys have done a really great job of equipping us with everything we need to get by in most situations.
I know it's been a year since you wrote this, but im wondering, have you been able to solve your problems you listed here yet? :D
Sounds great to me! :) I'm all for making all of Duo's courses the best they can be!
Sounds great! I don't suppose anything you can affect involves programming, right? I have a language technology background, so I'd be able to help with that.
Unfortunately, we cannot do anything about that. You could contact the Duolingo staff if you want to help them out with that.
What are the plans for Bonus skills? Because I do normally like learning flirting and idioms. (I am a young lad interested in fine Swedish women and words.) However I am interested in all forms of bonus skills and would be interested in hearing what is valued as Bonus skills for Swedish!
So far we have developed a Christmas skill and an idiom skill.
The Swedish team is not very fond of the flirting skill, but you can find some great pick-up lines in the main course.
We are discussing other bonus skills as well.
Oh boy! So is each team restricted to ONLY 3 bonus skills? Or will there be the possibility to add more later? Also, if you buy the Christmas skill? Does it stay forever, or only for Christmas?
I don't think we have any such restrictions, but I honestly don't know.
If you buy Christmas it will stay, but it will only be available to get around Christmas time. We will hopefully be able to release it soon.
Can you make it so that the voice saying the words is more natural? I don't want to sound like a robot :)
@Anrui, oh alright, well thanks anyway. I really appreciate this program, and it's really working!
(why do I have downvotes?)
I just finished the skills tree, and would mind learning new words, but I am going to have to spend so much time re-goldenifying my completed skills.
having a blast. The only reason why i wanted to learn swedish because this youtuer named pewdiepie aka Felix keliberg is swedisg. I plan to go to sweden when I am in my 20's. Thank you guys for the comments. I reallylike the.
That was the same for me! My first lesson in Swedish was from Pewdiepie. But it's so much more for me now. :)
When you say a tree 2.0 for swedish, does that mean there will be an additional tree to the existing one with totally new exercises? I would love to see a better integration of the exercises rather than just having seperate exercises. It would also be good to see more in depth declinatioins of the adjectives. It would also be good to see the skills being used in a more integrative way.
It means there will be a new tree replacing the current one soon enough. As for your input, thank you. :)
Just to add my vote to this, I think if you broke up the lessons into no more than 4 or 5 units and then maybe kept a theme within the individual units (At the store, making friends, Traveling) that would be great. When you have to go through 9 lessons at a time wanting to get that gold badge, it feels really daunting and playing catch up is crazy hard that way.
I don't think so. Most likely is that we'll work on it and then release it when we feel that we're done. Might take a while, since all our work is volunteered.
I am so excited about this (since I am near the end of my tree) that I can't help my curiosity and ask - approximately how long do you think it will take to make a Tree 2? I ask cause I picture this creation process as an enormous amount of efforts that takes several months and I wonder if I should start looking for other study resources if it will be released more than 3 months later.
I also wonder - are the "Coming soon" tips & notes going to arrive before the Tree 2 or should we expect them as part of the new tree?
Thanks a lot guys for the great work you are doing on this course! I am very happy with the current tree. Yes, some skills are longer than others but for me that just brings the joy of diversity :)
I am wondering about whether or not the tips and notes sections that are still missing will be added before or after the second version of the tree as well.
As for your question relating to duration, I believe I saw one of the moderators say that it is probably going to take 2-3 months.
There are a lot of good resources out there. A few things I'd recommend off of the top of my head are 8sidor, klartext, svtarkiv and lättläst books.
Thank you for the response and the resources recommendations! :)
Btw one T&N of the missing ones (the Passive Participles skill) was recently added thanks to a forum topic here.
I was just going to say that if there had have been a beta test then I probably could have dedicated a fair bit of time to help testing the new tree.
That's entirely understandable that it may take a while! I realise that it is a voluntary thing and I appreciate everyone's hard work.
I don't know if beta testing is even possible for trees that have graduated from regular beta when building tree 1.0. But if so, then we'll probably get in touch with people here on the forums about it. :)
It is a fun, easy and effective course and the more advanced it becomes, the better. Thank you so much for your work with this. Tack så mycket!
