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  5. "У мальчика нет карандаша."

"У мальчика нет карандаша."

Translation:The boy does not have a pencil.

November 9, 2015

91 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/craaash80

I was curios about "карандаша"'s origins... Some further digging didn't let me disappointed.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B4%D0%B0%D1%88#Etymology_2


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PatrickJam17

So what's the link to the pen and pencil company "Caran D'ache" http://www.carandache.com/en/ ? I'd always assumed it was named after this...?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/craaash80

From Wikipedia:

"In 1924, Arnold Schweitzer named his new company after Caran d'Ache, the nickname of the French satiric political cartoonist Emmanuel Poiré (who in turn took his name from карандаш (karandash), the Russian word for pencil)"

:)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PatrickJam17

Very interesting, thanks. The opposite to what I thought! Either way, can't see my self ever forgetting this word now :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/craaash80

That's why I'm fond of etymology in general :)))


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnUnicorn

I'm surprised--I would've expected it to have the same root as "crayon."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/craaash80

I heard a turkish nuance and my gut was right :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_Maria_B._

AnUnicorn, is that the unicorn from the book "Pheobe and Her Unicorn"?

.... Omg, it is! That's awesome!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnUnicorn

Indeed it is! I've found it to be a great source of unicorns making silly faces. :D


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DarioCarer

Nor a mom. Nor milk. Nothing. He has nothing.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/anothernobody

Why do you suppose my use of "the pencil" was wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/A_User

What was your full sentence? Sometimes there's a small mistake somewhere in the rest of the sentence but Duolingo marks the wrong word...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/anothernobody

My full sentence was: "The boy does not have the pencil", and "the" was marked wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/A_User

Bizarre. I'd report it next time you get it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IamJustintime

I put, "the" just now and marked me incorrect too, nearly a year later. I reported it again.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeffrey855877

Still wrong 12 months later 3 May 2018. Reported.

"the boy does not have the pencil" not accepted - I copied/pasted my answer here, so there's no copy-error.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RRL210

I think that this should be incorrect, because "the pencil" implies that he may have another pencil. They want you to say he doesn't have a pencil.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Psynderis

For the genitive, when do you use the different endings -а, -ы, and -и?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/marti_MG

DUOLINGO TIPS:

Genitive Case - 1 In Russian “I have” is expressed by «У меня (есть)» structure. The owner is in the Genitive case.

Genitive
"The of-case". It is one of the most universal cases. How do you make the forms? Here is the regular pattern:

ENDING Genitive sg. soft stem
-a/-я мама мамы земля--->земли
zero-ending masculine and -о/-е neutral сок / молоко сока / молока конь ----> коня
feminine мышь мыши

A zero ending means that the word ends in a consonant or a soft sign (which is just a way to show the final consonant is "soft"). In the Nominative singular, a Russian word can only have the following endings: а, я, о, е, ё or nothing ("zero ending").

Genitive of Negation
If you use «нет» to say that there is "no" something or you do not have it, the object is always in Genitive:

У меня́ есть я́блоко → У меня́ нет я́блока

Здесь есть рюкза́к → Здесь нет рюкзака́.

Major uses
"of" (possession): яблоко мамы = mom's apple
"of" (amount): чашка чая, много чая = a cup of tea, a lot of tea
A huge number of prepositions require this case. Yes, «у меня есть», «У неё есть» only use «меня» and «неё» because «у» wants Genitive.

For он, она and оно Genitive doubles as a non-changing possessive "his", "her", "their": его, её, их. initial «н» is used for him/her/them with the majority of prepositions (doesn't affect possessives)

Indeclinable nouns
A little side note: some nouns of foreign origin are indeclinable. It means that all their forms are the same. Foreign nouns that end in о/е become like that (кофе, метро, радио, резюме), as well as all nouns that do not fit into Russian declension patterns (see above).

This includes female names that end in anything other than А or Я. A few -ь-ending names are an exception (Любовь and Biblical names like Юдифь).

So, all of the following names are automatically indeclinable: Маргарет, Мэри, Элли, Дженни, Рэйчел, Натали, Энн, Ким, Тесс, Жасмин.

I am away
Russian also uses the Genitive to state that someone is "away", "not there": Мамы сейчас нет. In English such use would correspond to "There is no mom at the moment", or even "There is no me now". We are not hard on that particular construction in the course, but it is important to know it all the same.

Added bonus: when a verb directly acts on a noun, the noun is called a direct object and is in Accusative. In Russian, only -а/-я nouns have a unique form for it. Others just reuse the Genitive or don't change anything (Nominative)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/fredrikov

So карандаша has the stress on the last syllable?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pinogun

Obviously yes, but why?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hamshishdoeyti

Why is it only "карандаша" with an "a" when "нет" is used?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theron126

Russian nouns change case depending on how they are used in a sentence. "Нет" requires the word to be in genitive case, so "карандаш" becomes "карандаша".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Daku_

Why is wrong: A boy doesn't have a pencil?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DannySamar

How do you know whether it's pencils, or pencil?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pilbsy

Карандашей is pencils in the genitive case.

