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"There are guests in the palace."

Translation:Во дворце гости.

November 9, 2015

75 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DonCarlote

Why is it во дворце not в дворце? Thanks!


[deactivated user]

    Во is used instead of в before certain consonant clusters. The same pairs exist for к/ко, с/со.

    «Во» (also «со», «ко») is required before some words (во всём 'in all, in everything', во мне 'in me', со мной 'with me', во сне 'in [a] dream'); before others it's optional.

    Historically, «о» appeared if the next syllable had a vowel that got deleted (for example, «со мной» originally had a short vowel between м and н), but in modern Russian in is used even when the consonant cluster never had a vowel.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/H.Yang

    Is there anyway to know which clusters in particular?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sergius672054

    A read of the history of the language, here might enlighten things a bit. Short version. There used to be other letters in the russian alphabet. Look at 'Church Slvonic' to see an earlier version of the language. Letters got dropped throught history. But one letter in particular represented the cross over the world. After 1917 the soviets were trying to wipe religion out of society, so they removed that letter from the alphabet.
    This is where the missing letters happen. The soviets may have a different slant to it, but that's what basically happened. (For transparency I'll add, I'm an English speaking Russian Orthodox Monk tired of only being able to read and chant the church slavonic. So im learning modern Russian.)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HillaBecher

    Which letter was it?


    [deactivated user]

      There's no real rule. Actually, there's quite some variation, and «в дворце́» should also be acceptable.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ann55075

      No it should not. Nobody says so. It sounds like "A Alphabet" :)


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mortificator

      A quick Google search showed many many web sites where the phrase occurs, some of which look quite "respectable,"

      Грамотные люди так не говорят. :) Но они всегда в меньшинстве.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EdvntL

      Please do not mislead learners with incorrect information. It may sound awful to your ears, but it's not true that "nobody" says «в дворце́». A quick Google search showed many many web sites where the phrase occurs, some of which look quite "respectable," i.e. where you would expect a decent level of Russian. https://spb.kassir.ru/teatry/dvorets-beloselskih-belozerskih


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Morgan1039

      nope, was incorrect for me


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AmosOnn

      Seems similar to the English a/an.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SallySomers

      In English, use 'an' before words starting with a vowel SOUND (long or short) (a, e, i, o, u), and use 'a' before words starting with a consonant SOUND. eg. 'an umbrella', but a university (yoo-niversity); 'a house', but 'an honourable person' (on-erable person).


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JamesCorbe20

      Thank you for shedding light on the issue


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Peatsickle

      The "вдв" together would create an undesirable consonant cluster, so Russian throws the "о" in as a filler. Other examples include (but are by no means limited to) "во Франции" (in France) and "во вторник" (on Tuesday).


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jangovaert

      госты во дворце - what's the difference?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kokoro_kaiju

      Common Russian word order with sentences describing the location of something is usually structured as [Preposition] (the) [Place], there is (a) [Noun]. An example is in the sentence, На столе мяч. (Literally: "On (the) table (a) ball". "Есть" (there is) is usually left out unless it's absolutely necessary to describe that the object exists.

      When you say Госты во дворце, it may sound unnatural to a Russian speaker unless you are asking if the guests are in the palace. I'm not sure, but I believe it is also to emphasize the fact that the guests are in the palace (and not somewhere else).


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IbMs14

      Во дворце гости = гости во дворце!!!


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IbMs14

      В русском языке Да


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mortificator

      Нет. :) И Вы зря упорствуете. Чем быстрее поймёте разницу, тем легче будет с языком.

      There are guests in the palace.

      The guests are (there) in the palace.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IbMs14

      Объясните, пожалуйста, разницу. И если можно, то на русском, Ваш прежний комментарий мне непонятен.

      В данном уроке в некоторых предложениях принимается и тот и другой вариант (с перестановкой слов), но вот почему здесь есть разница не ясно


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ann55075

      Во дворце гости = there are guests in the palace - это обсуждение того, что сейчас во дворце происходит. Например: во дворце гости/чума/наводнение/генеральная инспекция - так что хрен вас кто туда сейчас пустит.

      Гости во дворце = the guests are in the palace - это обсуждение вопроса где сейчас гости. Например: куда твои гости запропастились? Гости (сейчас) во дворце/в соборе/в музее/в лесу, достопримечательности осматривают.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mortificator

      У носителей русского языка отсутствует чувствительность к артиклям. Им почему-то кажется, что фразы "Гости во дворце" и "Во дворце гости" абсолютно идентичны. А это не так - порядок слов имеет значение.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/anothernobody

      Why do е and ц switch places? Why not just add an extra "е" to make "двореце"?


      [deactivated user]

        «Е» in «дворец» is a fill vowel. It disappears once an ending is added.

        Of course, it would be simpler if we could just add an ending. But language doesn't work like this. It's related to the language history.

        Fill vowels appeared when extra-short vowels Ь and Ъ disappeared. (Modern Russian uses Ь and Ъ for different purposes now, but in the past they used to signify extra-short e and o.) They disappeared everywhere, except one case: when they were followed by another extra-short vowel.

        So, дворьць became дворец because the last Ь disappeared, and this forced the previous Ь to remain. But in «дворьцѣ», on the other hand, because it wasn't followed by a disappeared vowels.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ezequiel724903

        I understood nothing... except that I have to type дворце


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JustLearnen

        I dont remember learning what "Bo" was.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ann55075

        It is В - but it is inconvenient to say в дворце - so we add a vowel making it ВО, like in english one can add a consonant to A making it AN - an englishman, an owl. And here we will have в и во, с и со, etc


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/emononen

        "гости - в дворце" would this be ok?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vronick

        I think it should be. There is no set word order requirements in Russian in my experience. I reported that that should also be an accepted answer.


