https://www.duolingo.com/Shanow22

Could Ireland ever become bilingual nation with the majority fluent in both Irish/English?

Shanow22
  • 10
  • 9
  • 8
  • 6
  • 6
  • 4
  • 2
  • 2
  • 2

I'm from Kerry, where I was exposed to quite a lot of Irish and now I live in Galway where Irish is also spoken by quite a sizeable minority. But whenever I go to the midlands or Dublin, unless I were to look for Irish speakers, Gaelgoirs seem nowhere to be found. In my opinion, English, as a major global language, is here to stay. But many countries, such as Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Iceland, India and many African countries seem to be able to converse rather fluently in their native tongue as well English? Could this ever be achieved be Ireland in your opinion? Currently only 7% of Irish people are fluent in Irish with half living in Gaeltacht areas, so I'm sceptical.

2 years ago

51 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
scilling
  • 25
  • 1504

The difference between Ireland vs. Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Iceland, India, and many African countries is that the speakers of Norwegian, Swedish, Danish, Icelandic, and the plethora of Indian and African languages didn’t become a minority of the population. A closer analogue to Irish speakers in Ireland might be the Sami peoples of Lapland (stretching across portions of Norway, Sweden, Finland, and Russia) or the aboriginal peoples of North America and Australia; how much or how little are their languages being used compared to Norwegian, Swedish, Finnish, Russian, English, French, and Spanish? If some of these minority languages are thriving, why do they thrive, and could the same methods used for assuring the health of these languages be used in Ireland for Irish?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SteveLando
SteveLando
  • 24
  • 20
  • 19
  • 18
  • 15
  • 15
  • 13
  • 13
  • 12
  • 11
  • 10
  • 10
  • 9
  • 9
  • 9
  • 8
  • 8
  • 7
  • 7
  • 6
  • 6
  • 6
  • 5
  • 5
  • 5
  • 4
  • 4
  • 3
  • 3

It is not impossible but would need a people movement and people with strong pathos for the language, using the language public, virily in the society, teaching irish as the first and most natural/important language, and english only as the second.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/galaxyrocker

Honestly, probably not. The Gaeltacht areas are getting weaker by the day, and, while Gaelscoil attendance is increasing, most of those don't have a firm grasp on the language and don't use it much outside school. Furthermore, there's really no government support for using the language, anyway. Even in the Gaeltacht, most things done with the government is through English. And if it's bad there, it's worse elsewhere in the country.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Eikoopmit

Hebrew was a dead language for ages before it was revived; if the Irish government can apply the same tactics with Irish I honestly don't see why this can't happen. Of course, what happened with Hebrew was likely mostly luck, but regardless, it may be able to be replicated. In fact, Irish has a slight advantage over Hebrew in this regard because it's not dead yet.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Knocksedan

Hebrew was revived in a situation where they needed a lingua franca anyway, as people were immigrating without a common language.

The political commitment and fervour surrounding the development of a new state can be a big factor in language revival - the revival of the Irish language was a significant part of the nationalist movement 100 years ago, but in the long run, Irish wasn't able to overcome the inertia of English.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Eikoopmit

In that case mayhaps North Ireland could provide the solution to the dying language, if the UK were to decide to forfeit their claim on those particular counties.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Knocksedan

At the risk of annoying some of the younger members of the audience, let me make it quite clear that it is the policy of both the Irish Goverment and the UK Government that the UK will not "forfeit their claim" to Northern Ireland unless and until a clear majority of the population of Northern Ireland are in favour of that, and public opinion polls on that issue persistently show that that is no more likely to happen now, or in the foreseeable future, than it has been at any time in the last 100 years. Sectarian headcounts don't reflect the reality that a significant portion of the people who would normally be counted as "nationalist" are quite happy to see the status quo persist. If anything, support for a withdrawal from Northern Ireland is probably higher in England than it is in Northern Ireland - it would certainly be financially advantageous for taxpayers in the rest of the UK if they didn't have to support Northern Ireland. (Leaving aside the issue of support for such a move in the Republic itself, which can best be summed up as "Yes, but not yet").

So it's probably best to leave political wishful thinking (to use as neutral a term as possible) out of any discussion of the revival of the Irish language. The revival of Irish in Belfast in particular was very much tied to republicanism, but there is a fairly deliberate policy to separate the language from politics these days - it has to be attractive to people on both sides of the political divide to continue to grow.

And the issue of whether the Irish language "movement" (such as it is) in the Republic would ever cede control to "Northern influences"? I don't think that's likely.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/AnLonDubhBeag

Although my basic impression is that children today are less negative toward the language than when I was in school, I would view as almost impossible to achieve at this stage. Even in the Gaeltacht it's often only the older generation who really have a proper command of the language.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/belridetulo
belridetulo
  • 22
  • 19
  • 15
  • 15
  • 14
  • 14
  • 13
  • 13
  • 12
  • 10
  • 10
  • 9
  • 7
  • 7
  • 7
  • 6
  • 6
  • 5
  • 4
  • 4
  • 2
  • 2

there's only one way- Irish should be the sole official language of the Irish Republic

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/pulchrae

It is possible. I live in Pamplona, very close to the Basque Country region. The Basque government has taken measures to revive their language in areas that had forgotten it, and to promote it everywhere else in their region. All of these programs have been quite a success. You can meet people who only speak Basque when they're at home.

