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  5. "Да, Иван Иванович?"

"Да, Иван Иванович?"

Translation:Yes, Ivan Ivanovich?

November 11, 2015

71 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zhenya_Melamud

that question in russian language basically can mean two things: 1. Are you agree with me, Ivan Ivanovich? 2. I'm listening to you, Ivan Ivanovich - usually for phone calls

So 'Yes, Ivan Ivanovich' is not the correct translation anyway.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/johnnycury

Actually, I think "Yes, Ivan?" can be understood as "Do you agree, Ivan?". It's just a matter of context.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/northernguy

This Duo example is intended to show that no matter how short the sentence, no matter what it means, if you include the person's name in the sentence and you want to be polite you add the patronymic form to the name. If you don't feel the need or have the desire to be polite then you don't add the patronymic. Choosing to add or not add the patronymic is your choice. It is not dictated by any thing in the sentence.

Conjecture about what context, meaning or style is intended by this sentence is irrelevant. The speaker/writer is saying ....yes. That is all there is to it. He then adds someone's name to it. No more, no less.


[deactivated user]

    So would they also add the patronymic if they're annoyed, like we use someone's full name? "Samantha Abigail Milliner, GET DOWN HERE THIS INSTANT!" Could this sentence be interpreted as someone snapping at Ivan? I know the meaning is irrelevant, but I was interested in going further. Thank you for your helpful comment!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/statenyoung

    What is Ivanovich here? I don't understand what a "patronymic" is at all.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/burasto

    Russian names are composed of a first name + patronymic + last name. The patronymic is a name that indicates the name of your father. For example, if Viktor's father is called Boris, Viktor patronymic would be Borisovich ("son of Boris"), if Viktor has a sister, her patronymic would be Borisovna ("daughter of Boris").


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FaizalZahid

    Like Hebrew's "ben" or "bat" and Arabic's "bin" or "bint", right?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RawanSays

    yes to both! though in both arabic and hebrew it's not very common to use in everyday coversation. (in old arabic, it was way more common)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Harsh001

    Thank you.. My confusion is cleared now


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/J.C.Fink

    It is my understanding that there are no surnames as such in modern Iceland, only patronymics (or sometimes matronymics). Men add the suffix -son to their father's name, women add -dóttir. The telephone directory alphabetizes by first names.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ryanobt

    That's cool! So, does the Patronymic always of the father? Or can you do it of the mother as well?

    One more. When you say, First Name + Patronymic + Last Name; My dad's last name is "Tso" (Ts-o or So). ...my mom's last name is Bowie (Boh-wee) So would mine be Ryan Tsovich Bowie?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/keinemeinung

    @Ryanobt - The Patronymic is derived from the father's first (given) name, hence the root "Patr" (like Pater; Father).

    It is not a middle name like we have in many Western countries, it's determined automatically by the father's first name. And then the family name is also based on the father's last name (they are rather traditionalist there, it would be very uncommon for the woman's last name to become a family's name at marriage).


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SnubbulLilah

    that is cool that you know that


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JayMilkshake

    English used to have it with 'son', but I think the surnames stagnated at some point.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/daddylongleggs

    Jon Johnson, son of John


    [deactivated user]

      And -dohter, for women. So Eadygth Eadweardsdohter (Edith Edwardsdaughter in Modern English) appeared as well. The rule still applies in Eastern Slavic nations and cultures.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/burasto

      Do russians usually call each other by their first name + patronymic instead of their first name + last name? Is it common to call your close friends by their patronymic instead of their first name?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/arthur0703

      Russians use the both variants. You can call somebody (not your relative nor a friend) Иван Иванович or Иван + last name. Just, when you use the first variant, you sound better and more beautiful.

      There are actually some special rules. If you use only the patronymic (to a very close friend, in an ironic way. But note, now young people don't use this way, that is okay only for the adult generation), you should use a short variant (yeah, the short variant of the patronymic, a very colloqial variant): for example: Иван Иванович! - Иваныч! (imagine, that Иваныч is your close friend, your buddy) Владимир Васильевич! - Василич!

      But nonetheless, i am repeating, it is not common nowadays.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/burasto

      Thank you, that explains a lot! I actually had seen that variant when reading about a russian musician. His patronymic is Михайлович, but he's nicknamed «Михалыч» by other team members and fans. Thank you very much for your explanation!


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kdammers

      As an older American, should i use my patronym in Russia, Belarus, Ukraine or Kazakhstan?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/arthur0703

      I don't know anything about Kazakhstan, but in Russia, Ukraine and Belarus patronymics are used widely.

