"Да, Иван Иванович?"

Translation:Yes, Ivan Ivanovich?

3 years ago

67 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/Zhenya_Melamud

that question in russian language basically can mean two things: 1. Are you agree with me, Ivan Ivanovich? 2. I'm listening to you, Ivan Ivanovich - usually for phone calls

So 'Yes, Ivan Ivanovich' is not the correct translation anyway.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/johnnycury
johnnycury
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Actually, I think "Yes, Ivan?" can be understood as "Do you agree, Ivan?". It's just a matter of context.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/northernguy
northernguy
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This Duo example is intended to show that no matter how short the sentence, no matter what it means, if you include the person's name in the sentence and you want to be polite you add the patronymic form to the name. If you don't feel the need or have the desire to be polite then you don't add the patronymic. Choosing to add or not add the patronymic is your choice. It is not dictated by any thing in the sentence.

Conjecture about what context, meaning or style is intended by this sentence is irrelevant. The speaker/writer is saying ....yes. That is all there is to it. He then adds someone's name to it. No more, no less.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Celeb-Lammen

So would they also add the patronymic if they're annoyed, like we use someone's full name? "Samantha Abigail Milliner, GET DOWN HERE THIS INSTANT!" Could this sentence be interpreted as someone snapping at Ivan? I know the meaning is irrelevant, but I was interested in going further. Thank you for your helpful comment!

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/statenyoung

What is Ivanovich here? I don't understand what a "patronymic" is at all.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/burasto

Russian names are composed of a first name + patronymic + last name. The patronymic is a name that indicates the name of your father. For example, if Viktor's father is called Boris, Viktor patronymic would be Borisovich ("son of Boris"), if Viktor has a sister, her patronymic would be Borisovna ("daughter of Boris").

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/FaizalZahid
FaizalZahid
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Like Hebrew's "ben" or "bat" and Arabic's "bin" or "bint", right?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/RawanSays

yes to both! though in both arabic and hebrew it's not very common to use in everyday coversation. (in old arabic, it was way more common)

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Harsh001

Thank you.. My confusion is cleared now

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/J.C.Fink
J.C.Fink
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It is my understanding that there are no surnames as such in modern Iceland, only patronymics (or sometimes matronymics). Men add the suffix -son to their father's name, women add -dóttir. The telephone directory alphabetizes by first names.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/JayMilkshake
JayMilkshake
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English used to have it with 'son', but I think the surnames stagnated at some point.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ElNia119545

Huh.

1 month ago

https://www.duolingo.com/burasto

Do russians usually call each other by their first name + patronymic instead of their first name + last name? Is it common to call your close friends by their patronymic instead of their first name?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/arthur0703
arthur0703
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Russians use the both variants. You can call somebody (not your relative nor a friend) Иван Иванович or Иван + last name. Just, when you use the first variant, you sound better and more beautiful.

There are actually some special rules. If you use only the patronymic (to a very close friend, in an ironic way. But note, now young people don't use this way, that is okay only for the adult generation), you should use a short variant (yeah, the short variant of the patronymic, a very colloqial variant): for example: Иван Иванович! - Иваныч! (imagine, that Иваныч is your close friend, your buddy) Владимир Васильевич! - Василич!

But nonetheless, i am repeating, it is not common nowadays.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/burasto

Thank you, that explains a lot! I actually had seen that variant when reading about a russian musician. His patronymic is Михайлович, but he's nicknamed «Михалыч» by other team members and fans. Thank you very much for your explanation!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/kdammers
kdammers
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As an older American, should i use my patronym in Russia, Belarus, Ukraine or Kazakhstan?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/arthur0703
arthur0703
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I don't know anything about Kazakhstan, but in Russia, Ukraine and Belarus patronymics are used widely.

During the soviet time, in Kazakhstan patronymics were used widely as well -- maybe even now

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/kdammers
kdammers
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Thank you, but did you understand my question? I mean, should I use MY patronym?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/arthur0703
arthur0703
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Yeah, I suppose I didn't understand your question and I hesitated to ask again.