Changes are always welcome! Once you finish the tree it gets very hard to keep motivation up. This would push people to revise it with renewed enthusiasm.
Det är dags att förändra trädet! :D
Hello swedish teaching team. First thank you for this wonderful teaching method, I have been completely addicted for nearly one month now and I shall sure go on for Swedish and probably more languages. So be sure I'll follow with a lot of interest any improvement. Now, I believe that an introduction to the reading would be a +, as I have to admit I have a hard time to decide how I should pronounce the "k", the "a", the "ä", the "j", the "g"or the "j". Are there any general rules we should know? I use to give french lessons to spanish people and took at least two classes for that. It really really helped. Last question : Are you planning to create a course of swedish for french speakers one day? If so, I would love to help. Må Kraften vara med alla !
I actually replied to a question about Swedish/French to VinzJeff above. Perhaps the two of you can get in touch and see what you can do?
Thanks for this. I currently live in Sweden and could use more practice, so more skills will help. How about including new lessons with vocab covering common situations, such as at a grocery store, bank, etc?
Thanks again for all you do!
I'm not very far through the course, so please accept my apologies if mys suggestions are already present in some far off lesson.
Could we have a lesson dedicated to classroom/office equipment? When teaching new to English children in my day job (admittedly, no Swedes have yet passed through my classroom!) these vocab items are invaluable.
I think that something that stopped me in the course when I was completing it, was that some of the skills were very long, up to 10 lessons in a skill at some points, and for me, as a learner, that is extremely daunting, and un-motivating. Something I think that you guys need to do is break down some of those skills, to make them more manageable, and also, easier to remember. Learning 10 lessons like that more of becomes a task to do, and you only learn those words for the lesson, and overall, may remember 2 at most from it. Shorter skills, like from 2-4 or 5 lessons are great, and I usually retain the vocab from them much better. I think that if you can break up them, it will keep a lot more people interested. Also, please keep the skill at the end, I really loved it! I believe it was a party skill. Tack så mycket!
The "-s passive" and the "perifrastic passive" need splitting up. There also needs to be more focus on the passive verb tense. It is a big part of the language and it is hard to get used to, especially for someone who is only familiar with the way that English handles the passive tense - with word order.
I actually don't think they are a very important part of the language, my main advice for beginners about the passive in Swedish would probably be "dont' use it" :)
We tend to use the passive less and less, except for some very common combinations.
Fair enough but I have to ask, why do you think that beginners should not use it? I heard and saw it used fairly often when I was in Sweden.
Regardless, I still think it might be a good idea to split that lesson up into two lessons.
Some expressions are used all the time, like jag är född 'I was born' and also general constructions like X anses vara Y 'X is considered to be Y' etc. So clearly I wasn't totally serious about not using it at all. But it's just very easy to overuse the passive. There are a lot of constructions that are possible but just aren't very natural.
On the other hand I think learners probably tend to use the impersonal constructions with man (or in speech, de) too little instead, so there should probably be more focus on that.
That said, I'm not going to have a very active role in building the new tree since I am too busy with the Swedish for Russian. It's most likely that someone else will do the actual changes and make the decisions, so this is just my personal opinion.
There's already a bonus skill built about that. But we're awaiting being able to release it.
Hey Guys, I have not read the whole discussion, but I just had an idea for a bonus lesson. What about some troll stories? These things are quite important in scandinavian mythology (aren't they?) and it might be interesting to learn the words. Tusen tack for your work! Keep it up.
Jag vet inte om det tidigare har nämnts, det är för många kommentarer att läsa, men ganska konsekvent uttalar talsyntesen ordet vi som ve. Ett ganska litet men väl så allvarligt fel om folk faktiskt tror att det är så det ska låta. Bra jobbat för övrigt!
I'll stick to English so that others can understand. :)
There's a semi-official topic for reporting errors here: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/7316662
To be honest, I rather doubt that'll lead to anything, since the course moderators can do absolutely nothing to affect the third-party TTS.