Source: http://www.alphadictionary.com/rusgrammar/genplur.html (#3, stem ends on hush (Ш))


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_Maria_B._

Looking at the context and seeing if any other words are genitive also helps.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Robert_Andersson

How do you say pen in Russian?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Robert_Andersson

Doesn't that also mean arm?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theron126

Arm/hand is рука. Though I think ручка can be used as a diminutive of рука, I'm fairly certain I've heard that used.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Robert_Andersson

Yes, my mother says it all the time. Thank you for responding! Благодарю вас! Merci bеaucoup! ☺


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FranciskoR4

For example "Can you take ручку in your little ручку?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Robert_Andersson

What? The word is ручка. Why is the accusative for used twice?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FranciskoR4

because it is rule. the sentence in the accusative case. take a pen in your hand.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Robert_Andersson

@Francisko Rodriguez So, then one word in a sentence is accusative, every word is?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FranciskoR4

In the Russian language incline (change in cases) nouns, adjectives, numerals and pronouns. In the modern Russian language only inflectional type in which the accusative is not identical to any other and has a special shape — declension nouns in -a, -я in the singular (рука —руку). subsidiary questions for accusative case are - Кого? Что?(Whom? what?)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SonerAbay

Why is "The boy doesn't have any pencils" not accepted?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alexmalaho

I think because it's plural. When you say 'any pencils' it literally means 'никаких карандашей'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SonerAbay

I agree but it was showing "pencils" when I hover on "карандаша"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theron126

That's just wrong, карандаша is never a plural form.

Although after два, три, четыре genitive singular is used so you do say четыре карандаша for "four pencils".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SonerAbay

Thank you master :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EMarieNYC

Yes, someone give the kid a pencil!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hannaBanana5094

the attendant to provide him with one is the intention of statement :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WayneWerne

this had the option to be "the boy does not have his pencil" - would that also have been correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RRL210

You changed the sentence to make the pencil "his". You'd have to add "his" in the Russian sentence too. It doesn't just mean "his" automatically. So far it's "the".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Anna309668

Why is "The boy doesn't have a pencil" incorrect? I just connected 'does not' after all.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marie687079

Does anyone else find it strange that one word in Russian can mean an entire phrase, while others only mean one word?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sardinius

I wrote "the" pencil instead of "a" pencil and the answer was flagged wrong. How can one tell the difference?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sardinius

The pencil is correct, why it keeps flagging it wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RRL210

It's really not correct. Saying he doesn't have THE pencil, is saying that he may have another pencil. The Russian sentece is saying that he doesn't have a pencil. 'The' and 'A', although similar, do change the meaning of the sentence, altogether.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Eugene840893

This is absolutely inconsistent and should be fixed. It does not accept "A boy has no pencil" and "A boy does not have a pencil". It insists it must be "The boy does not have a pencil". There is no context enforcing "The" and it must accept negation of a noun (not only negation of a verb) - because it's grammatically correct and it accepts it in other exercises.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pablopublico

каранда́ш (karandáš) [kərɐnˈdaʂ] m inan (genitive карандаша́, nominative plural карандаши́, genitive plural карандаше́й) "pencil" In Russian from the 16–17th centuries. Borrowing from a Turkic language. Compare Turkish karataş (“black slate”), composed of kara (“black”) + taş (“stone”), Tatar кара таш (qara taş, “graphite, black lead”). The origin of epenthetic -н- (-n-) is unclear. Perhaps it was added in colloquial Russian speech to ease the pronunciation. Compare каланча́ (kalančá) for the same epenthesis. Wiktionary


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lenfantdusiecle

well, that's a funny word for pencil..


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alexmalaho

у+genitive case for possession=Subject+has


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EmmaRoshan

This section has me checking the forum after every question lol


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Christophe345935

I always dont know wheteher to put an article before a noun. It is sometimes bad, even though it is right! I demand it to be changed! It just takes my hearts and in this way it just looks as a propaganda to buy premium!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Byron_333

У Джона Уика есть карандаш!!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mastersword83

How does one tell the difference between when there's a ь and when there isn't?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pilbsy

By ear? Ь indicates palatization of the previous letter. -In other words, if it sounds like a consonant is being pronounced with a tongue abnormally close to the palate, then Ь or a softening vowel probably follows. Otherwise, you just have to remember where it is.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnUnicorn

I still can't get the hang of what that sounds like, and I can't hear a difference through the TTS program pronunciation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Barnyard_Billy

Hearing the differences between hard and soft consonants takes awhile even with clear pronunciation. I agree the program doesn't have the best pronunciation. Here is a good video explaining Russian hard/soft consonants https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roevsN1zBl4


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/serkandeniiz

the boy has not got a pencil.- this must be true also...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarekBari

"The boy does not have pencil" vs. "The boy does not have a pencil" Can somebody please explain me simply, why does it make such huge difference?Seems like i forgot the basics. Thanks


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theron126

In English when you're talking about an object that can be counted - one pencil, two pencils, three pencils, and so forth - you need an article "a pencil". "The pencil" if you're talking about some specific pencil rather than just any pencil.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarekBari

Thanks a lot both of you. I totally forgot about this rule :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dave168907

Pencil is a count noun. You say one pencil, two pencils, etc. So, you must say "a pencil" in such a sentence. If it were "paint" instead of "pencil" you would say "the boy does not have paint" because you do not count paint.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PaulsEmpire

Why is the ending not ы?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/A_User

The ending of which word?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AliReza846430

So is the positive form : У мальчика карандаша correct? meaning the boy has a pencil


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alexmalaho

Nope:) У мальчика карандаш.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jenda48

"A boy does not have a pencil" why itnis wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ehekaton

Why is it wrong to say "The child has no pencil"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Resul-

the child has no pen ? why not ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DeitoLingu

Why is it карандаша and not карандаш?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/StefanoFer961741

The boy does not have ANY pencil should be right as well


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alexmalaho

It means никакого карандаша.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Andres756730

Mnemotecn for those knowing Spanish:Мальчика sounds like "mal chica"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alan702155

the boy has no a pencil ? Why not ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theron126

Because "no" takes the place of an article.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aspencer

Conceptually, it might also be just as correct to say the boy doesn't have any pencils, especially if the expectation is that the pencils would normally be a set or plural.

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