If the Irish government cares about Gaeilge, they should send a team of people to the Basque Country and learn from them. Never say never.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Knocksedan

The problem isn't really the technical ability to achieve such an end, the problem is the lack of a motivating factor that would actually encourage people in Ireland to speak the Irish that so many of them have. Ireland is a thoroughly anglophone country, our status as an English speaking country is touted as one of the reasons for our success in attracting Foreign Direct Investment, the UK still remains our largest trading partner, and the destination for the majority of those people who leave Ireland to pursue other opportunities., British newspapers and TV stations are widely available and availed of in Ireland, etc. Irish people don't see any need to adopt a different language to differentiate themselves from the British - unlike the Basque Country (and now Catalonia), Nationalism is no longer a sufficient motivating factor to stimulate more widespread adoption of the Irish Language. Maybe if modern language learning tools had been available 100 years ago (and there hadn't been a Civil War, and persistent emigration), the revival of the Irish language would have made more progress when the new State was formed, but that particular motivation is now past it's sell-by-date.

And I think that that's really the issue - unfortunately, there is no obvious reason why Irish people would begin to speak more Irish in their daily lives.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/proinsias123

I would have thought that saving an important part of your culture and history from extinction would provide all the necessary motivation. I bet if the government awarded €1000 euro to those who became fluent, the language wouldn't long being saved. Laziness I think it is.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Knocksedan

I would have thought that saving an important part of your culture and history from extinction would provide all the necessary motivation.

You might be right - but you're starting from the assumption that Irish is "an important part of ... culture and history". If the general public agreed with you on that particular point, then Irish wouldn't be in the perilous state that it's in.

As for paying people to learn the language, if you were successful, you'd have to raise everyone's taxes by a similar amount to get the money to pay the bounty in the first place!

As it is, bonus points for doing exams in Irish, "the grant" in the Gaeltacht and other such incentives have all been in place for a long time, and are as likely to generate resentment against Irish among those who can't qualify as they are to provide an incentive.

There is a not insignificant cohort of the public who are resentful of Irish. They will actively resist any moves that might be construed as favouring Irish speakers at their expense. They will take offense if bi-lingual speakers "exclude them" by speaking Irish in their presence, so the weaker language must yield the public sphere to the stronger language. So apart from the natural reluctance of people to make foolish mistakes in a language that they don't have much practice in, you also have the reluctance of people to cause conflict with people who don't or won't speak the language. The massive changes in the makeup of the Irish population in the last 20 years complicates this even further. 20 years ago, you could be sure that 90% of the people that you encountered in retail environments, for example, would have learned some amount of Irish in school. That's not the case any more, so any campaign to revive the Irish that people learned in school has to be careful that it isn't seen as deliberately excluding immigrants.

There are no simple solutions. Unless someone comes up with a technique to allow anyone to learn fluent Irish in a week, the perceived barriers to speaking Irish will always outweigh the perceived benefits, unfortunately. There will always be people who come back to Irish for their own personal reasons, but I can't think of any obvious way to increase that number significantly.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/dquedenfeld16

Actually, if I am correct most people in Ireland are in favor of a revival of the language, statistically speaking. I don't remember the number but if I can find it I will post it, I believe it was upwards of 70%

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Knocksedan

We're very fond of our pious aspirations, so we are.

70% of people are in favour of other people speaking more Irish :-)

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/dquedenfeld16

Well I do understand that. Everyone would like to say that this is what should be done but not willing to do it. But I do think that a revamped Irish revitalization program could still be met with far more success, even given the present failures of the schools to teach it. The newest generations haven't lived through that schooling method, haven't developed the disdain-in some cases- that others have developed for their ancestral language. For those who haven't yet been through that schooling, it is not too late to start change now.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Shanow22
Shanow22
  • 10
  • 9
  • 8
  • 6
  • 6
  • 4
  • 2
  • 2
  • 2

hahaha perfectly put!

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mazzaru

I think it could, promoting bilingualism is important. Everyone coming to ireland to live are bilinguals (mostly) only the irish are monolingual in ireland. Everyone know their native language + english. We live in an island we are quite dependent on english to survive unfortunately. over a billion people speak english. We need to put the day to day life in irish all the road signs should be english free. if you own a shop change the articles tags to irish for example. People who are fluent should research computer projects to add a gaeilge version to major softwares. Shops should have more gaeilge material like little things receipts/exit signs/welcome signs/directions/information desk etc... And also people who are not irish and are motivated to learn through duolingo or other platforms, they can show to irish people that they are missing out their own heritage. The famous irish accents are not coming from the english language, they coming from the gaeilge of your ancestors in your counties. You have gaeilge in you it's just that you've been told to forget it.

Wouldn't be great to have a Spanish chap a french fella and an english mate in a pub speaking gaeilge in front of a irish audience ? even if you have little proud in your country that would get your beamish warm and be like "wtf is going on they're not even irish and and...".

look here, in duolingo 1.1 million people attempted to learn irish.. this is huge interest in this so called dying language. Irish people are well known all over the world and so many times confused for english fellas because of the language they use that is such a shame you wouldn't confuse a french fella from a german one by the way they speak would ya ?. I think we need to get the finger out the ass and start acting on basic actions, think about it we have everything to make it happen don't wait for a government to act, they do nothing unless they can make money out of it. Ask your farmer markets to put irish names for veggies, meat, craft etc.. little things spreading coming from you, use the internet use your knowledge of this country to hit were it counts. Look at your friends are they motivated ? have they businesses ? what ideas do they have ? look at clisare channel on youtube she put funny videos speaking irish, from her little 25yo she just saying "it's is for the love of the irish language" with over 300k views that is inspiring, what about the rest of us ?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
scilling
  • 25
  • 1504

all the road signs should be english free

Which grouping of political parties in coalition would have a mandate to replace the vast majority of road signs throughout the country? What do you believe the Irish electorate would think about the cost of such a project?

People who are fluent should research computer projects to add a gaeilge version to major softwares.

This is a ROI (return on investment) issue; which major software packages could earn enough money on sales of a version as Gaeilge to pay for the Irish localization?