I finished my Swedish course not long ago on here and I have been completely bored and at a loss of any sites as thorough as Duolingo. I also haven't made much progress in my Swedish since finish Duolingo because nothing else helps as much as Duolingo has. A 2.0 course would be ideaaaaal.
I love the work you have already done to make the Swedish tree as great as it has been! I'm only around the 23rd-24th skill but I'm seeing great progress in my Swedish skills. Upon seeing this discussion I had an idea for a bonus skill you could possibly do. How about a bonus skill in astrology? or even astronomy? Both of these topics are close to my heart and I'd love to learn more on how to talk about these subjects in English.
I'm sorry to let you down, but I would be surprised to find either of those here. Astrology isn't really part of Swedish culture as a whole, and hence not suitable for the course. Astronomy is a bit too scientific for a beginners course.
However, I encourage you to ask away in the Swedish forums. We would be happy to help you learn words related to your special interests. :)
why not have the bonus skills of vocab/grammar from culture, current events, myth etc?
We don't have a culture skill because we've worked in lots of culture in the course instead.
We don't have a mythology bonus skill because most of it is just names and you wouldn't really learn much from that.
What we do have is one about idioms and proverbs, and one about Christmas.
hmm.. maybe for lingots people can purchase an 'expanded version' of any skill therefore more politics, myth, culture etc-- just more vocab from each category ?
Not compatible with how the course works. The bonus skills are standalone skills on a certain subject. At the moment there are two ones built but for technical reasons not released (this is a support issue for Duolingo, we don't control it.) We will release them as soon as we can. We're open to making another bonus skill but that is very low priority until Tree 2.0 is done.
Hey you great Swedish duo moderators, I'm just curious - do you think the Christmas bonus skill will make it for this Chrismas? :) Just asking since it will be an year soon since "the technical problem" and maybe duo support people need a reminder? (> should I post this as a reminder somewhere else?)
Sorry, might be a bit nit-picky, but why are you saying "another" bonus skill? As far as I know there are no Swedish bonus skills? At least I don't have any in my tree or lingot store (don't really know where those bonus skills can usually be "bought", because Swedish is the only language I'm learning right now).
Two have been prepared but are being held back for technical reasons until Duolingo staff enables bonus skills in the Swedish course.
Yes, what devalanteriel said. I edited my post to fit it in also. Thank you!
ok - does every skill level have the choice of 3 bonus options ? or are all bonus skills low priority ?
No. The course has, AFAIK, the possibility of having 3 bonus skills.
All bonus skills are low priority until Tree 2.0 is done.
With that said, I would appreciate if further discussion in this thread could stick to the topic (Tree 2.0).
Not sure if this is the right spot to post this and whether you can change that at all, and whether this has been posted before, but I have a little comment. For the multiple choice questions, I feel like that it is way to easy to know the right answer when you know your vocabulary because in the wrong answers, there are simply put words that just don't make sense. I feel the course and everyone would gain from it, if that could be changed. For example, for the question "Jag arbetar under perioden..." you could simply exchange under with 'in' or another preposition to make it actually tricky to answer correcly. Otherwise, great job on the course! Thanks for your engagement!
Yeah, we are many, many who dislike that feature - but the course developers can't do anything about it. It's Duolingo substituting words semi-randomly. In some courses, you almost always get the correct translation with an uppercase letter starting the sentence, and then two incorrect sentences that start with lowercase letters.
This was actually already discussed in this thread. Unfortunately, the course contributors cannot do anything about this. The wrong answers in multiple-choice questions are generated automatically randombly by Duolingo and the course contributors have no way of influencing them.
/edit: Well, seems like I was one minute too slow ;)
Immersion är det enda viktiga och/eller nyttiga med Duolingo. Ert arbete med trädet 2.0 är heroisk och ni förtjänar att helgonförklaras men utan "Immersion" blir det bara en mängd klickövningar. Manga Lingots kommer din väg.
As explained in the very post above and numerous times in the forums, it's not up to us to implement immersion.
