1. Forum
  2. >
  3. Topic: Russian
  4. >
  5. "We are ordering tickets for …

"We are ordering tickets for a classical music concert."

Translation:Мы заказываем билеты на концерт классической музыки.

November 18, 2015

99 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RandomTurmoil

I think the confusion comes from the fact that there are a couple different cases and declensions at play here. "Concert" is in the Accusitive form, since buying tickets "TO the concert" shows motion toward. This is why it's not prepositional.
And since concert is an inanimate object, the accusative mirrors the nominative. Thus, "концерт." On the other hand, "classical music" is in the Genitive case, since we're really saying the "concert OF classical music." Music is another noun, but this time in the genitive form. Thus, "музыка" becomes "музыки" (remember 7 consonants rule). And "classical" describes "music" (not concert), so genitive+feminine agreement means that классическая becomes "классической."

Hope this helps. Let me know if I'm off base.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/villajidiot

This is the correct reasoning.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/metaph

That sounds a good well-reasoned answer. However, I cannot leave unnoticed the irony that a music concert is not inanimate, unless in the case it is electronic music! Usually, the musicians should be alive and well, and so should be the music ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Chiffewar

Why is it на концерт, not на концерте?


[deactivated user]

    Well, because tickets are to be used to get to the concert (i.e. it's a destination of some kind), and not to be used during the concert.

    It's not the most logical usage, you might just remember that you use на + accusative in such cases.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nihaoearth12

    So is that including this case? Is concert in accusative?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/saxmund

    It's just like in English, you can say "a ticket to the concert"


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Miami_14

    if this is accusative after "на", why "и" ending in "музыкИ? Shouldn't it be "музыку"?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenYoung84

    I've already answered this question for you below Powalo. "classical music concert" in Russian gets rearranged to "concert of classical music", and putting "of" before a word means it should be genitive case, which is what happens here.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Miami_14

    Thank you so much Ben. Now I am working too much and come to DL in the evening or night and sometimes I find my self too tired. I truly appreciate your help


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SagarApshankar

    Is it wrong it we put concert at the end?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenYoung84

    I'm not a native speaker but I'd say that's highly unlikely.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/susanashe

    sorry but this makes no sense. To be used to get to the concert but not during the concert? Please!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenYoung84

    I think what's meant is that the ticket is for entry to the concert area, so there's your transition/motion. Once you're in the concert area it's defunct.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GBPiranesi

    Илшшшшллббдьщббд


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kauedg_

    Still easier than здравствуйте


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JanetGidle

    Я сгласно. still confused.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/big_jiggins

    Because you're not actually buying the tickets AT the concert, but the concert is where you're trying to go. You'd use the prepositional case if you wanted to say "мы заказываем билеты в концерте" (we order tickets at the concert)


    [deactivated user]

      You’re right, but I’d use another preposition here: «на конце́рте», not «в». «В конце́рте» sounds unnatural to my ear in this context.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndrewFerg16

      What is wrong with the word oder of "Мы заказываем билеты на классической музыки концерт" for this sentence?


      [deactivated user]

        It sounds really weird. When the genitive refers to another noun, we usually put that noun first and then the genitive. Unless you're writing poetry, I'd suggest you avoid the word order of «класси́ческой му́зыки конце́рт».


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndrewFerg16

        Thanks for explanation!


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/yadwinder_gadari

        I was thinking about that too ?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenYoung84

        You have to realise that "music" is a noun and that while we say "classical music concert", it's really shorthand for "concert of classical music" ("classical music concert" sort of goes against the basic grammar rules where you don't put two nouns next to each other, this is an exception).