Shops should have more gaeilge material like little things receipts/exit signs/welcome signs/directions/information desk etc.

If the receipts are hand-written, this would be possible if the person at the counter knows Irish. If the receipts are register-printed, then the point-of-sale software would have to support Irish (which goes back to the ROI issue above). Signs on a door shouldn’t be too expensive; neon signs in a window would be. Directions would be an unusual item to have in a shop, since one would need to find one’s way to the shop to be able to pick up a copy of the directions. ;*) An information desk would need an employee with sufficient skill in Irish to answer questions.

Irish people are well known all over the world and so many times confused for english fellas because of the language they use

I don’t think that I’ve heard an Irish person who sounds like an English person, short of that Irish person trying to sound English (e.g. Pierce Brosnan in certain roles). Would you give an example of a well known Irish person who sounds English?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mazzaru

I have no time for the electorat, they would laugh at this because they don't see the necessity, they don't care, they are happy the way it is they are hypocrites who want to keep control of what's going on and prefer talking about new ways to lay taxes. The dialogue is not with the politicians the dialogue is between people.

By major softwares I am talking for open source softwares Linux/Libre Office/Firefox/Chrome/Thunderbird/VLC/GIMP etc... (by the way all those programs are available on MAC or Windows machines) what about androids apps ?

even google has it's page in Gaeilge they done it without being a big deal, they didn't wait for irish people to have a say about the matter, they just done it. why would they bother ? everyone knows irish people speak english why going to the trouble of making google page gaeilge for 40k people ? may be it's because they see language has being more important that a flag or a government it's part of people identity, it shapes your tongue your thinking and we know google likes thinkers. the way of thinking "why doing it if there is no money in it" will bring nothing, that root is rotten you can't think like that to solve this issue that's why electorate is a cul de sac and that's why in 2015 we are stuck do you rely on money to save a language ? wrong end to me.

Well yeah if a demand in irish speakers was going to rise from the work market I am sure we would see more people investing their time and effort to learn it, irish or not.

I am living abroad now and the minute you speak english people think you are english. most people don't do accent differenciation. you speak english fluently then you are english or american. it takes time to tell common people that you are not, but still because you speak english you are very closly related to them, even if you say you are irish they think it's somehow part of england. The language you speak makes your origin for most people. People don't go throughout the history of Ireland why would they, you do (it's your responsibility has an irish citizen to speak irish, it's not about money). then comes this redundant conversation about what actually english have done back in the days to irish people and Eire and why .. blablabla and then we are stuck again with this english affiliation. And some people ask the question: "so why don't you speak your native language why don't you speak irish ? that's weird " everyone else speak their native language but yee guys are not speaking it.. ??

the island of corsica has been french for hundreds of years after the WWII people were speaking mainly french, monolingual corsicans died off in the 80's the language was in decline until the 90's. ring a bell ? Yet now corsican is part of bilingual everyday life and people are keeping it alive only 10% of the population can't speak it. A lot of corsicans speak their native language in pubs and at home with family. The scenario is similar to ireland but in the other direction a lot of people speak it because they know how important there culture is. They painted the road signs them self to leave just the corsican. look at the wikipedia page for corsican language it's very interesting to see the similarities with Ireland, it's a situation that occurs to other parts of the world it's not just Ireland, how people are handling it ?

I don't come here with "out of the box solutions" but I am concerned and look at what could be done in a small scale. Big scale is irrelevant to me. change only appears within yourself and lead by examples. Start there.

You are an english teacher ? go the opposite direction challenge yourself and reverse the process be the change you want to see. Ho...of course..you have kids/mortgages/work duties, reality check kicks back in your brain...then stay there don't do it if you think having all those "things" stop you, find something else get your kids involve start to write emails in gaeilge to your bank I don't know have games in the pubs, I don't know jaysus I am sure with some time and effort we can come up with lots of ideas ^^

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/TheRatiocinator

I have to agree with scilling about the accents. In America at least we do make a distinction between Irish and English accents (although most people are unaware of the political distinctions between Northern Ireland and the Rep. of Ireland).

Also, a question for you, mazzaru. Is my native language really English if I'm descended from Europeans? Should my native language be the Native American language originally spoken in my area? Don't get me wrong, I would love to see a Gaeilge revival. This is just something to think about.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mazzaru

yep I see well the great thing about it is that we have the choice that our ancestors didn't have.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Knocksedan

As an Irishman who has lived in the US, I can tell you that there are plenty of Americans who have no idea that my accent is from Ireland. They know that I have an accent, and they know that it's not the accent that they hear as a "British accent" on TV (there are 10's of millions of British people who speak with an accent that most Americans won't have encountered either) but beyond that, they can't really say. I have what I would call a neutral Irish accent - a lot of Irish people now speak without many regional identifiers in their accent, so you can't réally tell what part of Ireland they're from, but it is not readily identifiable to a lot of Americans, unless they have encountered other Irish people. Irish accents, when they do show up on TV in the US, are often "turned up a notch" to make them more obvious (Hiya, Saoirse!).

By the way, the lack of knowledge of where my accent is from never caused any problems in the US, where people from Britain are generally viewed positively (even if the villains on the TV often have British Accents :-). But any Irish person who has ever visited France will tell you that it helps to identify yourself as Irish rather than English :-). And the French often can't tell from the accent.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
scilling
  • 25
  • 1504

I have no time for the electorat, they would laugh at this because they don't see the necessity, they don't care, they are happy the way it is they are hypocrites who want to keep control of what's going on and prefer talking about new ways to lay taxes. The dialogue is not with the politicians the dialogue is between people.

