Polish has an update!
Apparently the TTS is already installed and working. It can't be long now!
Super! Mnie ten kurs raczej się nie przyda, ale miło by było zobaczyć jak inni uczą się polskiego :D
Dla mnie także chyba nie będzie szczególnie przydany, ale z niecierpliwością czekam na wyjście kursu. Świetnie, że inni będą mieli możliwość nauki polskiego, a dodatkowa złota sowa mi nie zaszkodzi... :)
No cóż, raczej nam się nie przyda, to fakt, ale ja też codziennie sprawdzam, jak tam nasza ekipa i mocno trzymam za nich kciuki. :) Nie wiem tylko, dlaczego się nie załapałam do naszego teamu chociaż wysłałam zgłoszenie jakiś czas temu... Ale nic to, ważne, że im dobrze idzie. :)
Ja nie wysłałam, bo pewnie i tak nie wejdę, może przy innej okazji ;)
a few letters here and there are a little different, but overall it's the latin alphabet.
It does indeed use the Latin alphabet - of course it uses it in a slightly different way from English, but that is pretty much the way it is.
BUT - if you haven't tried the Russian or Ukranian courses, you might be surprised to know that you can complete them both using a latin keyboard, because you can answer the questions in a special transliteration mode. It is not very hard to learn the alphabet of course, but it is much harder to learn a new keyboard layout.
I don't know if that option irks purists or not, but I think it is great that Russian and Ukranian can now be offered to people in a way that is more accessible to them, even if it is completely unconventional.
The problem, in my opinion, anyway, is that it won't be as much use to you if you can't read other things in the language without finding some transliteration thing that probably won't be perfect. Because almost everything in Russian is in Cyrillic. The keyboard, if you keep using it, gets easier and faster the more you do it. I can actually type спасибо in less than a quarter of the time it used to take me, without looking up anything, and I've only been using the keyboard for less than two weeks.
There isn't a 'problem' at all - it is providing access to the language without forcing the learner to start from a position of effective illiteracy. Once you know the basics, then learning the Cyrillic alphabet later becomes trivial, especially since it has a strong 1:1 correspondence with the spoken language. I've learned nearly a dozen different writing systems, I know very well that it is like trying to swim up a waterfall until you actually have some context of the spoken language first.
Throwing a completely new language and alphabet at people at the same time just isn't going to work for everyone. This is a way that a basic knowledge of Russian can be given to people in a less threatening way, so people who might not have bothered might give it a try. Can you really honestly say that is a problem?
Same with the keyboard, you can choose whether you want to learn the Russian keyboard layout or not, it is up to you, there is no point in forcing people to do it the 'proper' way. Some people are happier with the 'phonetic' Qwerty based keyboard layouts, especially since without keyboard labels you would have to memorise 40 key positions by trial and error. What if someone just wants to listen and understand Russian music or watch Russian TV, are you saying they should also have to be an expert typist before they can have the privilege?
What works for you isn't necessarily the be all and end all. Sometimes you have to teach people to swim in the shallow end. They tend to be less likely to drown that way.
Maybe "problem" isn't the right word to use, but I still think that it would be easier to learn the alphabet sooner rather later. Maybe people could phase it in gradually, looking at both. I actually learned the alphabet several months before I learned any Russian, and didn't find it difficult, but that might just be me, or the way it was explained, or some combination.
My point with the keyboard is that a little practice generally makes a big difference, and after using it for a short time with a picture or something to help, you learn to type almost as fast as you normally type English with a Qwerty keyboard.
Nice analogy. :) Everyone is different, and different things work for different people, but there are usually patterns and similarities.
Maybe I'm just one of the purists you talked about. :)
I did have to struggle within myself to reach this opinion though. I mean in the long term, it's not very useful to half know how to do something, and with languages that don't use the latin alphabet, knowing how to read and write them is usually a strong part of the appeal.
I don't have any Russian connections myself, I simply tried it one day because I was bored. I did two things, picked out a textbook from the library and stuck the entire Pimsleur course on my mp3 player (hah remember when they were a thing)
The textbook turned out to be totally useless for me, it was beating me to death with information from page 1. The audio course however was completely addictive, I had it on while I was working, cycling, walking, cooking, working out, whatever. It said 'do half hour a day', I think I was clocking more like 8 hours.