        [deactivated user]

          I believe it shouldn't: «Гости во дворце» corresponds to "The guests are in the palace" (unless you emphasise гости with intonation, and create a sentence with emphatic inverted word order; but Duolingo doesn't accept inverted word order).


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vronick

          I think your analysis is overly formulaic. There are no hard and fast rules as to word order in Russian, that is the benefit of declination or nouns and conjugation of verbs. More importantly, later on in this very lesson there was an answer that said another accepted solution was with the object/subject first and the location second. If I said this to a Russian they would understand. The difference between "The guests are in the palace" and "There are guests in the palace" would depend on context, not on the placement of гости within the sentence.


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pompey15

          Вы все правильно понимаете )) В данном случае, порядок слов не играет значения!


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FelixGV1

          Why is "На дворце гости" refused? What is the nuance between "На" and "Во"?


          [deactivated user]

            «На дворце» would mean 'on the palace'. This could only work if the guests are on the palace's roof.


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FelixGV1

            Ah I see! Thanks a lot (: !


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dinnernugget

            Shouldn't "Есть гости во дворце" also be accepted?


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lassi492061

            I also wonder when we should use есть and when not. I have several times got wrong when есть has been lacking in my sentence. Again, when I would like to add this word, this option does not exist in Duolingo.


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ann55075

            The difference between во дворце гости и во дворце ЕСТЬ гости is like the difference between "I understand Russian" and "I DO understand Russian" You can use DO here, bit it chanes the meaning, you see? The same story with Russian ЕСТЬ :)


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ia9L4

            Странно


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ffPS4

            In russian doesn't matter how to use "гости во дворце" or "во дворце гости" why not accept?


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/yasmine_y

            The position of the words slightly changes the shades of meaning of the sentence. Usually the "focus" of the sentence in Russian is the last word: "гости во дворце" would be more like "The guests are in the palace".


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/QurtQurt

            Гости находятся в этом дворце. - This should be accepted.


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zirkul
            Mod
            • 1936

            Not really. Your sentence answers a different question: where are the guests, not who's in the palace. Your sentence corresponds to "The guests are in the palace"


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fer820262

            It shouldn't be В гости дворца instead of В дворце гости?


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nidhoeggr

            My native russian speaking girlfriend says "Гости во дворце" and "Во дворце гости" are identical.


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ann55075

            Actually they are not (i am a native russian speaker too)

            • Where are the guests? - The guests are in the palace = Гости во дворце
            • What's going on in the palace? - There are guests in the palace = Во дворце гости.

            It also depends on the intonation though:)


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/eduardohvb

            Thanks a lot. Now i understand the difference. :)


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mortificator

            Гости во дворце. - The guests are in the palace.

            Во дворце гости. - Guests are in the palace. / There are guests in the palace.


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Maria481228

            Hi! Again I suggest you to insert new info in the TIPS, so we know what's coming up in the lesson. Until now it has always been "в", suddenly a sentence with "во"...do you really think it's pedagogical? Thanks! All the best! :)


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sirtwitchyi

            Would там be appropriate to use in this sentence and if so, where?


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sugarplum.fairy

            I am just guessing here, as I am only learning Russian :) but as a person who speaks another slavic language, to use там instead of there in "there is/are" would be wrong, as там literally means there, location wise (as an answer to where => где -> там). I guess you could say там во дворце гости, meaning there are guests there in the palace. Anyway, this is all just guess work :) Anyone else any thoughts on this?


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/an_alias

            A bit late to the party and also only learning Russian (with no slavic background), I think you're right sugarplum.fairy.

            "There" in English has many varieties (adverb, noun, pronoun, interjection). My understanding is that там is an adverb.

            In this sentence, I believe "there" is actually used as a pronoun with a side of requiring "to be". I think it's the "to be" part that makes там inappropriate here.

            It seems like if there's a "to be" in English you skip that in the Russian present tense. So I don't think a "there is" even factors in here in Russian. "In the palace are guests". So, no там.

            I don't think, I could be wrong.


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hakaboy8

            Is дворец irregular in terms of changing into the prepositional case, seeing that the logical way of doing it would be двореце instead of дворце?


            [deactivated user]

              Е is a fill vowel, it disappears in most cases.

              You could say it's irregular, but you'll see many more words where final О and Е disappear. Unfortunately, there's no way to know if a word has a fill vowel or a 'full' vowel (e.g. дворе́ц looks same as кузне́ц 'blacksmith', but genitive forms are дворца́ and кузница́), so you'd have to rely on some guesswork.

              That's why many dictionaries (including those aimed at the native speakers) list genitive forms along with nominative.


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RogerRivero0

              What case is this? Why гостиi? I thought that 'being' verbs were instrumental.


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/yasmine_y

              Гости is the nominative plural for гость. "The guests" are the subject of the sentence.


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VorpalBunny

              why is it гости and not госты?


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alexander285995

              гость ends in ь which becomes и in plural.

              Like кровать => кровати


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BigbyWolff

              Во дворце / гости. In palace / guest.


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/somelauw

              The palace is getting a divorce (дворце)


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Massimo_Asteriti

              I wrote "Во дворце есть гости" and it was accepted; does "есть" make a difference here, and is it even correct?


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BruiserDen

              гости во дворце should be accepted, it is correct


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ia9L4

              В чистом виде все едино. А вот в контексте (которого нет)- разница существенная. Так что в программе ошибка.


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ValentinSe14370

              What does it mean Bo?


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/yasmine_y

              It's a preposition, it means "in, inside". It's more common to find it as "в".


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Isaac444706

              Perhaps i understood the difference between "B" and "BO": B = IN, BO = INSIDE.


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wunderndwanderer

              I don't think so. See the explanation above - the first answer to the first question.

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