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"Is this for you or for your wife?"

Translation:Это для вас или для вашей жены?

November 17, 2015

89 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/person11281

I haven't come across the word «супруга» before, though it was listed as one of the correct answers: «Это для вас или для вашей супруги». Has anyone else come across this word?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MAVENfunBUPKIS

I just got a "wrong" answer because of that. Very irritating!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/elarue53078

Yep, me too. But yeah, now that I've read the discussion, I'm going to remember it, so I guess it's a good thing.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gaby754722

DuoLingo tends to do this. It's irritating, but I guess that no one will forget "супруги" again.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PolyJack

Nope, I still forgot it the second time around...

sigh


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gaby754722

Me too...I did this lesson several times before to chose the correct answer.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/detailaddict

I won't remember it until I have a chance to type it out in a sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dejo

I reported it because супруга translates as "spouse" not " wife" .


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VeraLinlin

Too much complaining... so what, it's a new word


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ColeDonnelly

The problem is that all of the people in this thread got it wrong because they weren't introduced to the word and were counted wrong because of it. They chose what they thought was the right answer and were counted wrong on no fault of their own.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mahankr

Do you need both для's? Can you just say Это для вас или вашей жены?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Elpitone

As polish is quite similar to russian I would give an explanation based on my language - we would translate this into: "To dla(для) was czy dla waszej żony?"("это для вас или для вашей жены?"). Let me tell you that "To dla was czy waszej żony"("это для вас или вашей жены") will be fully understandable in daily speech but not perfectly gramatically correct because "waszej żony"(вашей жены) means rather "your wife's" it's a statement of possesion. I hope y'all will understand this :P


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SpokeMnemosyne

Good question. Hope someone answers!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CheekyIdler

If you say "Это для вас или для вашей жены?" that will be "is it for you or for your wife?" but if you say "Это для вас или вашей жены?" that will sound more like "is it for you and/or your wife?", like there is an option that the thing might be for some third person. So I think it's better to use для two times. But usually you'll be understood anyway because of the context.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VeskoZhilov

Without the second "для" it contains a lot of uncertainty - it may be for you, it may be for your wife, it may be for both of you or for neither of you.

"Это для вас или вашей жены?" can be translated as: "This must be for you or maybe, for your wife... right?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JonquillaKedron

That's what I put, and it was marked incorrect.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DyoNon

Same question here. Would the first дла suffice?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VeskoZhilov

We (CheekyIdler and I) already responded to your question. 8 months later there's no third opinion, and CheekyIdler is Russian, I guess you can trust us.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/fathy_ar

Why is "это для тебя или твоей жены?" marked wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Patrick159815

I tried this too and got it wrong, i don't know why. I even tried это для тебя или для твоей жены?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alf-Sawman

Ideally you should repeat для, but I tested, and it's not accepted either. I suggest we report... :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/E-chan.

You are supposed to have the second "для" since the English sentence has two "for" here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kovkiru

2021.03.06. "Тебя" version still not accepted


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vera46548

Why is это вам или вашей жене Wrong? I was always taught that the dative case works just as well instead of для + род. падеж


[deactivated user]

    It's not wrong. If it's not accepted, please report it.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mahankr

    Which way would be more common?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vera46548

    Ok, thanks, I'll try and report it then.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alf-Sawman

    At least in this comment, you write жене rather than жены... :-)


    [deactivated user]

      Супруг is also in Bulgarian -- spelled съпруг, with ъ a pronounced vowel similar to the sound of 'у' or 'uh'. I was told by a Bulgarian language teacher that Жена means the woman of a man (as in a woman possessed by a man), rather than wife, for several Slavic languages, and implies cohabitation rather than marriage, and she proceeded to correct all instances of Жена in the textbook. I asked about this of a Russian, and the Russian denied it. Супруг and Супруга (Bulgarian Съпруга - sŭpruga) are indeed spouse (male) and spouse (female), but whether these are more polite and whether Жена has an extremely negative connotation, such that the teacher would feel compelled to correct the entire textbook may, depend on locale and regional culture, or generation of the speaker. She went so far as to point out that Жена can be used to speak about a prostitute. In any case, it is important when visiting a country to understand how such words as this may have colors of meaning that courses and textbooks may not teach.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VeskoZhilov

      I am Bulgarian and I can tell you that your teacher has just shared with you her own distorted (probably ideological) perception of the language which is far from how normal people use it. There are lot of things that are not correct.

