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"Директор повесил карту страны возле расписания поездов."

Translation:The director hung a map of the country near the trains schedule.

November 15, 2015

51 Comments

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https://www.duolingo.com/profile/yashamax

We would never say "trains schedule" but "train schedule"
"trains' schedule" is grammatically correct, but weird

April 19, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/piguy3

I have learned there seem to be few 'nevers' in a global language, but, yeah, I agree. In American English as I know it, at least, "trains schedule" is not idiomatic.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Eric590808

Agreed, when a word like train is suffixed with an 's' it implies only either possession or pluralization (or both). If the 's' is there, it must be one of these three to make any sense in English: [1] The schedule of the train (the train's schedule) or (the train schedule). [2] The schedule of the trains (the trains' schedule). [3] The schedules of the trains (the trains' schedules). There is no example that makes any good sense where "the trains schedule" can work in English, unless you are saying that the the trains schedule a route for themselves automatically via on-board computers. And while there are seldom any strict "always/never" rules in any language, this is one of those distinct situations one might cite as an example.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salempippin

i agree. i just put "trains" to be marked right.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndroidKanada

Although I think I've read this kind of phrasing in English literature of the early 20th century, I can't find examples, and I agree it's rare at best. It could simply be a typo. ))

Is "train schedule" accepted? That's the main thing, and the easiest to fix.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GregoryLCh

I wouldn't think it's enough to accept a correct translation if the system still recommends an incorrect one - but it's certainly the first priority. I'm using the tiles, so I don't have the option here of giving a correct translation (or the frustration of possibly having it rejected).

The Google N-gram viewer is not able to find "trains schedule"in English literature.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Phil_Stracchino

"Train schedule" is not accepted. Reported. "Расписание поестов" (schedule of trains) may be correct Russian, but the English "trains schedule" given is just flat wrong.

Duolingo does not make this error with "train station" or "bus stop", so why here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/yashamax

Well said, Phil. If you look at the other comments, we have reported this error loooooong ago. Maybe no reads these comments.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salempippin

i got this one wrong on the first try because i used "a" instead of "the." correct me if i am wrong but russian doesn't use articles, so why are you being so precise with something that can be imprecise in english? noticing a few things too where an english speaker (me) will leave out "that" in a relative clause and get marked wrong even though if it is part of an object, we can leave it out.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LifeLearn1

I agree it's very annoying - but those who've prepared this course are not native speakers - they've made soooo0 many mistakes with articles and verb tenses in the English translations.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/treilly

The Director hung the country's map near the train schedule--should be right?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndroidKanada

I think that sounds like an OK translation; they may simply not have thought of it. In fairness, "map of the country" would be much more common, probably because it doesn't connote ownership.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Morgan1039

It said that “the trains’ schedule” was incorrect, even though it’s more correct than the “correct answer” that’s given. I also believe that “the schedule of the trains” should be considered correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndroidKanada

Why was "principal" offered as a hover hint, and then marked wrong? I suspect it's actually an oversight, but it seems rude. Especially as a school seems a more likely place to be hanging maps and schedules than most executive offices. :)

A general note on hover hints: they should be helpful hints, not traps. If someone consults them, it's probably because they are genuinely stumped, or wondering which translations are going to be allowed. They should help the user move forward and learn.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/piguy3

Almost all hints are generated automatically based on what one might call "metadata" about translations of the words. I offer this statement not as an explanation of a missing translation here but to help explain why hints can be a particular source of inconsistency.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndroidKanada

OK, I do feel better knowing there isn't someone cackling at his computer. )))

As a user and as a software designer, I have to suggest there is some room for improvements in the heuristics (clearly the word "algorithm" would not be appropriate here). To start with, wouldn't it be better to generate the hints from the "rules" for accepting the user's translation?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ens5
  • 164

It may be just because they are more similar to English, but Swedish and Spanish Duolingo seem almost always to have some form of an accepted word included amongst the hints, while Russian very often doesn't. It would seem that in these other languages, maybe the metadata includes whether the word is being used as a noun or a verb, and likely what case and gender are involved (since very often the top hint is the correct form). It would be incredibly useful if in the answer in the Russian version, metadata of gender (which of 5), case (which of 6 or 7), and tense (of how many?) could be listed below the words in the answer. It would answer some huge fraction of the questions in these discussion sections, and would seem to need to be present in the question generators, since there seems to be quite a lot of variety in nouns or verbs chosen at random for various questions.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Letenebreux

For info, 'train timetable' in England.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AK-nsk

"the director hung the country's map near the train's timetable " what is so terribly wrong that Duo rejects it ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/piguy3

Whatever Duolingo's particular reason for rejecting it, "train's timetable" would be the timetable for a single train.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GregoryLCh

I'm sure Duo has some utterly bizarre reason for rejecting it, but the most sensible reason would be the use of train's. If you are going to use a possessive here it should be plural: trains'

On the other hand, the expression is actually "train timetable" and then even though train is singular it will refer to the schedule of trains.