In addition to Christmas and Idiom skills, I would love the Math skill and the Body Parts/Organs skill where I can learn for example the meaning of: arm, leg, eye, elbow, ankle, stomach, liver, kidney, wrist, and every single part and organ. I thinks there is nothing to remove, just add as many skills as you can, that would be awesome! Thanks :)
Well, there isn't any speech excercises on the app, also there aren't any people (if you know what I mean) and the format is different...
I just want to say thank you for this knowledge, I started to learn more, every important thing your program for beginning learner very useful mean you give me inspiration and motivation to learn more and proud of myself, thank you a lot, I will do the same with my student,,,,, thank you so much
Perhaps a lesson that focuses on the different between att fråga and att be (om) could be good? It could be called "Questions and Requests" or something.
I think I understand when to use one and when to use the other but it is still something that causes me some difficulties, likely because in English you would generally use to ask for asking a question and for phrasing a request.
This is great news that there is to be a tree 2.0! Is there any way to view it's progress like you can with other languages that are 'hatching' or will it just be appear one day or be added as an extension to the original one? Tack!
I'm fairly certain that only course contributors will be able to see the new tree until it's released.
I asked a few months ago if there would be a beta for the new tree and was told that there probably won't be anything like that.
Tack, I think that's what I meant, 'Beta'. I shall just have to wait patiently then
I just wanted to say that if you want or need an "alpha/beta tester" or anything then I would love to help. I could probably spend a couple of hours a day on it. I have a lot of free time at the moment. I already spend several hours a day studying Swedish.
Have you guys (and not guys) thought about improving the lesson notes?
There's a lot of really good content in some of the comments that expands a lot on the notes and I think it would be a good idea to take the best of it and try to condense it and add it to the lesson notes.
EDIT: Another idea is you could split the notes up into beginner (e.g. the current notes) and then have intermediate notes underneath.
People could read them if they wanted to, or skip them entirely, or even go back to it when they are at a slightly more advanced stage.
Am really enjoying this course. Your team has done a fantastic job allowing grammar/structure to come through. Fun and relatively intuitive. Anyway, I've followed the "suggestions" comments and would like to say two things: 1) There are lots of vocabulary-building sources outside of this course: I don't think anyone should expect to accumulate an encyclopedic vocabulary from a Duolingo course alone. And I for one don't need to learn only vocabulary that is useful to me (cf. the "turtle" controversy). 2) But I am wondering this: is it possible to add some sections with short readings, followed by comprehension questions?
We as course creators cannot change anything in the structure of the course (I mean, in the sense of what kind of exercises there are – when we create the new tree version we're able to move skills around and such, but we can't add a new type of exercise). On the other hand, anyone, course contributor or not, could post texts with questions in the discussion area – it wouldn't be interactive or give XP of course, but might be helpful anyway. There's also the workaround to get the immersion feature for courses that don't officially have it, that you might have heard of, here's a link to the latest post about it: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/16401059
Ah. Since Swedish is my first time with Duolingo, I didn't know that other courses didn't allow reading passages with questions. I wonder why such possibilities aren't built into the Duolingo platform... Anyway, sounds like a good project to post in the discussion section -- readings of maybe a paragraph or two followed by comprehension questions. The answers could be multiple choice. Obviously my Swedish is way too weak to attempt this myself. But maybe someone will, sometime... :-)
lessons for look similar(ish) words that are unrelated, examples mot/mat, är/ar, glas/glass, or pork/beef, turtle/actress/actor which don't look alike but my mind insists they do. I have peace in the thought that actors/actresses may be acting like a turtle, and both wear a shell, although please doesn't, and in Swedish is by far the the loveliest sounding word I've heard in any language.
Could you add more countries to the places category, false statements (after the initial lessons on the words), not sure the words are in another category but astronomy stuff could be cool. Not sure if possible but phonetic spelling when you tap on words could be helpful
I would add lessons about telling what happened in the past. I always had difficulties with it.
I have been here for five years => Jag har varit här i fem år. I have been here five years ago => Jag har varit här för fem år sedan.
That is if didn't screw up the translation.