But it’s exactly the vast majority of the Irish electorate who you’re trying to get to speak Irish — and you have no time for what they think? The politicians are the ones who would decide on a mass road sign replacement policy, and the people are the ones who decide which politicians will be able to make that decision.

By major softwares I am talking for open source softwares Linux/Libre Office/Firefox/Chrome/Thunderbird/VLC/GIMP etc.

Firefox at least already supports (Munster) Irish. There’s nothing to stop any interested party from adding Irish support to any other open source software. Getting people to use the Irish version is a different issue.

even google has it's page in Gaeilge they done it without being a big deal, they didn't wait for irish people to have a say about the matter, they just done it. why would they bother ?

Unlike replacing all road signs, Irish people didn’t have to pay money to Google for Google to support Irish; why would Irish people have a say about how Google spends its own money? As to why Google would bother, perhaps Google’s ROI comes from collecting the data that Irish language users enter into the search box, and using that information to sell to interested advertisers, just as they do with every other language that they support.

the way of thinking "why doing it if there is no money in it" will bring nothing, that root is rotten you can't think like that to solve this issue that's why electorate is a cul de sac and that's why in 2015 we are stuck do you rely on money to save a language ? wrong end to me.

That’s exactly how people trying to earn a living from a particular area of knowledge have to think. Knowledge without a practical application won’t provide a source of income to allow the purchase of food and shelter. If part of your recipe for saving a language is “replace all the road signs”, then money must be relied upon so that those signs can be manufactured and installed; since that’s an issue of public policy, that money would come from the public treasury, and that’s why support of the electorate is not a cul de sac.

I am living abroad now and the minute you speak english people think you are english. most people don't do accent differenciation. you speak english fluently then you are english or american.

Then that’s an issue for those mistaken people to correct, not the speaker. If a francophone travels and someone can’t distinguish if he’s e.g. French, Belgian, Swiss, or Canadian from the minute he speaks French, why would that be an issue for the speaker? It’s not his fault that such people are mistaken.

The [Corsican] scenario is similar to ireland but in the other direction a lot of people speak it because they know how important there culture is.

And that is the difference between the Corsican scenario and the Irish scenario; that Irish electorate whom you have no time for is precisely the group who has to be convinced of the cultural importance of personal fluency in the Irish language. Without that foundation, all efforts to expand fluency in Irish will be in vain.

I don't come here with "out of the box solutions" but I am concerned and look at what could be done in a small scale. Big scale is irrelevant to me. change only appears within yourself and lead by examples.

If big scale were irrelevant to you, you would not begin your suggestions with “replace all the road signs”. I agree that change must come from within and that leadership comes from example; at this time, much of the Irish people are content with English and are unconvinced of the cultural importance of a personal fluency in Irish. As other people have noted, some Irish people even have a dislike of Irish due to the experiences of learning it during their school years. That is what must be overcome for such people to be open to change.

You are an english teacher ?

No, I’m not. I’m also not Irish, and I don’t live in Ireland, so getting my kids to write to my bank as Gaeilge would have zero effect in Ireland.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mazzaru

I see your point that politicians own the authority on public matters and that is another problem all together to me, we gave away our power to this institution and now we traped, that is my opinion. however I am talking about the power individuals have without relaying on their government to act. Road sign is just one obvious idea, there could be many others concerning traffic/transport, it does need a budget for sure and the government control this matter because it's government property. Override this fact. Without motivation from the citizens to act there will be no hope to go near a debate with politicians. the focus for me is self-motivation self interest throughout little creative actions that make everyone looking at the problem and the danger we are facing by convenient english life style. By using our freedom we react to problems that we see with our own gears and let the ones who don't take the time to stop and start having an interest.

Google found a way to make money by providing gaeilge tools for free ? well done.

Irish are content with english it's understandable. easy to learn, spoken by over 1 billion people around the world, uk's neighbours, centuries of english occupation, that's the big picture. Irish it's 40k speakers and may be 300k with knowledge of it, insular language with some challenging grammar rules and pronunciation coming from an english background. That are facts, and by logic you can see that there is no chance from a common chap to get out of his way to learn irish. there is a huge inspiring job to do to show the treasure that gaeilge and bilingual skill have to offer to self accomplishment. duolingo is definitely one of the tool towards this goal. it makes learning interesting and fun. youtube could be with talented individuals, new technologies are for sure a tool to exploit, but more importantly the streets, I think. Foreigners are too, I believe, we should focus on foreigners living in Ireland to learn gaeilge, if the irish gave up fine for now, what about already billingual people ? why the focus shouldn't be on them too ? that might hopefully make some irish people react overtime.

It wasn't a personal question, when I said: are you a teacher ;) it was for all the readers, and I was throwing an idea for someone who is eventually in this case.

I'd like to read your ideas towards the matter of convincing this little group controlling how things runs you have more faith than me on this matter it is worth to be exposed. I am not against different opinions I just exposed mine and it's not bullet proof

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
scilling
  • 25
  • 1504

we gave away our power to this institution and now we traped, that is my opinion.

By “this institution”, do you mean Dáil Éireann ?

however I am talking about the power individuals have without relaying on their government to act.

“Replacing all road signs” is reliant upon government to act.

Without motivation from the citizens to act there will be no hope to go near a debate with politicians.

I agree on the motivational point, but you were the one who had no time for what the electorate thinks.

the danger we are facing by convenient english life style

Someone without an interest in learning Irish would not feel himself in danger by living his life in English.

there is a huge inspiring job to do to show the treasure that gaeilge and bilingual skill have to offer to self accomplishment.

I agree — it is a huge job. Suddenly removing English from the streetscape will not win hearts for Irish bilingualism.

we should focus on foreigners living in Ireland to learn gaeilge

Why would foreigners wish to learn Irish if most of the Irish people around them don’t use it?

what about already billingual people ? why the focus shouldn't be on them too ?