        A general rule for translating into Russian and most other languages is to use the version of the English sentence that has "of", if that's possible. Then the Russian word order for these situations is the same as English, except that instead of adding "of" before words, Russian uses the genitive case.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/metaph

        Although I am not an English native-speaker, I don't think "classical music concert" goes actually against any grammar rule. It is actually using nouns in an attributive function, something one may find in other languages as well. That is basically the same structure of expressions like "work ethics" (instead of "ethics of work"), "Church music" (instead of "music of Church"), "book writing" (instead of "writing of a book"), "finances management" (instead of "management of finances"), "worldview" (instead of "view of the world"). It is a synthetic structure, that may cause perplexity to one unfamiliar with it, but very clear once you recognize and understand it. The important thing is that its word order treats the attributive nouns as if they were adjectives (before the main noun), while in Russian they would use instead genitives after the main noun.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/metaph

        I would add that the English structure "classical music concert" is using two nouns (classical music) in an attributive function, that is, like adjectives. In English, such attributives come before the noun, much like a normal adjective. Russian does differently, in this case, using genitive, instead, thus «концерт классической музыки» (concert of classical music). Genitives, in Russian, are not treated as adjectives, as regards word order, even though some of them might describe attributes of a noun.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/anna4111

        Actually it's only one noun. 'Classical' is an adjective. Sorry to nit-pick. Just pointing it out in case anyone is confused by your explanation.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenYoung84

        I think metaph meant to say (music concert).


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/richard547513

        Just dropping this here for the next time I come across this and wonder how it works. We are ordering tickets for (going to therefore accusative) a concert of (genitive) classical music. Classical is referring to music which is feminine therefore it takes feminine ending ой.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DanisTerzi

        Why can't we just say "Мы заказываем билеты на классический концерт"?


        [deactivated user]

          This sounds less natural to my ears. However, I'm not a big fan of classical music and I'm not very good at musical terminology, so maybe we should listen to people who are.


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Helge.
          • 1293

          Could you use для instead of на?


          [deactivated user]

            I think «биле́ты для конце́рта» sounds odd in this sentence.

            «Для» can be used to describe a person for whom you're buying tickets: «биле́ты для ма́мы» 'tickets for Mum'.

            Also, «биле́ты для конце́рта» sounds OK when tickets are used for organising the concert. For example, «Я напеча́тала биле́ты для конце́рта» 'I've printed tickets for the concert' sounds OK.


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenYoung84

            билеты для концерта means tickets to the benefit of the concert.


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Claudio_IT

            What is the form and declination of "классической" here? Thanks


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JeanetteSa7

            It is the genetive feminine of классический.


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IntegrationAsh

            Do we have to include the Мы? My answer was otherwise identical and was not accepted.


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Matt.Lacrosse

            My question, too. This was rejected:

            Заказываем билеты на концерт классической музыки.


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pulzu

            Is music ever declined in the plural? I'm assuming музыки used here is the genitive singular.


            [deactivated user]

              Yes, it's genitive singular.

              Just like most uncountable nouns, plural can be sometimes used to mean 'kinds of music'. For example, you can find this usage in a well-known Zemfira's song «Хо́чешь»:

              Хо́чешь в мо́ре с паруса́ми? 'Do you want [to go] into the sea under sails?'
              Хо́чешь му́зык но́вых са́мых? 'Do you want the newest kinds of music?'
              Хо́чешь, я убью́ сосе́дей, 'Do you want me to kill me the neighbours
              Что меша́ют спать? 'that disturb our sleep?'

              However, such usage is pretty rare.


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sTbX4

              There is a bug here, I think. I had no option to add the word "музыки", but the answer can't pass without it.

              Correction: I realized later that zooming out in my browser view revealed an additional row of word options. The issue wasn't a missing word, but a problem with CSS/responsiveness to screen size.


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MZb86Lqh

              Russian features grammar similar to old-fashioned German and it makes me very happy. Wir bestellen Karten für ein Konzert klassischer Musik.


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenYoung84

              Is that old-fashioned German because it uses the genitive instead of a preposition? I find this really fascinating.


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nadine380636

              I really don't get the endings in this one. It's мы заказываем билеты на концерте in the other exercise, isn't it? Why not here? And before i had a sentence with классическая музыка, now it's ой and и...i understand the explanation but why has it been ая-а before? I wish i could go back to look at the other sentence to see the difference.