      During the soviet time, in Kazakhstan patronymics were used widely as well -- maybe even now


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kdammers

      Thank you, but did you understand my question? I mean, should I use MY patronym?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/arthur0703

      Yeah, I suppose I didn't understand your question and I hesitated to ask again.

      If your father's name isn't Russian (for example, John, George, Ben or Etan), you shouldn't use your patronymic, because patronymics are formed only from names used for Russian children and only for Russian children. So, no "Джонович/Джорджович/Бенович/Итанович" can be formed. (Actually, they can be formed and used but only for jokes or ironical phrases -- or only if you want to become a real Russian guy)

      So, conclusion: if you come to one of the countries where Russian is spoken, there is no need for you to use a patronymic. You can just name your first name and it will be totally okay -- sometimes now even older people don't name their patronymic in some informal situations.

      Patronymics are used by adults (or by children when they address to an adult) in formal conversations. But foreign people don't use their patronymics in Russia because they always sound funny.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BillEverett

      As an older American, where I first worked in Moscow, the name on my пропуск was Эверетт Иван Иванович. I have have a daughter and a son with the respective patronymics Уильямовна and Уильямович.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kundoo

      In modern Russia we don't add patronymics to people who don't have them.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BillEverett

      This was also true in the 19th century Russian empire. People of some nationalities did not use patronymics. Some of such people had two names (as is usual for Americans today). The notation "of two names" was not rare in acts officially registering a birth, marriage, or death. In some cases with a patronymic given in a birth act in which the father had two names, one of the names was used to form the patronymic. In other cases, both names were used to form one patronymic. The instances of patronymics being given was rare in the records I have seen, and I don't have enough cases to guess at the rules, if any.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Roman_Gavrilov

      President of Kazakhstan – Нұрсұлтан Әбішұлы Назарбаев (Нурсултан Абишевич Назарбаев)


      [deactivated user]

        Interesting. Too bad Astana now bears the name of that man...


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Spirus123

        No,in case you are of the same age and don't work in the same company. To call your counterpart someone like Petrovich,you have to drink a ton of vodka with him . A cubic 1.05 m,to be more accurate)))


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/keinemeinung

        In addition to the other great answers here, it's also the polite and formal way of addressing a superior (instructors, doctors, professors, etc.). They don't tend to do the whole "Mr." and "Mrs." thing over there.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/poodamoff

        Interesting - just looked up the name Ivan and I see it's a variant of Greek Ioannes, English "John"... So Иван Иванович is basically John Johnson? :)


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Chucklenuts7

        Can we get Владимир Владимирович?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mike2813

        I remember watching a CNN clip of Yeltsin and Gorbachev arguing, it was either in the Duma or some other body that required rules of order, and you caught a moment of the back and forth, I couldn't make anything out at the time except that they kept interrupting each other, breaking with patronymics "Boris Nicholayevich" and "Mikhail Sergeyevich" in rapid-fire fashion, shortening them to almost three-syllable words, "miKHAILserGEyich! miKHAILserGEyich!" "baREESniKLAIyich, baREESniKLAIyich"


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alexander187906

        I'm Russian native speaker. I don't speak English very well yet. But Russian is my native language. So I can tell you exactly what I'm hearing here. Precisely hear. This is definitely not an interrogative sentence. This is an affirmative sentence. "Да, Иван Иванович."

        Option 1. For example, a person was asked if Ivan Ivanovich is her (or his) boss or friend or business partner or someone else. This implies that it could be someone else who is also known to the parties of the conversation. But it turned out that the questioner guessed right. And this precisely Ivan Ivanovich. She or he confirms it.

        Option 2. The man was asked (perhaps on the phone, but not necessarily) if his name is Ivan Ivanovich. And he confirms it: "Да, Иван Иванович."

        Option 3. Ivan Ivanovich asked him something. And this person answers the question in the affirmative, adding the name of the questioner. But in this case there will be no pause after "Да"

        Option 4. Ivan Ivanovich began conversation, calling someone by name (for example, in office). And this person confirms with this answer that he hears and will not miss the information. But in this case there will be no pause after "Да" too. In this version, this phrase can sometimes be written as a question, as done in this exercise. This question mark may emphasize the interest of the person in the conversation with Ivan Ivanovich. With this answer the person seems to say: "Yes, and what exactly do you want to say? I'm listening carefully"


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MatisJoab

        Should't "Ivan, son of Ivan" also be accepted as Ivan Ivanovich, considering it's the literal meaning? It sound weird of course, but then patronymic's generally sound weird in English.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zhenya_Melamud

        If you say it to russians they will not understand you. I would say that it's better to use just name Ivan in that case. Russians names usually have two 'forms': full (official) and short. Ivan - Vanya, Eugenia - Zhenya, Ekaterina - Katya. If you use full name it's enough for official conversations


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/keinemeinung

        I don't know, would it be proper to translate "Leif Eriksson" as "Leif, the son of Erik"? Most family names in many languages (I know, not necessarily the same as patronymics) have direct translations that "generally sound weird in English".