      In Bulgarian, "жена" means "woman" in the first place, and it can also mean "wife" in informal speech. That's it, and I've been in a lot of regions in Bulgaria, there are no exceptions.

      "Моята жена" means "my wife" and "Жена ми" means ... (this is difficult) "the wife of mine" which happens to be the most common expression. Without these words though, "жена" by itself doesn't imply property. Also, "мъжа ми" (the husband / man of mine) implies property (or at least a bond) in the exact same way that "жена ми" does. "Децата ми" (the children of mine) does the exact same thing too. They are normal expressions that match the English meaning of "my wife, my husband, my children", and without the "my" part they don't imply property.

      Also, "жена и мъж" in Bulgarian doesn't imply cohabition rather than marriage. "Вие сте мъж и жена" ("You are a man and a woman") implies precisely marriage; "гадже" (a word that can mean boyfriend OR girlfriend just like "sibling" in English can mean brother or sister) is the word that doesn't imply marriage.

      The fact that she had to correct all instances of the word in the textbook can tell you a lot about what was really going on. "Жена" also cannot be used to speak about a prostitute, it's the most neutral word for a "woman" that there is. The only unusual use of a "woman" I can think of is "Станах жена" ("I became a woman") - when losing your virginity, which has its equivalent in "станах мъж" (I became a man) - but these aren't used anymore. Of course there are ways to insult women and to speak negatively about them, but classifying the very word for "woman" as an insult just... goes beyond anything one can imagine. One teacher with distorted views has given you a lot of false information.

      EDIT - P.S. It just occurred to me that in Bulgarian you can say "лека жена", literally "light woman" which means something like "easy girl" in English. But if we take the English example "easy girl", how can one infer that the word "girl" itself is insulting because of it is beyond me.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/E-chan.

      Historically жена was used in the meaning of "woman" in Russian too. You can see it in old texts and in poems. But these days жена in Russian only means "wife".


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/detailaddict

      This sentence demonstrates why I'm learning at a snail's pace with this program...short of copying the hints (which is what I did) I wouldn't know what form of "you" or "your" (or "wife") follows "for". Even if I remembered what case is called for I'd have to go back to a previous lesson to dig the correct forms out of the Tips and Notes because there haven't been enough exercises to practice using the personal pronouns (or any other given set of rules) so that I know them by now, which I should.

      I'm seriously considering going back to the beginning with a notebook and pencil and writing down the pertinent information in an organized format, so that I have it in front of me when I need it. But then I almost may as well go back to learning from a book.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LauraBlume

      Why does жены sound like жёны here?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alf-Sawman

      Likely because the voice is generated by machine interpretation of the text, and the word is matched against nominative plural rather than genitive singular (жёны vs. жены). The dots are "optional" in Russian...weren't originally there...


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/g_gabelopes

      Why are these two answers right? I didn't get the last one: "Это для вас или для вашей жены?, Это для вас или для жены?"


      [deactivated user]

        Russian uses the possessive pronouns much less often than English does.