I'd like to see something right at the start on pronounciation. Swedish is the first new language I have studied on Duolingo; I haven't learned the pronounciation elsewhere as I did with French, Russian and German. I get that there are vowels with accents on them, but I was really surprised by the different pronounciations of "k," "sk" etc depending on following vowel. Also why is "de" = "they" pronounced "dom" - another Swedish app I have pronounces it more or less rhyming with "they" in English. Yes Duolingo has spoken recordings, but without some rules to explain what's going on, it's mystifying.
There are some rules for how to pronounce sk and k. However "de" and "dem" are both pronuonced "dom" in some dialects. Same with the words "dig" and "mig" (you and me), they are pronounced "dej" and "mej" and you can actually spell the words like this but it is quite uncomon (they can appear in old swedish books sometimes).
The pronuonciation of the voice in swedish doulingo is quite terrible so don't trust it. I recomend you to litsen to swedish music or movies to learn the pronounciation :).
Actually my wish to learn Swedish came out of watching the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo movies and Wallander TV series in Swedish. I'll have to watch them again now that I got started. Thanks for the tips.
I think pronunciation would be a good thing to have. Just to demistify it a bit, "k" and "sk" pronunciation depend on whether vowels are hard or soft: http://blogs.transparent.com/swedish/swedish-pronunciation-hard-and-soft-vowels/
something on pronunciation of the vowels we don't have in english, like the å, ä, ö and the different way k/sk is depending on vowel sounds maybe?
I"m about halfway down the tree, but I agree that having smaller lessons in each skill would be good. After a while, it looks like there's just multiple verbs, adjectives, and adverbs skills with the other occasional words sprinkled in between. I'd also like a skill on sea creatures such as what the Norwegian course has.
For me at the moment I would like to see stats. I would love to see how many words I have learnt, my weakest word / sentence(s) and a proficiency level.
That would be nice, but those are functionalities that require programming, and hence ones that are impossible for the course content creators to affect.
Edit 4 (in December 2015) said the new tree would be introduced some time in 2016. It's October 2016 now. Is the tree still coming? I'm also about half way through mine right now. If/when it comes out, will I have to start over?
It seems unlikely that we'll make it during 2016. Next year, I suppose. But we have a lack of driven contributors to build the new one (rather than maintain the old one and answer questions in the forums) and that's what's hindering us.
No, you will not have to start over.
Sorry if it has been mentioned somewhere else, CBA to browse through all the comments in here, but since it's not added in the original post I'll ask it anyway: is this feature still a thing (as 2016 is nearing its end) and if so, is there any ETA?
Tack ska ni ha!
Yes, it's still a thing.
No, there's no ETA at all due to lack of contributors to build the new tree.
Jag är ledsen för det, hoppas att allt kommer att ordna sig. Lycka till i alla fall och tack för allt ni har gjort redan!
OK, I keep meaning to post this request/suggestion, but I keep getting sucked into andra diskussioner. Jag har bryllingar som bor i Skåne. Jag lärde mig svenska som tonåring in Östergötland och nu I'm relearning it. Men jag kan inte förstår ett ord av mina skånska bryllingar! Could you please offer a Scanian (new word - skånska) accent that we could listen to as an option?
No, we can't do that. The dialect of Skåne differs a bit from the rest of Sweden, but it should be learnable with time and practice too.
Does it actually differ terribly much? I've heard skånska and there's a distinct accent but I never thought it was terribly different in terms of pronunciation.
As a major dialect group, it's by far the one that can give the most trouble to other native Swedes. But there are large variations within skånska as well, of course, and some are way easier to understand than others.