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenYoung84

              The other sentence was на концерт. You would only use на концерте for "at the concert".

              классическая музыка is nominative and классической музыки is genitive (both are feminine). The genitive is required here because English sentence can be written as "concert of classical music" - adding "of" before a word(s) is one way that English does the genitive.


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/StevenWils941983

              Anyone can help? "на концерт классической музыки." and not "на классической музыки концерт" ?


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenYoung84

              classical music concert is a word order that works in English but not other languages. It breaks the grammar rule that you don't put two nouns (music concert) next to each other. The other way of expressing this in English is "concert of classical music" and that's the way it's expressed in Russian ("of" converts the following words to genitive).


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/H6GwX2NN

              I'm glad I'm not the only one having difficulty with this one !


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/yadwinder_gadari

              Is "Мы заказываем билеты классического музыкалного концерта. " correct ?


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenYoung84

              It comes out as "We are ordering a classical musical concert's tickets" which I think you'll agree doesn't make sense.


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shani.gorm

              Мы заказываем билеты на классической концерт. Can a concert be classical?


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenYoung84

              Your sentence needs to use классический (masculine accusative singular)


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Karen852780

              билеты is not a choice is the balloon words offered. Please fix.


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/susanashe

              I thought на was followed by the Prepositional case. So why not концерте


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenYoung84

              на is a preposition like в where it is either prepositional or accusative depending on whether there is any motion/transition involved.


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Miami_14

              why классическОЙ музыкИ? is this genitive


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenYoung84

              Exactly, it's genitive because it's tickets to a concert "of classical music".


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Miami_14

              How can we know whether to use Genitive or Prepositional after на?


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Luka796506

              What makes "музыки" here end with an и I forgot


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Miami_14

              how do we know this has to go in genitive case? how to know на doesn't call for prepositional case right after but genitive?


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/QurtQurt

              Мы заказываем билеты на классику. - This sounds natural.


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Miami_14

              "Музыки" is in genitive and it ends with "И" just because of the seven letter spelling rule right? (after velars or hushes never ы only и)


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Miami_14

              what case is in the end for классической музыки? if this is accusative shouldn't it be классическую музыку?


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stephen-Ruski

              Why can't концерт go at the end of the sentence?


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheFinkie

              When a noun (concert) is described by another noun (classical music) it is placed after it in genitive case. This can be compared to saying in English: "concert of classical music".

              If you switch the words around, you are basically saying "we are ordering tickets to an of classical music concert", which doesn't make sense in either language.


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stephen-Ruski

              Why can't you put концерт at the end of the sentence. It makes perfect sense, and my native speakers say it would be fine.


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenYoung84

              TheFinkie has answered this very well above. Why would you expect this word order to make sense in Russian when it doesn't in English?


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Michael827661

              Why is it музыки?


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenYoung84

              Try reading the other comments.


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Poxadas

              Could somebody explain the difference between для (+gen.) and на (+acc.)?


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenYoung84

              If you want to understand all the nuances it's very complicated. But most of the time на translates as on(to) or in(to). If it has the (to) meaning then the next word is accusative, otherwise it's prepositional.

              для translates as "for" with its most usual meaning which is roughly "to the benefit of".

              So in this case, the English sentence includes the word "for" but it doesn't mean "to the benefit of" does it, we're not buying tickets to help the concert. But it could be rewritten as "...tickets into a classical music concert" with basically the same meaning, so then на (+ accusative) becomes a viable option.


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zeusdefier

              Why is 'для' rather than 'на' unacceptable here?


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenYoung84

              Try reading the other comments on this page.


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Avi117675

              That's how I wrote 3 times in the row and it is not accepted. Why?


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenYoung84

              The most likely thing is that you made a mistake. If you copy an answer and paste it here we can see whether it was correct or not.


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/H6GwX2NN

              I've moved on so do not include me in any more comments about the spelling and grammar of this particular point. The only reason I queried it was because I was blocked and could not get onto the next level, so I skipped it !


