"Grass is near the palace."

Translation:Возле дворца трава.

November 13, 2015

76 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mightypotatoe

This is an awkward sounding sentence, perhaps "there is grass near the palace" would be a better way to phrase this.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shkrjab

Во дворе трава. На траве дрова. На дровах братва в дрова. )))))


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JanetGidle

On the grass is a darova!! What. And this gets 13 upvotes and a Lingo? I'm I missing the joke? The last translation is husterical.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jlinsitges

This was flagged five ago and it is still the same awkward sentence. Hellllllo!? Waky waky.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kendra800150

I agree; the English sentence sounds very unnatural to me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ianrowcliffe

That is what makes sense to me, too:-) And follows the logic of the lesson...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NathanGood12

Why wouldn't "около" work here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YougamiDai

What is the difference between возле and около?


[deactivated user]

    I don't feel much difference between these words.


    [deactivated user]

      There is no difference.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kany667466

      Разница есть, "возле" это когда рядом, близко, больше всего подходит near, "Около" это уже дальше от объекта, в пределах видимости или быстрой досягаемости пешком


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alejandroenoc99

      If Дворца is the prepositional form,what would be the nominative form?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MattVincent1

      Дворец is nominitive. Sometimes the penultimate vowel of a noun with a suffix will be dropped. Simply has to be memorized.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/m.eminenti

      Дворец, and двореца (wrong) contracts to дворца


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Antixity

      Дворца is the genitive form. Prepositional would be дворце


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/noonresh

      After возле should be prepositional or genitive?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OhItsAlex

      Why after возле we don't put дворце instead of Двореца


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Antixity

      Возле takes the genitive form (дворца). Дворце is the prepositional form.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LukasGroth

      Why not "Возле дворца есть трава"?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndrewMehr3

      The existence of both things are both known, otherwise it would be a question of there being a palace near the grass, if I understand from other lessons. Kind of like having a brother or sister, when stating as such it's confirming existence, but by having a relation of where both items are, i.e. near, they both are determined already.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Yiannis49

      Yes, the lesson notes say '«есть» is not used, unless the sentence really has to emphasize the existence of the object'.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/subtlepseudonym

      Why isn't Возле трава дворца accepted?


      [deactivated user]

        One does not simply separate pronouns from nouns

        Во́зле is a preposition and, together with a noun it modifies (дворца́), it constitutes an indivisible phrase. You could insert other words modifying the noun (e.g. возле краси́вого дворца́ 'near the beautiful palace'), but not completely unrelated words.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/an_alias

        I'll certainly remember the placement now thanks to the meme :)

        So, based on what you've said, "Возле трава дворца" would actually mean "The palace is near the grass"? Or is it just completely awkward/nonsensical?


        [deactivated user]

          Sorry, yes, it's definitely a preposition! I'll need to fix my message. (Upd: fixed it)

          «Возле трава дворца» would mean nothing, since во́зле requires genitive, and трава́ is nominative. It could work if there was a masculine noun тра́в (near the palace's трав), but we don't have such a noun.


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/an_alias

          Also updated - this never happened ;)

          And, ugh, of course Возле/genitive. This is my most frustrating thing about Russian right now. I'm getting more comfortable with the case system (which is progress, I suppose) - I just don't always remember to think about it.

          Thanks!


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/subtlepseudonym

          That makes sense! So возле трава дворца would mean something similar (the palace is near the grass), but not literally what they're looking for?


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/takes_Courage

          What you wrote means, 'Near the grass, palace.' But none of the conjugation are correct


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Aino764046

          "Трава около дворца." must be accepted. Reported it.


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kpagcha

          Трава возле дворца ?


          [deactivated user]

            I think this would mean «The grass is near the palace», but I’m not sure.


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/an_alias

            I could be wrong in my attempt to apply this elsewhere, but I found your word order explanation of something similar on another thread to be extremely helpful. It's still awkward for me but having that framework in which to think of it has been very useful.

            https://www.duolingo.com/comment/11607192

            Or, it doesn't apply here at all and I don't understand it as well as I think I do. That's entirely possible, likely even! Feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken.


            [deactivated user]

              Thanks! This is applicable here.

              Since the time I wrote that post I've found a description of word order in Rosenthal. Basically, it confirms my intuition about the old/new information (topic-comment relation), but there's another dimension to it: sometimes the word order is fixed.

              An example of the fixed word order is the position of adjectives, I've decribed it here yesterday: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/11877095 — it has nothing to do with what's new information.