If your goal is bilingualism, focusing on already bilingual people would be “preaching to the choir”, merely affirming the beliefs of people who already agree with you.

It wasn't a personal question, when I said: are you a teacher ;)

Then it would have been more clearly phrased as an impersonal question by “If one is an English teacher, then …”.

I'd like to read your ideas towards the matter of convincing this little group controlling how things runs

Which “little group” are you referring to?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mazzaru

Why can't I reply to your message ? yes I meant Dail Do you have someone else in mind ?

I wasn't talking about replacing but using any means necessary to make them english free.

Yes I have no time with them but once people are acting governments intend to get involve, I actually wanted to finnish that sentence by: there is no point to debate anyway. My argument was trying to relate to yours which is having to negotiate with them to see things moving. Do you have an opinion on that ?

by danger I meant forgetting the rest, making your life english only and give up on gaeilge because there is no point english is fine. that attitude is the danger and that what is creating the status quo isn't it ?

Removing is a bit too radical, I agree, it's not good for people to have their choice to speak english taking away for a language they don't know.

foreigners are motivated they unlocked their abilities to learn another language. When you are bilingual you have more ground to expend your knowledge about languages, you made the effort and you've seen all the benefits, foreigners have done half the job now it's about embracing a significant part of ireland by learning gaeilge, if they find interest to it. And by the way it was an idea it's not a concept I just think it could be discussed. don't you agree or see the eventual benefit ?

Yes I could have phrased it, ta bron orm ;) the little group I was referring to was Dáil Éireann.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
scilling
  • 25
  • 1504

Why can't I reply to your message ?

The forum software here enforces a reply limit on threads of a discussion. (I’m replying to you by pressing the Reply link on the rightmost comment of yours that has a Reply link, so that you’ll receive a notice of having received a reply.)

yes I meant Dail Do you have someone else in mind ?

If I’d had some other institution in mind, it wouldn’t matter — what mattered was what you had in mind, which is why I’d asked for clarification.

My idea towards the matter of convincing the Dáil would be working towards electing a Dáil that supports my point of view. If no political party supports my point of view, then the onus would be on me to make change happen — either by influencing an existing political party to accept changes to its manifesto that were more in line with my thinking, or by getting together with likeminded people to organize a new political party. If I were unwilling to bear either burden, then I’d need to accept the political status quo and limit myself to pursuing change only as a private individual.

Representative democracy is designed to delegate power to a legislative institution. If you’re an Irish citizen and you’re unhappy with that arrangement, your solution is to work towards electing a Dáil that will submit a bill to amend the constitution so that an alternative arrangement more to your liking will be put to a referendum.

I wasn't talking about replacing but using any means necessary to make them english free.

So you’d be willing to kill people to remove English from road signs, if that was what was necessary?

My argument was trying to relate to yours which is having to negotiate with them to see things moving. Do you have an opinion on that ?

By “them”, do you mean the electorate, or do you mean the politicians?

by danger I meant forgetting the rest, making your life english only and give up on gaeilge because there is no point english is fine. that attitude is the danger and that what is creating the status quo isn't it ?

It is the status quo, but as I’d noted before, there are many people who would not see the status quo as dangerous.

foreigners are motivated they unlocked their abilities to learn another language.

Foreigners would learn another language to communicate with people in their new country of residence. If few people in the new country speak a particular language, then foreigners’ willingness to learn that language would not be as great as learning the majority language in the new country.

And by the way it was an idea it's not a concept I just think it could be discussed. don't you agree or see the eventual benefit ?

I don’t understand your distinction between “idea” and “concept”. I agree that it could certainly be discussed — that’s what we’re doing right now. In my view, the eventual benefit is synonymous with ROI — unless a foreigner moves to a Gaeltacht or has a general interest in languages, he is unlikely to have a compelling reason to learn Irish.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mazzaru

I still cannot reply but it's the follow up of our conversation.

I understand that you want to rely on your goverment to change what matter. I don't want to get to a debate on political views, it's obsvious we don't share the same ideas that's fine. however I'd like to point that, you are describing "the path" your point of view would go through and then you ended up saying :

I’d need to accept the political status quo and limit myself to pursuing change only as a private individual.

Like I said I won't go through political arguments however you should understand my arguments being exactly what you would do.

Representative democracy is designed to delegate power to a legislative institution. If you’re an Irish citizen and you’re unhappy with that arrangement, your solution is to work towards electing a Dáil that will submit a bill to amend the constitution so that an alternative arrangement more to your liking will be put to a referendum.

you actually believe that ?

So you’d be willing to kill people to remove English from road signs, if that was what was necessary?

sure.. will kill the man with the road sign if he gets to close.. jaysus scilling it's a bit excessive for my taste, it's only road signs not a zombie apocalypse ;)

well let s not getting too exited here, duck tape and spray paint should do it, no need for drastic measures.

People are entertained by the status quo. Gaeilge became this school forced lessons that the only person who wants to hear it is your teacher ready to give you a hard time if you didn't do what you are told. Great relationship...

by foreigners I meant people who enjoyed learning a language not just for food and shelter but self achievement and they might not want to stop at english because of "pratical facts" but because they know 2 languages (1+english) they might feel that their knowledge can expand to more and at the same time appreciate gaeilge in its natural environment. but for this to happen people who knows gaeilge fluently could motivate them. You see like me the number of flags there are next to all those duolingo names, that only shows how much people are thirsty about learning languages. and irish here received 1.1 million interested folks that is huge for a so called dying language I bet you a lot of irish people didn't see that coming ;).

an idea is a brick, a consept is a wall, and inspiration is a sledge hammer ;)

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
scilling
  • 25
  • 1504

I understand that you want to rely on your goverment to change what matter.