Then I ran out of lessons and had a hole in my life to fill, so decided to do German... then Dutch... then Swedish, hell why not. The addiction still hasn't worn off yet, I started collecting them wherever I found them, now I have a 16 GB stash and I never have an excuse to be bored again. That brings me to here...I just started the Ukranian course. Even just knowing the numbers and some basic words in Russian and I am hardly making an effort, yet I never got past the first chapter of that book...
Sometimes I think about that textbook. If I pick it up again now, maybe I will be able to complete it without getting a headache. Does that mean it is redundant?
I spend my whole day reading and writing, it is the only thing that keeps me occupied. But honestly from that experience, I do think that it is a double edged sword - it is one of the most important skills to gain, but it is also a crippling hindrance in the beginning.
Yes, the alphabet was what first attracted me to Russian. I remember when mp3 players were a thing! I must be old! :) I've also had some experience with Pimsleur (for French), but it always moved to fast for me. I'm not a fan of textbooks until I'm a little farther along and understand some of the rules, unless there is no other way I can learn the information. The only language that I would probably be willing to stick with it with a textbook is Polish, the rest I would probably give up eventually.
Maybe textbooks would be better if they weren't usually so boring. I know that I always preferred ones that had fun illustrations, pictures, and other things, over those that just had information and nothing else.
I'm not quite sure that I get what you mean by "redundant" there.
I agree. That's why I would either learn the alphabet first, and then go on and learn more after you're fairly proficient, or else phase it in slowly, looking at both Cyrillic and transliterations. After all, one of my favorite ways to learn was examining IKEA labels. :)
Yup! Though today... NONE LEFT WHOOP!
I should add that I studied Russian at uni (albeit a long time ago and haven't used it regularly in over a decade) so I tested out of the first 23 skills and a lot even further down the tree was revision of stuff I learned once upon a time. I did not start from scratch!
Thanks! And yes, it does. I've seen a few people genuinely starting from scratch and going great guns, and I'm seriously impressed. I'm sure I would still be scratching about at the first or second checkpoint without that.
Even the Ukrainian tree felt almost like a cheat when I completed it fast, because the two languages have so much in common! It will be really interesting to study a Slavic language which is not closely related to any I've tried before, and I suspect it would take me considerably longer to work through Polish even if I did just go full speed ahead, which I probably won't even attempt.
Partly because I really have about three phrases in Polish and I really do want to understand what I learn properly, and partly because I attempted to do that with the Esperanto tree when it first came out, which was only a couple of weeks after my blast through the Ukrainian tree, and even though Esperanto is an order of magnitude easier, attempting to do two trees at speed in quick succession... I know some people can do it, but it fried my brain entirely!
I'm one of those starting from scratch (except that I could already read Cyrillic, though not type it), but I haven't even finished Basics 2 yet. But I have the excuse of trying to study two other languages at the same time and not being a genius.
It sounds like you're Polish skills are fairly comparable to mine, except that I've learned some vocabulary words. So we might stay pretty even on that.
I couldn't even do one tree at that speed. Even if that was the only language I were learning, my brain doesn't learn things quite that fast. Especially the grammar, which is always my weak point. And I'd rather keep my brain uncooked. :-)
I don't know if I'd have a hope of doing any tree at that speed if it weren't for having prior knowledge (which is not strictly speaking true with Ukrainian, because I'd never studied it before, but Russian was kind of a huge cheat sheet!) or it being a simple and user friendly language like Esperanto. Several people went through the Turkish tree at high velocity and I just... there's no way I could process all that grammar so fast. Getting as far as I did was hard enough - not to mention dispiriting. It was a relief when Ukrainian came out, because Turkish was making me feel like a complete dunce.
I'm really excited for Polish to come out. I'll pretty much study any Slavic language <3 but there's a small but significant polish community in my town and quite a lot of Poles locally, so it'll be something I can actually use.
I am pretty sure there are things I'd be able to say in Polish that I wouldn't have a hope of writing accurately. I can say please and thank you and can I have some change? LOL. Oh, and hi! and goodbye! And love and hope. V random selection! But besides cześć dzenkuje miłość (and even those with the help of autocorrect, and I feel certain there should be a diacritic or two somewhere on thank you) I have no idea how to actually spell any of those things.