        [deactivated user]

          We can look at Old English and see that a name like that in English would be Leif Ericsson. Or Jon Hendricsson. I think that modern English speakers forget that if they say something like "John's son" or "Johnson", they are unwittingly saying the old vestigial remnants of the English patronymic system.


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MichielSchukking

          Because of the question mark I thought I would be a question, like: Are you I.I.?


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GoldenShogun

          Shouldn't this be "Yes, Ivan?" I would have thought you don't need to include the patronymic in the translation.


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/keinemeinung

          The inclusion of the patronymic denotes subordination to and/or expression of respect towards Ivan Ivanovich (as in, he is perhaps your boss, professor, or a foreign business partner that you work with on a professional basis but have not established more cordial/friendly relations with, or a doctor, etc.).

          Let's say this gentleman's last name was Сидоров. In English you would say Mr. Sidorov, and in Russian you could get away with saying Господин Сидоров, but if you know his имя очество then you're really showin' off your cultural skills and you'll sound more natural.


          [deactivated user]

            I am noticing a lot more proper nouns in Russian and Turkish than I saw in the romance languages. Is that to get us used to the different alphabet with some things we just sound out instead of translate?


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/marcos49088

            What is an ivanoch?


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rezareza8

            Roman romanov Qader qaderov Is (ov) also make the name patrominic like (ovich)? Спасибо


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DemianPach

            Would using "Right" rather than "Yes" be wrong in this case? Yes sounds unnatural.


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/keinemeinung

            "Right, Ivan Ivanovich?" sounds incorrect to me (West Coast US English speaker). It sounds like a request for confirmation of a statement (Is that right?/Is that correct?) as opposed to a simple acknowledgment of someone's presence.


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DemianPach

            But why would it be an acknowledgement of someone's presence, rather than a request of confirmation of an statement? The Russian phrase, I mean. Other languages' versions of "yes" don't always have the connotation of acknowledgement like that.


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/keinemeinung

            It's just the word. If you were asking if something was right or not it would be better to use Верно или Правда as opposed to just Да. Just like in English, I don't feel like "yes" and "right?" are synonymous, at least not in this context (but I hesitate to say that since I've spent a few hours on this site and have seen how things that sound abnormal to me are 100% the norm in a different part of the English speaking world).


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/draalaa

            I wanna join any russian language club can anybody name one for me?


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JohanFalk5

            Ivanovitj should be correct translation for swedish learners.


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mr1734

            Why is there a “?“ ?


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Peter594672

            Because it is a phrase with which you show your attention rather than agreement. So it is pronounced with interrogative intonation (thus "?"), not affirmative.


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MightyXT

            "Да" can also mean what, why isn't it right?


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/keinemeinung

            Can you find any references that demonstrate the use of Да as What?


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Peter594672

            Easy, same as in English. You hail / call out someone by their name, and the person responds with interrogative "yes?" that simultaneously means an array of things from "you've got my attention" to "what do you want/need from me?" - and there's your "what".

            And when you do that like a 10th time in 15 minutes, the meaning of the annoyed "да?" you get in response can be narrowed to a quite harsh "what?" ;)


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/keinemeinung

            Lol that's quite the explanation. I think for the sake of argument we have to assume it's the first time, though haha


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ken639518

            Omg!! Turgenev is my favourite writer!!!


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jehovah8

            I do not understand the bottom translation, could someone help me with understanding it, please?


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/keinemeinung

            Can you please explain what you mean by "bottom translation"? Thanks!


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SnubbulLilah

            um Jehovah8, can you be my friend


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Greg496

            Am I the only one that finds the constant typing of names to be a waste of time? I would much rather concentrate on the rest of the sentence structure, grammar and spelling than the same couple names over and over and over.


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/freemansbp

            Pls no more ivan vanya vera.. more variety pls


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PhriendlyCody

            Rip in peace Lev Tolstoi


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/B9oxu

            Definitely not stereotypical at all or anything


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/B9oxu

            Definitely not stereotypical or anything


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Starssport

            What is the difference between ivan and ivanavic


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HinterDir1

            So ч is like tsch?

            Learn Russian in just 5 minutes a day. For free.