But your version is already better than the one offered by Duo.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/piguy3

Given that the point of this course is to learn Russian, a translation indicating understanding of the Russian but in non-idiomatic English ("trains schedule") is, I would say, preferable to one that would permit an incorrect understanding of the Russian (via not distinguishing genitive plural from genitive singular).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sebool112

It has to be "a map of the country." Don't even ask...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sebool112

Just what is wrong with "the map of the country"? Duolingo keeps telling me answers with "a" are wrong, but when I use "the", it's wrong again. Who made this course??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LifeLearn1

'Who made this course??' - somebody whose English is very basic perhaps? :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SunnyOkapi

I said "the map... a trains schedule" and it wasn't accepted is there a reason?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sebool112

I also used "the map", and it wouldn't accept. I had to use "a map" and it finally accepted my answer. No idea why.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ray181324

I swapped the placement of "a" and "the" which I don't think should be incorrect, but I can see how DLs correct version might sound better. To me it seems only in context, it could be a,a or a,the or the,a or the,the tbh??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sebool112

Russian doesn't have articles, right? Literally any combination should be correct as far as I know.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/daniels_pa

"The director hung the map of the country near the trains schedule" is wrong but with a map is right. Seriously !?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Il-2

Why is "The director hung the map of the country near the timetable of trains" wrong, why is "the" necessary before "trains"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theron126

More likely we'd say "train(s) timetable". Your sentence is grammatically correct but a bit strange. You could report it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Il-2

Thank you, I had reported and my variant was accepted. Thank you for noting that my variant is strange, I'll try not to use such constructions.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salempippin

they marked me wrong on that, too. i put "a."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GaryColombo

Both "hanged" and "hung" are acceptable past tense forms of "hang" in American English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/piguy3

Only if the direct object is a person...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GaryColombo

Not for a typical US English speaker.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/piguy3

A typical adult US English speaker will not use "hanged" other than, potentially, to refer to hangings of people. I would agree that "hung" should be an acceptable informal variant to talk about execution by hanging. Confusing "hanged" for "hung" in standard American English would cause one to come across as sounding like a three-year-old. I apologize if this comes across as somewhat brusque, but it is simply the reality. Obviously I cannot speak to your local dialect, where it would seem the situation may differ, but you certainly do not speak for typical American English. As evidence to support this position, I reference the Corpus of Contemporary American English. "Hung" appears approximately 17 times as often as "hanged." I did not read the extracts for all 1136 occurrences of "hanged," but of the first 100 I think only two did not refer to an execution or suicide by hanging, and one of those was a metaphorical extension of that concept.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GaryColombo

Now that I've looked at the answer again, I have to agree with you. I think my problem at the time was over reacting to the odd prescriptions I've found in some of the Russian translations--things like "chief" instead of "head" programmer. etc.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salempippin

no "hanged" is only if someone is hanged by the neck in a noose.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/historic79

What's wrong with beside? What's wrong with timetable?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndroidKanada

You wrote "The director hung a map of the country beside the train timetable"? That's perfect English, but they may not have anticipated those words. Report it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndroidKanada

The original sentence now has each word linked to its definition! That's FANTASTIC!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alkajugl

In a previous exercise in this same lesson we had расписание занятий, which DL correctly translated "class schedule." It could also have been translated "schedule of classes," but definitely not "classes schedule." Here we have расписание поездов," which can be translated "train schedule" or "schedule of trains," but definitely not "trains schedule."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/navazeevi

Saying: map of the country is the same as saying: the country’s map


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jtaylor162

Ah, right! возле takes the genitive, so it's расписаниЯ.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Morgan1039

This is probably the worst question in the entire course.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Phil_Stracchino

Also, "near to the ..." should be accepted, and is not. Technically, "near the" is colloquial and not strictly correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/enricolevi

this sentence is by far too difficult at this level!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/yashamax

But you must remember that we are not all at the same level!

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