        E.g. English people say 'to clean one's teeth', and Russians would never say this because you don’t usually clean anyone else's teeth. We also don't usually buy things for other people's wives (at least we don't call them wives if we do, we call them 'friends' or somethign), so you don’t really need a possessive pronoun here.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/g_gabelopes

        How awesome! It's gives me a totally new understanding :) Ty


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CookieMcCool

        Duolingo you know damn well you have never taught me the word супруги before, stop your cheating


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MattinMaverick

        Why is it pronounced Жёны?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LauraBlume

        I asked that three months ago and never got a response.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MichaelLou80247

        I think the pronuciation of жены ( sounds like жёны, which is the plural nominative form, and not the singular genitive form, as in the given instance)


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MattinMaverick

        You are right, the correct pronunciation is Жены, Zheniy. Жёны is the plural nominative form.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/detailaddict

        I thought an "or" sentence required two или's, implying "either...or"; and that a second дла would be implied, not required as long as "your wife" is modified correctly.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenYoung84

        I don't think the two languages are out of step here. If it's "either...or" then there are two "или"s, the second for/для can be omitted or not. These two things are independent.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IvanHarlok

        What's the difference between для and за?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenYoung84

        for has several meanings in English and not all of them translate to the same word in Russian. The main meaning is " to the benefit of", which translates to для and is the one used here.

        за seems to be used when "for" is part of a phrasal verb such as "thanks for", "be responsible for", "prepare for".


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alf-Sawman

        Examples:

        Это подарок для моего жены --> для as for (dedicated to) someone.

        Пожалуйста купите картошки дла супа --> для as for something as an ingredient or tool for a job or for a purpose...

        Я пишу за деньги --> за as for in the sense of return payment, favour etc. (I write for money, meaning it's what I do for a living.)


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Phil_Stracchino

        What is wrong with Это для тебя, или для твоя жену here?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenYoung84

        You need the genitive form after для, so it's для твоей жены.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Phil_Stracchino

        I think that was one of the forms I tried. I went through every singular-informal form I could come up with and not one was marked correct. It seems Duolingo simply does not accept any singular-informal answer here.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alf-Sawman

        You're right...keep reporting! :-)


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Miami_14

        это для тебя или вашей жены - was marked wrong


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenYoung84

        You need the forms of "you" to match. If you have тебя you need твоей, and if you have вас you need вашей.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ricojes

        what is preventing своей from being accepted?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CheekyIdler

        You can use своей if it is his action towards his wife/relative/property. For example "have you bought it for you or for your wife" - you could translate like ты купил это для себя или для своей жены - no problem, while in "is it for you or for your wife" "it" is the subject of the sentence and only "it" can own stuff that you could translate like свой


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Patrick159815

        это для тебя или для твоей жены? how come this isn't accepted? genitive right?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/E-chan.

        It is one of the accepted answers. Either you had a typo somewhere or there was a glitch.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Patrick159815

        I see. Ill have to check again when it comes up next time. Thanks


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AleksBobik

        Это тебе или твоей жене? Why is wrong?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenYoung84

        You haven't translated "for".


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AleksBobik

        But in the famous poem by Konstantin Simonov "Wait for me and I'll come back (Жди меня и я вернусь)" it is impossible to write in Russian жди для меня. Therefore, it all depends on the context.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VeskoZhilov

        You just don't "wait FOR" people in Russian (and in French, too). In both of these languages, it's "wait me". (In my Native language, too).


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenYoung84

        You can also use "await me" , which is a closer translation to those languages.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TomAntonso

        Except for opting for ты over вы what's up with this? "Это для тебя или твоей жены?"


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bugzzz6

        Would "это дла вас или дла своей жены" work?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VeskoZhilov

        It will not work. It's "для", not "дла", and more importantly, it's not "своей".

        You cannot use "свой", "своя" instead of "your" here because this is a question the purpose of which is to find out exactly if this is your wife. So you have to use "your" (твоей in singular or вашей in plural / polite form)

        The third problem is that you've confused the plural / polite you (вас) with the singular possession (своей, моей)

        If you want to use singular, you have to use it everywhere, like this:

        "Это для тебя или для твоей жены?"


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bugzzz6

        Ahh I see! Thank you for the response. So many rules!!!


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VeskoZhilov

        It's a very difficult language. On the Desktop version of the site there are grammar tips for each Russian exercise. They explain some of the rules (when to use "свой") for example, which is a word that doesn't exist in English. But on the smartphone version of Duolingo you cannot see the Russian grammar tips and it looks like it will stay this way because the Russian course is made by volunteers who don't have the same opportunities that an official team has.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Phil_Stracchino

        On the Desktop version of the site there are grammar tips for each Russian exercise.