I agree with the others here that there is no need to have a separate Skåne accent lesson, even if it were feasible (which it wouldn't be because you'd have to get a whole different voice for the TTS). I speak with a resident of en liten by i Skåne and I sometimes have trouble understanding him but that's not his accent so much as my poor Swedish. As it gets better, I have less and less trouble understanding him, even though he is harder to understand than my friends in Uppsala, Linköping etc. There are at least 12 distinct accents in English and we don't have trouble understanding those, do we? As your understanding and speaking gets better, you will pick up accent/dialect things.
electricpenguin - my Mum loves all things Scottish, my name (and my brother's) is Scottish, and I didn't have much difficulty understanding that video. But non-native English speakers would struggle. In fact I know a Finnish girl who speaks excellent English, and she said she'd been watching Outlander, which I'm guessing you ken, and I asked her if she watched with subtitles or just understood it, and even she (with her excellent English) said "No, the accent is too strong. I need the Finnish subtitles." - but for my wife and I (Australians) it wasn't a problem at all.
The same would go for something like 'The Wire' which is mostly in street-gangster dialect. No problem for an English native, but would take a lot of getting used to for a non-native. But still, it's doable.
Hi, Yes, even for me as a native Swedish speaker it can be hard to understand (some) people from the countryside in the region Skåne :-)
(Skåne = South Sweden) If you would like to experiment and listen to Skånsk accent then you have an option to select "Swedish (Scanian)" at the Acapela TTS -demo:
This voice "Mia" sounds like it might be Malmö-dialect, nothing extreme and should be "easy" to understand. BTW, at this page you can also test out the child-voices Filip and Freja, they are pretty good! ( You find them in the standard "Swedish" language selection) This TTS also have a lot of options to make fine adjustments, also special sounds and so on, probably the best tts I have tested. You can also find a language "Swedish (Gothenburg) with a male voice "Kal" that have a typical (light) accent from the west coast city Göteborg. And there is a male voice that have a nice Finland-accent to. :-)
"We're probably looking at a few months at least, but we should be done somewhere during 2016."
It is now almost 2017. What is the status of Swedish tree 2.0? I am excited to check it out :).
It's being developed but there's been a general lack of time plus some technical difficulties, so development hasn't gone quite as smoothly as planned. But it's on the map! :)
Hooray! I will look forward to Swedish Tree 2.0 in 2017. I am re-doing the existing Swedish tree over and over again, so it will be fun to have new material.
I just passed the 2nd checkpoint in my swedish course and wanted to test my progress. I did an extended progress quiz from the lingot store and was suprised to get words and verb tenses i haven't learned yet. Is there a point in doing those before I finish the course ? In addition it would be nice to get a summary at the end to see my mistakes instead of just a score.
This is largely outside of the scope of the course content, since we can't affect anything development-level, but the reason is that the quiz is supposed to test your knowledge of the entire course. It tests how much progress you've made, not the knowledge retention of your progress.
Thank you for your reply and my apologies, I did not know where to post this, is there a thread where i can ask to implement a summary at the end of the test to see my mistakes ?
I'd love to direct you to one but I honestly have as little idea as you do.
I'm new to DL and haven't got too far with Swedish yet so this may already have been said:
Maybe split some of the adverbs sections down into smaller chunks? Adversb have been great for expanding the range of what I can say so hope you keep them, but confronting allof them at once was a bit of an info overload! :)
Definitely agree not to do a 'culture' topic- that would be waaaay to big and it's pretty impossible to define what each country's definitive 'culture' is.
Perhaps something that's useful for holidays to Sweden- like hotel dialogues? Sorry if this is a bit phrasebook-y but might be useful.
I think that another good thing that you guys could do is interweave the previous lessons in new contexts in skills later on in the tree. I know this is done already but having it done even more will make it that much easier to recall words and see them in many different contexts. I think that this would add a lot of depth to the new tree.
Would it be too late to ask for an optional skill that's just speaking-oriented (or impossible, for that matter), as I would like to practice pronunciation, but don't get a lot of that kind of practice when I go to strengthen skills? (By optional, I mean where people can pay 30 lingots (or however much it may cost) to obtain the skill, so it's not necessary to do it to complete the tree.) If it isn't do-able, that's okay.
Interesting idea, but unfortunately a request that is way out of our abilities, since we cannot affect anything code-based.