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheFinkie

              Feel free to unfollow the discussion if you no longer wish to get notifications on it.


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/titaniumbubble69

              Sometimes when a verb acts on the object, the object is moved before the verb. А Почему не "мы билеты заказываем на концерт классической музыки"


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/emmanuelanajao

              What is the difference between "dlya" and "na"?


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LKusdemir

              Please look above comment. Explanation is great.


              https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Amine558235

              Why they considered Мы заказываем билеты на концерт музыка классической incorrect? Is there anyone who can explain this to me please?


              [deactivated user]

                There are two problems with your version:

                \1. Му́зыка vs. му́зыки. Russian nouns have several forms called cases. «Класси́ческой му́зыки» is gentive case, roughly equivalent to the English preposition ‘of’. So, «конце́рт класси́ческой му́зыки» is ‘the conert of the classical music’.

                Му́зыка is the nominative case. It’s used for the subject of the sentence, the thing/person being described or doing the action, e.g. «Музыка очень хорошая» ‘The music is very good’. In this sentence, мы is the nominative-case form, because we are ordering the tickets. The form му́зыка is out-of-place here.

                \2. Word order. Normally, adjectives precede the nouns they modify in Russian: класси́ческая му́зыка ‘classical music’, хоро́шая пого́да ‘good weather’, зла́я ве́дьма ‘evil witch’, се́рая жа́ба ‘gray toad’, etc.

                There are some exceptions to this rule. For example, adjectives that don’t change their forms follow nouns: цве́т ха́ки ‘khaki colour‘ (this includes comparative degree of most adjectives: руба́шка побо́льше ‘larger shirt’). Adjectives can follow nouns in poetry and songs (e.g. дуб зелёный ‘green oak’), or in formal classifications (полоте́нца бума́жные ‘paper towels’).

                But in this sentence, inverted word order sounds strange and unnatural.


                https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stephen-Ruski

                You can put the word концерт at the end, this should not be incorrect.


                https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenYoung84

                I highly doubt that's acceptable in Russian.


                https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Miami_14

                why after концерт is genitive?


                https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PamelaRevier

                The first time around, my answer was designated incorrect, and you have me a configuration, which I noted and used when the question came up again. My answer was STILL designated incorrect. This is not the first time this has happened. If we are supposed to learn the correct sentence structure, you need to be more consistent.


                https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alexandra78432

                The hint shows it's supposed to be "музы" instead of "музыки" and I got my sentence wrong because of that! >_


                https://www.duolingo.com/profile/H6GwX2NN

                I have written the answer correctly after several failed attempts to get the spelling right, but it persists in telling me my answer is incorrect.


                https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ewa778814

                Мы заказываем билеты на концерт музыки классической. could be as well


                https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GBPiranesi

                ррздррдлбддшдРщиэжржзжбьл


                https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GBPiranesi

                ипмппппппбмтшш


                https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ValentinSe14370

                I have to know "which word" is wrong?


                https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ValentinSe14370

                No, I did not make a mistake. I wrote exactly as you did.


                https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ValentinSe14370

                Sorry, I cannot find any mistake. Tell me which word is wrong? If you don't tell me, I can not learn Russian.


                https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ValentinSe14370

                I had the same problem yesterday. I wrote yesterday and today exactly the same as shows your translation above. Something is wrong here. Please, tell me what kind of mistake I've done? I cannot continue the course if you do not tell me what kind of a mistake I've done. I want to know, where I made a mistake? I cannot find it.


                https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenYoung84

                No one on this forum page knows what your answer was. If you believe your answer was correct but not accepted then you should use the report button. If you want to discuss your answer on the forum then you should copy and paste it here.


                https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_Polimata_

                Justamente sali de un concierto , concierto para violin y orquesta de Beethoven.


                https://www.duolingo.com/profile/b2bwildman

                Why do i get this question as the only question i have to write out in Russian. There are too many long words in this sentence and it is taking me 10 minutes to write out the sentence correctly

                Learn Russian in just 5 minutes a day. For free.