You don’t seem to have understood what I’d stated. I’d only answered your question on how I would “convince this little group controlling how things are run”; I stated nothing about what I do or don’t rely upon.

you should understand my arguments being exactly what you would do.

I never claimed that I would use any means necessary to make road signs English-free, so your arguments are not exactly what I would do.

you actually believe that ?

As a method for replacing representative democracy in Ireland, yes, I do. (Note that nothing was stated about the likelihood of it being replaced.) If you don’t believe that, how would you go about replacing representative democracy in Ireland with something more to your liking?

duck tape and spray paint should do it, no need for drastic measures.

So you don’t believe in any means necessary. But you do believe that defacing road signs would be a catalyst for Irish bilingualism?

by foreigners I meant people who enjoyed learning a language not just for food and shelter […]

Then you’d be “preaching to the choir” again — focusing on a minority who are already agreeable to bilingualism, rather than focusing on the majority of Irish people who do not hold personal fluency in Irish as being culturally important.

You see like me the number of flags there are next to all those duolingo names, that only shows how much people are thirsty about learning languages.

Yes, there are certainly people who are interested in learning languages. One of the course creators previously pointed out that of the 1.1 million people who have tried the Irish course, about 9% of them are from Ireland — so roughly 100,000 of the 4.6 million citizens of Ireland have at least tried the Duolingo Irish course once. How many of those 100,000 are sufficiently interested to pursue personal fluency in Irish? (Duolingo alone won’t get them there.) If we were to say, in round numbers, that another 100,000 people in Ireland are already fluent in Irish, then that still leaves at least 4.4 million Irish citizens to convince — and that total doesn’t include those Irish people who have tried the Irish course here and subsequently decided not to pursue personal fluency in Irish.

an idea is a brick, a consept is a wall, and inspiration is a sledge hammer ;)

So concepts are made of ideas, and inspiration can destroy both concepts and ideas. ;*)

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mazzaru

So you don’t believe in any means necessary. But you do believe that defacing road signs would be a catalyst for Irish bilingualism?

for an irish debate at least, by being so big that irish people would talk about it and eventually it becomes a dinner conversation that lead to some irish people would give another chance to gaeilge, we need to rethink the issue of gaeilge in everydays life with little moves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ownuljxqCHM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6HjhAnyC-8 Then you’d be “preaching to the choir” again — focusing on a minority who are already agreeable to bilingualism, rather than focusing on the majority of Irish people who do not hold personal fluency in Irish as being culturally important.

well I don't like preaching, it's a minority with over 300k people living in ireland, mainly polish and english it's a big minority to me. Irish travellers are what 30k ? 35k ? that's what I call a minority. I'd like to remind you that most of our everyday life has been build by minorities, we are owned by a minority, we execute for a minority.

So concepts are made of ideas, and inspiration can destroy both concepts and ideas. ;*)

well it's fine to have ideas and concepts and follow them it's safe and it does build good things, you don't have to be inspired by every aspect of life, there are things you don't care , things you are not aware of, things you don't question anymore, the inspiration comes in time and place where what you've learn is not in the books or in school but by experience of life, the things that nobody can teach you but yourself, then it's the time when you realize that what you have build is restraining you, slowing you down so you do something about it maybe a sledge hammer wasn't the right artefact, lets say a window instead, that's what I meant, and actually an old fella said something a lot more explicit, and it is gonna be my quote for the day, thank you :

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.

I believe you are in good control of the language and you neither irish or resident in ireland so where this work comes from, foreign school ? harvard, leipzig, canada, scotland yard or are you from the smalest minority of all, self educated ? Irish might not even be the only language you know beside english. tu parles le francais ? abla espagnol ? anyway, my point was people like you not only irish are worth learning gaeilge. Being billingual will help a lot by knowing already a second language, people like you are worth being mentioned to unaware monolingual irish people. I don't care where you come from, you are willing to learn gaeilge, that was the point.

Well from all that now, do we build that IrishRoadSignArmy or what ? :*D

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
scilling
  • 25
  • 1504

Please reply to one of my comments, so that I’ll receive notice of the reply — I discovered this reply of yours only by chance.

for an irish debate at least, by being so big that irish people would talk about it and eventually it becomes a dinner conversation that lead to some irish people would give another chance to gaeilge, we need to rethink the issue of gaeilge in everydays life with little moves.

Defaced road signs could certainly become a topic of dinner conversation, but I doubt that the conclusion drawn from those conversations would be “You know, we really need to study Irish, now that the English is being eliminated from our road signs by unknown people with spray paint”.

I'd like to remind you that most of our everyday life has been build by minorities, we are owned by a minority, we execute for a minority.

If you honestly believe that we are owned by a minority and that we execute for a minority, then you should target your bilingualism actions against that minority, so that that minority’s decision to learn Irish will be executed by everyone that they own.

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.

But the current generation of Irish citizens didn’t create Irish monolingualism — they inherited it. Furthermore, many of those people don’t consider monolingualism to even be a problem, and defacing road signs to remove the one language that they do understand will not convince them to learn the other language.

I don't care where you come from, you are willing to learn gaeilge, that was the point.

And my point was that I was already “a member of the choir”. I’m not the type of person who needs to be convinced of the advantages of bilingualism; it’s a waste of time to try to convince me that an idea is valuable when I already value it.

Well from all that now, do we build that IrishRoadSignArmy or what ? :*D

I honestly believe that defacing road signs to remove their English language content will not convince monolingual English speakers to become bilingual in Irish. I can’t stop you from defacing those road signs if you honestly believe the opposite, but I’ll not join that army.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mazzaru

Well I thought you gave up on me... ;*) you didn't seem convinced by any of my arguments :P I admit they are not bulletproof, I never got the opportunity to expose them, even if I am aware of some of your statements being an obstacle they can be by passed in some cases.