Would be nice if Duolingo gave a little more control to the devs. Although considering they're removing features instead of adding them, I wouldn't hold my breath. :P
Really I feel like this: As long as the Duolingo programmers are not changing errors like "DOM" for example, as also others, you should be noticed somewhere how to pronounce the words. Did you mayhaps do this in the explinatory texts for the lectures? Is there a tableau of hard to pronounce Swedish-tree words? E.g. De, sju etc. Also I would like a lectures with longer sentences *** As Bonus Skills maybe hobbies you have in sweden
Thanks for listening. I am referring to the status quo of "DOM" as explained in the Faq, if understood correctly by me. The issue is that you are marked wrong for writing dom in a hearing exercise.
As far as I know, dom is a colloquial, and hence not 'proper' way of writing de, which is why you would get marked wrong for it.
Colloquial Swedish is still correct Swedish. It's a matter of style and not of correctness.
Ah ok, but then it might not be the most important thing on the to do list. Still, it's a point. Back to another question: Is there a tableau of hard to pronounce Swedish-tree words? E.g. De, sju etc.
Fair enough, you'd know far better than I would. But that leaves the question - why does he get marked down for saying "dom"?
I admire Duolingo; it is an excellent self-paced learning design. I would love a Swedish>English dictionary at the site (or even a link to a good one elsewhere?). Not certain if this is what you mean by 'word tab' or something similar but I sometimes need help in remembering the correct Swedish word. A search field within the dictionary would be helpful also. Kudos to the ISD team; great instructional design.
I finished my tree! So now you can bring on the Astrid Lindgren bonus skills ;)
I tried to search the comments before saying anything, so I appologize if this has been said before.
I would love it if verbs were further separated. My biggest struggle with verbs is that, like, 90% of the lessons on verbs are clustered together in the same area. It'd be nice to spread that out a bit so I don't learn about past, future, imperative, continuous, etc all at the same time.
I have been finding the Swedish course wonderful. Any extensions to the vocabulary and lengthening of phrases would be most welcome. News of a Tree 2 is great. 1. Is there a way in which sentences within a lesson could be coordinated so that a more conversational aspect could be achieved. When speaking the language dialogue is essential? The content and range of your programme is excellent but more often than not each phrase stands alone, although in helpful relation to a subject area or grammar. 2. Once the Tree has been completed is it possible to continue to be reminded of Stale items as one continues to revise and reinforce learning? 3. Where has the quiz aspect of your programme gone from your Lingot store, for I had found it most helpful in measuring my progress?
hi. i love the course and study 10-30 minutes daily. my only criticism is -when i just want to strengthen existing skills, you keep throwing the same phrases at me over and over and over...stuff i learned way early, and i become bored and frustrated. When i learn a new skill level (ie present tense verbs, questions, etc) i'd like it if you incorporated those new learnings into the strengthening skills button. Instead, i'm still talking about en sköldpadda and en kyckling. Thanks!
I remember mine doing that initially as well. The Strengthen skills button will eventually move on from those early lessons and only occasionally revisit them. At this point, it throws vocabulary at me occasionally that wasn't in any of the lessons and usually some more complex sentences.
Thank you so much for the wonderful lessons! I am studying for a little over a month and it's wonderful!
Still there is one little thing... Since the 25th of December when I move the mouse's cursor on top of a word, I no longer hear the word's pronunciation. It wasn't like that before Christmas.. I was hoping it was a minor bug and submitted a report only to see that until today the situation hasn't changed. I surely hope that it does, because hearing the way a word is pronounced really helps me understand the language better. But enough about that..
Tack så mycket! Vi ses i nästa DuoLingo lektion!
One idea that is sure to be controversial: Social Media bonus skill. Knowing how other cultures communicate on social media is very useful, including common acronyms and memetic conventions. I've spent a lot of time on foreign forums and chat groups, and few other things make you suddenly feel like you know absolutely nothing at all. :)
I love the Swedish course for the laptop but the course on I Phone has too many mistakes . It is frustrating to have your correct answer marked as wrong even though it is the same answer that is given as correct. Also as an example. " He looks in his wallet" is marked wrong with the right answer being "He looks into his wallet" . It is too difficult to make progress unless you pay for "health"