If your father's name isn't Russian (for example, John, George, Ben or Etan), you shouldn't use your patronymic, because patronymics are formed only from names used for Russian children and only for Russian children. So, no "Джонович/Джорджович/Бенович/Итанович" can be formed. (Actually, they can be formed and used but only for jokes or ironical phrases -- or only if you want to become a real Russian guy)

So, conclusion: if you come to one of the countries where Russian is spoken, there is no need for you to use a patronymic. You can just name your first name and it will be totally okay -- sometimes now even older people don't name their patronymic in some informal situations.

Patronymics are used by adults (or by children when they address to an adult) in formal conversations. But foreign people don't use their patronymics in Russia because they always sound funny.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/BillEverett
BillEverett
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As an older American, where I first worked in Moscow, the name on my пропуск was Эверетт Иван Иванович. I have have a daughter and a son with the respective patronymics Уильямовна and Уильямович.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Kundoo
Kundoo
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In modern Russia we don't add patronymics to people who don't have them.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/BillEverett
BillEverett
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This was also true in the 19th century Russian empire. People of some nationalities did not use patronymics. Some of such people had two names (as is usual for Americans today). The notation "of two names" was not rare in acts officially registering a birth, marriage, or death. In some cases with a patronymic given in a birth act in which the father had two names, one of the names was used to form the patronymic. In other cases, both names were used to form one patronymic. The instances of patronymics being given was rare in the records I have seen, and I don't have enough cases to guess at the rules, if any.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Spirus123
Spirus123
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No,in case you are of the same age and don't work in the same company. To call your counterpart someone like Petrovich,you have to drink a ton of vodka with him . A cubic 1.05 m,to be more accurate)))

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Spirus123
Spirus123
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You aren't

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/keinemeinung
keinemeinung
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In addition to the other great answers here, it's also the polite and formal way of addressing a superior (instructors, doctors, professors, etc.). They don't tend to do the whole "Mr." and "Mrs." thing over there.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Chucklenuts7
Chucklenuts7
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Can we get Владимир Владимирович?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/poodamoff

Interesting - just looked up the name Ivan and I see it's a variant of Greek Ioannes, English "John"... So Иван Иванович is basically John Johnson? :)

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MatisJoab
MatisJoab
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Should't "Ivan, son of Ivan" also be accepted as Ivan Ivanovich, considering it's the literal meaning? It sound weird of course, but then patronymic's generally sound weird in English.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Zhenya_Melamud

If you say it to russians they will not understand you. I would say that it's better to use just name Ivan in that case. Russians names usually have two 'forms': full (official) and short. Ivan - Vanya, Eugenia - Zhenya, Ekaterina - Katya. If you use full name it's enough for official conversations

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/keinemeinung
keinemeinung
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I don't know, would it be proper to translate "Leif Eriksson" as "Leif, the son of Erik"? Most family names in many languages (I know, not necessarily the same as patronymics) have direct translations that "generally sound weird in English".

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MichielSchukking

Because of the question mark I thought I would be a question, like: Are you I.I.?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/GoldenShogun
GoldenShogun
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Shouldn't this be "Yes, Ivan?" I would have thought you don't need to include the patronymic in the translation.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/keinemeinung
keinemeinung
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The inclusion of the patronymic denotes subordination to and/or expression of respect towards Ivan Ivanovich (as in, he is perhaps your boss, professor, or a foreign business partner that you work with on a professional basis but have not established more cordial/friendly relations with, or a doctor, etc.).

Let's say this gentleman's last name was Сидоров. In English you would say Mr. Sidorov, and in Russian you could get away with saying Господин Сидоров, but if you know his имя очество then you're really showin' off your cultural skills and you'll sound more natural.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Andrealphus
Andrealphus
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I am noticing a lot more proper nouns in Russian and Turkish than I saw in the romance languages. Is that to get us used to the different alphabet with some things we just sound out instead of translate?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/marcos49088

What is an ivanoch?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Zhenya_Melamud

Patronimic

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/rezareza8

Roman romanov Qader qaderov Is (ov) also make the name patrominic like (ovich)? Спасибо

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/DemianPach
DemianPach
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Would using "Right" rather than "Yes" be wrong in this case? Yes sounds unnatural.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/keinemeinung
keinemeinung
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"Right, Ivan Ivanovich?" sounds incorrect to me (West Coast US English speaker). It sounds like a request for confirmation of a statement (Is that right?/Is that correct?) as opposed to a simple acknowledgment of someone's presence.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/DemianPach
DemianPach
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But why would it be an acknowledgement of someone's presence, rather than a request of confirmation of an statement? The Russian phrase, I mean. Other languages' versions of "yes" don't always have the connotation of acknowledgement like that.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/keinemeinung
keinemeinung
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It's just the word. If you were asking if something was right or not it would be better to use Верно или Правда as opposed to just Да. Just like in English, I don't feel like "yes" and "right?" are synonymous, at least not in this context (but I hesitate to say that since I've spent a few hours on this site and have seen how things that sound abnormal to me are 100% the norm in a different part of the English speaking world).