There are quite a lot of local Poles here too, so I'll be able to use my Polish too. :-)
How do you say "Can I have some change?" I've never seen that before. You spelled cześć and miłość correctly, and you did pretty well on dziękuję. It takes some practice, though. I only know how because those are some of the few things I've learned already. But I sometimes get lost on some the letters with accents and the combinations.
With the disclaimer that I learned this over a decade ago, and also that my spelling is going to be horrible even with the help of autocorrect: może izmenieć? Or something like that. Polish autocorrect doesn't recognise the second word well enough to change it into real Polish, so I've either remembered it wrongly or my spelling is just that bad! Either is possible...
I tried using google translate on that, and it got "can be", and its translation of "Can I have some change?" is "Czy mogę mieć jakieś zmiany?". But I have no idea if that's right or not. The other possibility would be both...
I strongly suspect the way I learned was a shorthand in the first place (approximating to something like 'is it possible to change' whilst proffering a note - I think colloquially it might amount of 'can one make change?'), and I have also almost certainly not remembered it entirely right, not enough to spell it in a way Google translate would have a hope of making sense of! I have a feeling I tried it on a Polish speaker at least once over the years, so what I'm saying makes sense on some level, but I don't have a hope of writing it accurately.
Maybe I'll have a go again when I've done some actual Polish...
I don't know. I suspect Google Translate is wrong, because it usually is wrong on long sentences unless they're very basic ones like "How are you". You might be right, for all I know, since that isn't the sort of thing I've learned yet.
Google translate is actually an awful lot better than it used to be... scary but true. I remember friends of mine making a banner (fortunately only a digital one that hadn't take long to make) to say they loved Russian... except it actually effectively said "I love the Russian man".
It's not bad for single words, and for translating the gist of something into a language you know, but it's not something I'd rely on.
Yes, much better, but still far from perfect. Trusting it for something long is a very bad idea. :-D
They might still have the Tips & Notes to write, the update doesn’t say anything about that. I was hoping to finish the Polish reverse tree before the direct tree comes out, so I guess I should hurry :-)
I can't wait. I'm so excited. :)
literally crying right now because I've been waiting for this course to be released for so long, I am too excited :)
I've been learning czech for a year now and since the czech tree won't be ready for a while, I think I'm going to start the polish tree as soon as it comes out! Polish and czech are part of the same branch and it can get confusing at times but I think I'm going to try it anyway. I'm so excited!!! =)
When it's available I'm gonna finish the whole tree in a month, I promise. I already speak intermediate Polish (funny, when the course entered the incubator I barely knew anything), and my speech comprehension is close to advanced.
Talking with my girlfriend mostly. Besides: Memrise, Utalk, Anki, Rosetta Stone, Michel Thomas Polish, Lang-8, tv series and movies (Wataha, Wszystko co Kocham) and podcasts.
Yay, I'll finally realize my polyglot dream (hopefully...). Just you wait Polish, I will learn you :P
Probably only pc for a while, until report numbers go down. That seems to be the usual pattern.
It won't be available for awhile (a month or so) but that's not too bad, you can access the website from your tablet/smartphone till then.
TTS stands for text-to-speech. It is an artificial tone manipulator - the voice that reads the words to you :)
Okay, so if you mean the text-to-speech program, then that is made by an separate company - not by Duolingo. They gain rights to use it. We cannot access that by ourselves.
If you mean the actual Polish course, that is also not available yet. But it should be released soon.
I hope you understand now :)
Where are you seeing that it was released in beta? I just checked and it still says 99%.
You're right. It's a 100% but not yet released. My bad, I've been waiting for a while for this course ;)
Me too, I have been learning Polish on my own for seven months and wish to improve my Polish and I think Duolingo will be just the place.
Let me know if you need any help from a native. I'm Polish :)
The reason I'm also waiting for this course is that I'd like my boyfriend to try learning Polish, and I think Duo will teach the basics very well. Contrary to popular opinion, it's not easy to pick up a foreign language from one's partner.