If you honestly believe that we are owned by a minority and that we execute for a minority, then you should target your bilingualism actions against that minority, so that that minority’s decision to learn Irish will be executed by everyone that they own.

they probably did learn Irish and they probably speak it too, that won't change anything to seduce them, English has been put there to take over, it wasn't meant to share a second language or to empower bilingualism. they succeeded throughout laws and punishments, and we must admit that English is easy to learn. you must be an apple computer user aren't ya ? if you have a problem there is only one company you can turn to ;-)

But the current generation of Irish citizens didn’t create Irish monolingualism — they inherited it. Furthermore, many of those people don’t consider monolingualism to even be a problem, and defacing road signs to remove the one language that they do understand will not convince them to learn the other language.

I agree with you, but my quote was directed to the way Irish has been passed on. Throughout schools, and its educational program. people have no say in the matter they do what they told unfortunately, and schools create more problems that solutions to me.

And my point was that I was already “a member of the choir”. I’m not he type of person who needs to be convinced of the advantages of bilingualism; it’s a waste of time to try to convince me that an idea is valuable when I already value it.

ok fine, I hear ya, however, in your case as far as I know, you have English and Gaeilge would you be up for a third one ?

my scenario was for someone who is not a native English speaker, and immigrate to Ireland with his own language + a good control of English, he/she would realize that gaeilge is out there like a piece of music that want to be played, his mind is already convinced that bilingualism is great like you and me that's ok, however my point was, that gaeilge could become his third language without working to much on the inspiration part of the problem and he/she would fine self motivation pretty easily to get exposed to gaeilge with the facilities that Ireland gives. I know Irish people are the ones who should speak it in the first place, but maybe by looking at the problem from a different way and embracing the thousands of bilinguals that are living in Ireland we might get Irish monolinguals get inspired by hearing foreigners speaking it. Or maybe it's should be the job of bilingual people who have English and irish fluent like you to inspire them and do all the work :D

By helping us out on this free platform you already contribute in making gaeilge more into our lives and that's fantastic go raibh maith agat for that.

I honestly believe that defacing road signs to remove their English language content will not convince monolingual English speakers to become bilingual in Irish. I can’t stop you from defacing those road signs if you honestly believe the opposite, but I’ll not join that army.

well it depends, we will have the lad that's gonna be pissed off because he/she gonna have to make an effort to read the sign in gaeilge yes I am aware of that. However we are in ireland here, we know the roads in all fairness. It would be messy in dublin I agree but once you are in the country side I don't think locals would look at them too much they all know where they going and the old fellas/ladies would understand them anyway. I think most of the kids would have in some extents an understanding, because of schools mandatory lessons. I think the biggest problem would be the 25 to 50 yo range. A big range I know, but if one scenario, you are driving with your kids you get to a road sign and it could be a great way for the kids to practice their irish and show their parents the skill to be bilingual in gaeilge. Another group are the foreigners,I might be wrong, but I think they would make the effort because they know that they are in ireland and they are already bilingual.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
scilling
  • 25
  • 1504

they probably did learn Irish and they probably speak it too, that won't change anything to seduce them, English has been put there to take over, it wasn't meant to share a second language or to empower bilingualism. they succeeded throughout laws and punishments, and we must admit that English is easy to learn.

What advantage does this minority gain by ensuring that all of their owned people speak only English? Wouldn’t these owned people be less capable of executing for this minority if these owned people only know one language? Which year do you believe that English was first “put there to take over”? Since my mother tongue is English, I don’t have sufficient perspective to compare its ease of learning to that of other mother tongues.

my quote was directed to the way Irish has been passed on. Throughout schools, and its educational program. people have no say in the matter they do what they told unfortunately, and schools create more problems that solutions to me.

Which alternative means of teaching Irish to the level of personal fluency would you recommend in place of schools?

I know Irish people are the ones who should speak it in the first place, but maybe by looking at the problem from a different way and embracing the thousands of bilinguals that are living in Ireland we might get Irish monolinguals get inspired by hearing foreigners speaking it. Or maybe it's should be the job of bilingual people who have English and irish fluent like you to inspire them and do all the work :D

If Irish monolinguals are not inspired to learn Irish by Irish bilinguals who speak Irish, why would they be inspired by non-Irish bilinguals who speak Irish instead? I’m not by any definition fluent in Irish, so I’d be a poor rôle model for personal Irish fluency.

Another group are the foreigners, I might be wrong, but I think they would make the effort because they know that they are in ireland and they are already bilingual.

I agree that some people would make an effort, whether they be Irish citizens or foreigners resident in Ireland; however, I’m not convinced that a majority of Irish monolingual people would make that effort. If the goal is Irish bilingualism, then a majority of Irish monolingual people must embrace personal fluency in Irish to achieve that goal.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mazzaru

What advantage does this minority gain by ensuring that all of their owned people speak only English? Wouldn’t these owned people be less capable of executing for this minority if these owned people only know one language? Which year do you believe that English was first “put there to take over”? Since my mother tongue is English, I don’t have sufficient perspective to compare its ease of learning to that of other mother tongues.

I am gonna try to stay focus on the topic here. As much as I like chatting about ownership, this is not the place. this duolingo commenting app is terrible for the conversation we have here. My opinion, the stem was Latin priests immigrating to Ireland and writing down gaeilge with Latin letters. gaeilge, like many languages, was a spoken language. By writing down this foreign language, they made it their property to spread religious dogmas, main form of authority at the time. I believe that the early XIV age was the beginning of turning Ireland to an 100% English diet. I can't really explain it either, but facts show that english is wide spread for any topic of conversation, debates, there is an ease for this language, the patterns are quite easy to remember.