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vladislav391563

              Трава около дворца


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alexey387055

              I agree with you!


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NatkaReva

              "возле" = "около"


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ottorm

              Why not дворце if it comes after a preposition?


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mightypotatoe

              Not all prepositions take prepositional case. Возле and около take the genitive.


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DAVIDLAGUN9

              I don't know when i have to use accusative, genetive and nominative in these sentences... Can someone explain it to me....


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EvJj6

              Why not двореца?


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Andyemanu

              Is "Трава находится близко дворца" wrong? In case, why? I always thought близко and возле were synonyms.


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Smike77

              If you use "близко" you need a preposition after this word like this:
              "близко к дворцу", "близко ко мне"


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Andyemanu

              Makes sense, thanks a lot :)


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fer._.dmz

              How can you know when to use дворце and дворца


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Paul42649

              Возле дворца лежит трава. What else would it be doing?


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kundoo

              The grass grows ("растёт"), not lies. "Возле дворца лежит трава" implies mowed grass.


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HiHi579925

              What is the difference between <<дворца> и <<дворце>


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Antixity

              Дворца - genitive. Дворце - prepositional.


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JanetGidle

              No one, especially native speakers would say wird order is nit important. A bit more flexible , but irder can change meaning, even in Russian.


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Matthew-215401

              I have such difficulty comprehending the cases without an abundance of clear examples. Somebody explained above that дворца is genitive and дворце , is prepositional. But would somebody be so kind as to give a few examples of sentences which correctly use дворце?
              Thanks in advance!


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/E-chan.

              The prepositional case is always used with, well, prepositions. These are the prepositions that can be used: в(о), на, о/об/обо, по, при. На isn't very useful for дворец, and по can't be used at all. These are the rest:

              Король живёт во дворце. — The king lives in the palace.
              Посейдон живёт в роскошном дворце на дне моря. — Poseidon lives in a luxurious palace at the bottom of the sea.
              Сегодня во дворце бал. — There is a ball in the palace today.
              Опочивальня — это спальня во дворце. — A bedchamber is a bedroom in a palace.
              Расскажи мне о Дворце Наций! — Tell me about the Palace of Nations!
              книга о Зимнем дворце — a book about The Winter Palace
              При дворце есть шут. — There is a jester at the palace.


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/yasmine_y

              I wrote "трава у дворца". :/


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gacowi1

              У дворца трава would that work here


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alexey387055

              Если буквально, то тут "трава возле дворца", а не "возле дворца трава".


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alexey387055

              Зачем усложнять перевод?


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jaap_R

              With what case does возле go? I don't know the grammatical gender of "palace"


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mightypotatoe

              Nouns following возле take the genitive case. Дворец is masculine.


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Doloresthetaco

              Why does дворца end with а?


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kundoo

              It's in the genitive case. The preposition "возле" requires the genitive.


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ingefromgermany

              Why not "Возле дворца есть трава"?


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SnakeBelmont

              I really cannot predict the word order. Some say it emphasizes the focus of the sentence, but how to predict this?


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cherryGworl

              Duolingo doesnt rlly put stories for us to read in russian unlike the more popular languages. Its not fair tbh


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VladIvanov830329

              Though you won't get points for it, there is a site that translates the original Duolingo stories into unsupported languages. Look up Unofficial Duolingo Stories.


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JanetGidle

              It would be fun if every time we finished a section we could get a story to read using the words we learned. It would be hard to do that when we didn't learn much yet but I wouldn't care if it was short and silly.


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ryanchristia192

              WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THESE. I CANNOT GET THEM. Why is the answer flipped like this, sheesh this is the most difficult lesson to date for no specific reason. I have spent 2 hrs on this


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JanetGidle

              Do the location first then add what's near it. NEAR THE PALACE (is ) grass. We know about THE palace. What's near it? (Newer info) grass. The word THE in English means it will be placed first in Russian. Grass is near THE palace. Near THE palace is grass. Both these will be translated Возле дворца - трава. If you say Воэле траве - дворец it would mean near THE grass is a palace. THE Grass would become what we know and A palace is is what we didn't know.


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ryanchristia192

              For some reason the word order has changed for this lesson.


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Francyisstpizza

              Why возле дворца and not возле дворце?


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/E-chan.

              Because "возле" requires the genitive case.


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nniella1

              Дворца восле трава shouldnt be wrong


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/E-chan.

              This is grammatically wrong and doesn't make sense in Russian.


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JanetGidle

              That explanation is at the top. Also возле not восле.

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