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/draalaa
draalaa
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I wanna join any russian language club can anybody name one for me?

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/GT_Shark

What an odd sentence! A teacher calling on a student perhaps? In the US, if someone is asked a question, they typically just say "yes" or "No". Wouldn't it be odd if every time a person asked you a question, you replied with Yes + "persons name" :)

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/keinemeinung
keinemeinung
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It's a formal way of addressing someone. If your boss comes towards you and says your name you'd respond like this. Literally the exact same as "Yes, Mr. White?" in English, or "Yes, sir?" (where you know the "sir's" name).

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/GT_Shark

Ah... perfect explanation. Thank you!

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/GT_Shark

OK... with the question mark, I just can't wrap my head around where this would be used. Saying "yes" then a name with a question mark after it. Guess it must be a Russian cultural thing when using a phone?

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/JohanFalk5

Ivanovitj should be correct translation for swedish learners.

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Mr1712

Why is there a “?“ ?

9 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Peter594672
Peter594672
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Because it is a phrase with which you show your attention rather than agreement. So it is pronounced with interrogative intonation (thus "?"), not affirmative.

9 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MightyXT
MightyXT
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"Да" can also mean what, why isn't it right?

9 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/keinemeinung
keinemeinung
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Can you find any references that demonstrate the use of Да as What?

9 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Peter594672
Peter594672
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Easy, same as in English. You hail / call out someone by their name, and the person responds with interrogative "yes?" that simultaneously means an array of things from "you've got my attention" to "what do you want/need from me?" - and there's your "what".

And when you do that like a 10th time in 15 minutes, the meaning of the annoyed "да?" you get in response can be narrowed to a quite harsh "what?" ;)

9 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/keinemeinung
keinemeinung
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Lol that's quite the explanation. I think for the sake of argument we have to assume it's the first time, though haha

9 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Ken639518

Omg!! Turgenev is my favourite writer!!!

5 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/InsertGoodName

What?

2 weeks ago

https://www.duolingo.com/eliliang

I hear all the syllables of the patronymic clearly. I was under the impression that "Иванович" is supposed to be pronounced as "Иванич" with the "-ов-" sounds omitted, and that instead enunciating all the syllables makes it awkward.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/OscarFloyd1

Why Can't we say Ivan son of Ivan? That is basically what a Patronymic is, right?

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/keinemeinung
keinemeinung
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That's basically how it might translate as. However, you don't translate foreign proper names (just because Вера means Faith doesn't mean you would call Вера Петровна "Faith, Daughter of Peter"

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Peter594672
Peter594672
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"Faith, Daughter of Rock", if we're translating names here ;)

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ZS52cC7B

there should not be a question mark. This is not a question!

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/keinemeinung
keinemeinung
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It is if Ivan Ivanovich is asking for your attention.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/websmasha

I laughed out when I heard the sentence- Why do we have to repeat the name? I wrote- "Yes, IvanIvanovich?"

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/keinemeinung
keinemeinung
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It's not repeating the name, Ivan is the given name and Ivanovich is the patronym (derived from the father's name). Two things of note. 1. In Russian culture, people don't have middle names, though the patronymic can be considered the closest thing to a middle name (although it's not "given", but determined by heritage). 2. This is a rather formal way of addressing someone (you would say имя очество in Russian as opposed to title + last name).

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Lolalaroche

I think they meant, what's the point in writing it? it'a not a translation. I wondered that as well, it's not teaching anything.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/northernguy
northernguy
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Looks to me like it is teaching that there is an alternative translation of someone's first name that is not obvious to most English speakers.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/keinemeinung
keinemeinung
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This is actually how you would address someone... It's teaching you culture and the proper manner of address of a professor or supervisor, for instance.

9 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/arctickisa

I didn't know that!

1 year ago
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