        If you can find them.

        They explain some of the rules (when to use "свой") for example, which is a word that doesn't exist in English.

        Well, actually, I think it does. Consider: Следует всегда носить свою обувь, когда выходите. "One should always wear one's shoes when going out." The Russian свой, своя, своей, свою maps well to the English usage "one's", I think. I'm not sure what to call it — the impersonal pronoun? A pronoun referring to a general person only indirectly specified, but assumed by implication.

        Granted, almost nobody in the modern day ever uses it in everyday speech, but it exists. Just like overmorrow (послезавтра) and ereyesterday (позавчера). They are archaic and seldom used, but they exist.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenYoung84

        I don't think "one's" is all that similar. You can only use "one's" to refer back to the pronoun "one", so it doesn't have the versatility of "свой". Plus it doesn't help Russian doesn't have an indefinite personal pronoun. There really is no equivalent of свой in English.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VeskoZhilov

        That's interesting. But it doesn't map in all cases I think. You cannot say "YOU should come with one's wife and one's brother".


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenYoung84

        своей doesn't have to imply singular possession, it can work with мы, вы, они, etc.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VeskoZhilov

        But you still cannot say "Это для тебя или для своей жены?", right?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenYoung84

        I'm not actually sure, I'm not a Russian native speaker.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VeskoZhilov

        I confirmed with a native Russian speaker that things have to be in sync - "свой" with "себе" or "твой" with "тебе":

        "Ты взял это для себя, или для (своей) жены?"

        ("Have you taken this for yourself or for your own wife?")

        Or:

        "Это для тебя или для (твоей) жены?"

        ("Is this for you or for your wife?")

        ("своей" and "твоей" are in brackets because it is not mandatory to clarify whose wife it is)


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenYoung84

        That's great to have it cleared up. And I wouldn't have thought you could get себя and свой in the same sentence but you managed it.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bugzzz6

        Is взял required in that sentence?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VeskoZhilov

        As much as it is required in English. In English you wouldn't say "Is this for yourself?", you would say "Have you taken this for yourself?"


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Phil_Stracchino

        For some reason I don't have a reply link for Vesko's reply.

        Actually in English you would say exactly, "Is this for yourself (or for your wife)?" I cannot say that nobody would ever say "Have you taken this for yourself", but it would be an unusual sentence and I can't quite picture a situation in which one would naturally use it.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VeskoZhilov

        Well, in any case, in Russian you can't say "Это для себя или для своей жены?", you have to be more specific and clarify it like this: "Ты взял это для себя, или для (своей) жены?" And of course, what is important is that you're basically making the words "yourself" and "your own" match, like I said above.

        I confirmed this with the Native Speaker (my wife). I cannot tell you why this is. In my native language (Bulgarian) which is otherwise very different grammatically from Russian, we have the same word "свой", written in the exact same way, and used in the exact same way as it is used in Russian, and so I instinctively already know how and when it can be used. Unfortunately, I cannot tell you why. I can only try to rationalize it after the fact.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexPhysique

        это для вас или вашей жены - что не так?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VeskoZhilov

        Without the second "для" it contains a lot of uncertainty - it may be for you, it may be for your wife, it may be for both of you or for neither of you.

        "Это для вас или вашей жены?" can be translated as: "This must be for you or maybe, for your wife... right?"


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jihel5

        Hint says for you = вас. Result: marked wrong. Reported as very usual.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Linus422852

        So твоей is wrong, because why? Is it a ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ "respect" thing again?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/E-chan.

        Твоей is accepted. Just make sure that you use it in both places: Это для тебя или для твоей жены?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Linus422852

        OK, thank you. So you cant mix around words, it needs to be similar.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/E-chan.

        Well, it would be strange to change the level of formality mid-sentence, wouldn't it?

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