Is there a hard and fast rule governing the position of adverbs with verbs in Portuguese... and how about adverbs with adjectives?? Surely it doesn't depend on the individual adverb?
I would say, in general, when the adverb changes the way something is done, it's placed after the verb. We call them "advérbios de modo" (I'm not sure if I can call them modal adverbs or if it would mean something different - I'm not english native)
Ela cozinha bem (she cooks well - in a good way)
Ele corre rápido (he runs fast - in a fast way)
Ele escreve normalmente (he writes normally - in a normal way)
Now try that with "already" (já).
He already has sons (he has sons in an already way??? It makes no sense, so it's not an "advérbio de modo")
You could do the same with "não". (You can't do something in a not way)
I would say adverbs of time follow the same rule, come after the verb.
Venha já! (come now - time)
Já estou indo (already coming - not time).
Vou mais tarde (I'll go later - time)
Curiosity: "mente" suffix is the same as "ly" in english.
Completamente = Completely = In a complete way
I would even risk saying these are the same rules as in english.
I guess modal adverbs are a bit different in English:
But some certainly can come at different places in a sentence in English. If we change "fast" to "quickly" it can be, he runs quickly, or he quickly runs for instance. And I think we can change it up with many of the time examples too (though of course not as common, but English is quite lithe in some of its abilities).
However, what I would really like to know at this moment is why the sentence for this exercise cannot be translated to, "My brother now has grandchildren" as in, his daughter just had twins. And if it cannot be in this configuration, then what is the Portuguese for this rejected-by-Duo sentence?
Thank you, as always for your time. :)
What kind of question is that? (:
Very probably in the same degree as you can use the English language without any adverbs?
Question, doesn't "he quickly runs" suggest the idea that he "immediately starts running"?
I think he immediately starts running is better covered by, he immediately starts running.
If we were to plug in, He immediately runs [to the store] then it would be he goes right now (not even necessarily running). Same with, *He runs immediately [to the store].
Similar with quickly in that he is not necessarily running depending on the context (such as going to the store – I think it is somehow related to running guns, ammo, and alcohol during prohibition:D). But it is about how he does it (not wasting any time), rather than when he does it. He goes quickly; He quickly goes.
See #4 – (social) To carry out an activity:
And now that I have seen "run" over and over, it no longer looks like a valid word. =]
But it is a word of many meanings it turns out. Adverbs just enhance them, no matter really where they happen to fall in the sentence.
As for the adverbs, they were kicking my backside. Duolingo in its infinite wisdom changed the algorithm for practice which meant I could never get Adverbs to go gold (along with almost all others but I could get them there temporarily at least). I had just finished the lesson so I could not understand why it was being so obstinate. Except when I would practice, a sentence exercise would come up and I would think, "I have never seen that word before!' Then I would check the discussion only to discover not only had I voted a comment or two up, but even made a comment! =]
Finally, I just did the entire lesson over and accepted that I will never understand adverbs that do not end in mente and it has been fine since. :)
I suspect that misbehavior is due to:
- The system automatically detects sentences that people don't get easily and gradually makes those senteces vanish from the course (which we contributors are massively and definitely against
- This may lead to certain words being generally difficult and having all their sentences hidden
- Thus users will never see those words
- The system then, based on "word strength" will always find a word that is not trained, and thus never golden the skills.
- Once in a while, in general practices, they start pulling out the difficult sentences, and.... yes, those that you have never seen will appear as unfair challenges.
In order to golden a skill, you may need to go lesson by lesson until you find which lesson has the hidden word and be lucky to get it at least once in an exercise.
*1- It's obvious for those who teach languages that some conecepts and usages are simply not simple. Hiding these from learners is simply against teaching. On the other hand, this is also a mistake-prevention mechanism that hides sentences that are badly or insufficiently translated.
Okay, having said all that... in isolation (without a destination or other activity attached), "he runs quickly", or "he quickly runs" can have (not always) a difference in that the first can be a commentary on how fast he runs, while the second can be just how he runs (fast or otherwise, he is not dawdling).
Thanks for that further explanation of the site bugs. It really helps to understand, and takes away the aggravation that can come from not getting it (either the decay rate or the adverbs :D).
To be honest, in hindsight it was good to have the extra practice because now I have achieved some measure of "fluency". I went through an entire adverb practice last night and did not struggle nor get any wrong (without any peeking even). YAY!
So now I am grateful. :)
I am glad that you fight for the difficult sentences too (at least the solid ones) because they are important as well. Making them vanish does not change the concepts we still need to learn. The discussions are great for helping unlock those.
Yeah, there needs to be some way to distinguish a badly chosen / ambiguous question from one that's simply difficult. They're both frustrating, but the quality of the frustration is entirely different, ditto the implications for fluency. Dan, please keep fighting the good fight. : )
I'm not sure I understand your question very clearly, but I think you're asking about the "ja" in this sentence. The word ja typically appears before the verb in affirmative sentences, and after in commands, but all rules in grammar come with exceptions :)
Why is "netos" only translated as grandchildren/grandkids? How would you say 'grandsons' in Portuguese?
you would say "netos" but in the context of this sentence, they are referring to the general noun. When it could be girls and boys, and they haven't specified, go with the masculine form.
Maybe you were confused because the way the word «neto» starts makes it resemble the English nephew but that means your bother or sister's children and they are looking for a different relationship in the family line here.
Duolingo probably wants the adverb to be in as close to the same place in the English as they have it in the Portuguese.
However, while adverbs in English can be quite flexible in placement, in this case, already does not usually come before the object (otherwise it seems to be modifying the grandchildren instead; same issue with putting it between my and brother).
- My brother has grandchildren already
- Already my brother has grandchildren
- My brother already has grandchildren
"has already" for "already has" is not very standard english (though it's a word order many english-as-second-language people use, including highly educated people / language teachers, and thus even some second generation speakers).
I don't know the logic behind the word order. But except in a command / imperative, like "leave me alone, already!" "already" is usually before the verb, in english.
Making things more complicated, with other verbs (other than "to be" or "to have") "already" is not commonly used with the present tense. (Probably because it intrinsically refers to something that happened in the past?)
So, you use it with the past tense, in english: He already is a lawyer; he already ran to the store this morning, where he already saw the news.
Alternatively, if it's something planned and imminent, that'll certainly happen: I'm already running to the store for milk (so I can pick up some milk for you, too.)
There's no reason that one word has to do double duty for those two circumstances, so I guess it's not surprising that the sentences are constructed differently for those two purposes.
edit: "he has" (meaning, he possesses) is different from "has" as part of a combined verb form.
"He has gone to the store, already" or "he has already gone to the store" and "he already has gone to the store" are all reasonably idiomatic, though with slightly different emphasis. (The last option, maybe you're a little upset, that someone is asking him to go to the store again and again!) It's less usual to say, "he has gone already to the store."
But in these cases, "Has gone" is the verb; "has" isn't used to indicate that he possesses the property of "going to the store."
The sound didn’t play last time i did this exercise, and in practising now neither. I have to key in any letters to see the result, write it the answer down, then key in the answer when it comes up for practise again