"Я не знаю её фамилию."

Translation:I do not know her last name.

November 14, 2015

34 Comments
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https://www.duolingo.com/profile/solidgitarius

фамилию is accusative here.


[deactivated user]

    yes and so is the pronoun proceeding it. once I learned the case endings and learned to identify them Russian became much easier to read (feminine accusative: U/YU


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Will709432

    Are you quite sure about that? Isn't eë genitive


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kundoo

    "Её" is the possessive pronoun here. It happened to have the same form as the genitive of "она" but that's incidental.

    The same happens in English actually. In the "I don't know her surname" the "her" is the possessive, whereas in "I don't know her" it's not (it's the objective case - a remnant from the times when English had cases too), even though it looks the same. If we use a different pronoun you can see the difference. Compare "You don't know my surname" and "You don't know me", for example.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Will709432

    Thanks. These cases are getting really confusing. Time I got a good book on the subject methinks :)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arnasio

    Can you confirm that? I thought the negation here will require genitive


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alison198261

    I did too. Then realised you need HET and not HE to make it genitive! It would need to be "she has no last name"


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ap2907

    Actually it's not even a pronoun, and it is in the accusative case just because it's undeclinable.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shivaadh

    фами́лия [fɐˈmʲilʲɪjə] Note how the final я is reduced to a schwa. Does this always happen when the stress falls on the preceding syllable (analogous to o-reduction)?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/leod120

    No, not only when it's on the preceding syllable; think of it more as "distance to the stressed syllable". Doesn't matter whether it's stressed before or after. The vowels of the type "o" and "a" ("я" falls under that) both are reduced, and the farther they're away from the stressed syllable, the more reduced they get.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bsalinasz13

    Would surname work or is that a different word...


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theron126

    Surname should work.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KeithBrown932

    Yes it should work.... But it didn't


    [deactivated user]

      it just worked for me, and I am happy.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexDale7

      Based on some of the other exercises in this skill... Можно сказать «Я не знаю её фамилии»? (Using the genitive case of фамилия).


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kundoo

      Yes, it's a bit less common way to say it, but not incorrect.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlessiaDaR5

      Is there some table to understand better the cases and the relative endings? Please, going crazy over here!


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dnagashi

      I particularly liked this one, which was posted by someone else in another excercise: http://www.russianlessons.net/grammar/nouns_nominative.php

      The other cases are linked on the page.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shivaadh

      Dnagashi's linked site is great for explanations. For quick reference, I prefer https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_declension. Even quicker and as a handy, light and laminated sheet that can be carried around during commuting: https://de.pons.com/grammatik-wortschatz/pons-grammatik-auf-einen-blick-russisch-978-3-12-561908-1/russisch. You don't need to understand German to use it.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shivaadh

      It includes declination tables of nouns, pronouns, adjectives, prepositions - these definitely don't require knowledge of German. It also includes explanations of verbal conjugation - I think you can only use those if you understand German, or already know the Russian rules and are using the cheatsheet for reference. Same goes for the included information on word order in different types of propositions (affirmation, negation, interrogation), the info on numbers and the translation of conjunctions.

      Size: 3* double-sided A4 sheets. Cost: 5€ (worth every cent :)


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MAVENfunBUPKIS

      This is a false cognate, if ever I've known one. Фамилия means not "family", but rather "last (family) name". The word for "family" is семья.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alex_Kinsey

      Right, I just fell for that one :D


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ishana92

      and it goes against all my language intuition


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/.Ice-Cream.

      I think of фамилия as family name, which is usually the surname of a person


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shivaadh

      Fun fact: apparently, the original (and now obsolete) meaning was actually "family" (https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/фамилия).

      In the meantime, "family" got a suffix and became фами́лия +‎ -ный (https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/фамильный#Russian).


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/clairelanc3

      I think " family name" should be accepted.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shivaadh

      -ный is a suffix that is tagged on to convert a noun/ verb into an adjective. The alternative form - used when the ending is stressed - is -но́й.

      Variants occur in certain cases:

      • When the stem ends in a velar/ ц -> palatisation.

      • "A stem ending in -л turns into -ль before the suffix; contrariwise, all other stems ending in -ь lose this."

      • Special rules concerning change of stress [that I'm not ready to deal with yet].

      https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/-ный#Russian


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shivaadh

      The list of Russian words with the suffix -ный is gigantic. So it's probably quite a good idea to learn the declension table by heart https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/-%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9#Russian.

      The stressed form has less words.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Irina-En

      I'm just curious. Is it not enough to say "I do not know her name"? Or should we also say "What is your last name"?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mejips

      Someone does knows if фамилия has a connection with "familia" in Spanish or the other romance language?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kundoo

      Of course it does. The English word "family" is also related.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mdubu_Mkubwa

      A pretty basic dating milestone


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ap2907

      This is a trap...

      Learn Russian in just 5 minutes a day. For free.