Subject-Verb-Object is quite popular among languages. I would expect, my knowledge on this is limited too. But there is not so much irregularities to operate with. English is quite regular and has no fada, which helps I suppose, there is no male/female. There are also more and more words coming from latin that are used, by embracing them and be flexible, English made it's way to the top, and from early age non-english kids see their life being filled with english terms one of the root of a successful language

Which alternative means of teaching Irish to the level of personal fluency would you recommend in place of schools?

It's a hard one because first, people believe that learning is the product of teaching. An alternative would be to have your surrendering being flooded with the language where ever you are.. using computers to get the documents that will help you organizing your learning process is essential but a particular attention has to be made in which documents will be your allies. limit the translation process to a minimum, none if possible, ta é ull is ta é ull nil é apple ;-) (is my irish correct?) School has a big place in people's mind for learning that's where it occurs for us. Some of the answer is part of the unlearning process I was talking about in a previous comment.

I recommend going on TED talks and watch Ken Robinson videos. I would recommend to you, john holt's books on learning/teaching/failing

If Irish monolinguals are not inspired to learn Irish by Irish bilinguals who speak Irish, why would they be inspired by non-Irish bilinguals who speak Irish instead? I’m not by any definition fluent in Irish, so I’d be a poor rôle model for personal Irish fluency.

ha go on, you seem to hold good ground when answering people's questions, I doubt you're copying/paste documents ;-) you are in some extent part of personal irish fluency, every time you answering one of the participant question. if, with your knowledge you are not fluent, who will ? well, mind you, some irish speakers wouldn't have as much on grammar/semantic rules as you do but still would be considered fluent in irish, so knowledge is not everything. You have a lack of practice if you are not fluent, I can only see that. Te people I know told me that one of the reason the wouldn't learn gaeilge it's because it has been intellectualized to much by some scholarship participants. It became this very obscure mandatory school minded language like latin in other countries. when coming from a quite regular language as English without fada to an: Uru, Seimhu, leathan, Caol multi pronunciation/writing maze, feminine/masculine differentiation, with plenty of linguistic terms, that can only put people off. It's good to keep the information to a minimum and let the kid/adult embrace with his/her own natural mistakes. Value mistakes instead of punishing them, that is part of the problem people won't try or go further into gaeilge.

I agree that some people would make an effort, whether they be Irish citizens or foreigners resident in Ireland; however, I’m not convinced that a majority of Irish monolingual people would make that effort. If the goal is Irish bilingualism, then a majority of Irish monolingual people must embrace personal fluency in Irish to achieve that goal.

the idea behind a foreigner speaking gaeilge is that you want to create a new perspective of the language that gaeilge is able to be embrace by multi nationalities and that you are missing out because even non-irish are learning and speaking it and each will give you his/her own reason on why gaeilge has to be spoken. their first reaction could be something like : but where did you learn that ? you didn't go to school in Ireland how did you do it then ? It would help separate "learning" from "school" that would trigger eventually some reaction that yourself can do it you don't need a school to learn.

For a monolingual Irish kid, it would be to limit the information given to them and let them embrace gaeilge without being intrusive in their learning process, the biggest mistake teachers make is to believe that those kids wouldn't learn without them. Its about repositioning the value of teaching and the place of a teacher and parents. It is weakening to think that you need a teacher to learn, you might need clarifications but you have control of the learning process all based on self motivation and confidence and language friendly environment. I see it everyday with my kids.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
scilling
  • 25
  • 1504

My opinion, the stem was Latin priests immigrating to Ireland and writing down gaeilge with Latin letters. gaeilge, like many languages, was a spoken language. By writing down this foreign language, they made it their property to spread religious dogmas, main form of authority at the time.

Old Irish was written in the Latin alphabet at least by the early 9th century (e.g. the Book of Armagh), centuries before the earliest English incursion. Since the vast majority of people at that time were illiterate, describing written Irish as “property” is inaccurate; religious dogma was spread by verbal proselytization, not by control of scriptoria.

I believe that the early XIV age was the beginning of turning Ireland to an 100% English diet.

The early 14th century would have been the era of Middle English, in the midst of the Normans in Ireland assimilating into Irish culture. England was just becoming involved in the Hundred Years’ War, which is why Ireland “beyond the Pale” remained Irish-speaking in that period.

An alternative would be to have your surrendering being flooded with the language where ever you are.. using computers to get the documents that will help you organizing your learning process is essential but a particular attention has to be made in which documents will be your allies.

And this process depends upon the will of the learner; without the will to gain personal fluency, learning will not happen. This is why instilling that will to gain personal fluency must precede any mass bilingualism program for that program to succeed.

you seem to hold good ground when answering people's questions, I doubt you're copying/paste documents ;-)

Personal fluency isn’t necessary to answer grammatical questions; rather, a willingness to find those answers is what’s necessary. I include many links in my replies; I have no desire to “reïnvent the wheel” when answers to such questions are only a click away.

well, mind you, some irish speakers wouldn't have as much on grammar/semantic rules as you do but still would be considered fluent in irish, so knowledge is not everything. You have a lack of practice if you are not fluent, I can only see that.

That’s exactly right; fluency and grammatical knowledge have overlap, but they’re not at all identical. Since I don’t practice speaking Irish, I am in no way fluent.

It's good to keep the [grammatical] information to a minimum and let the kid/adult embrace with his/her own natural mistakes. Value mistakes instead of punishing them, that is part of the problem people won't try or go further into gaeilge.

It depends upon what one’s primary goal is; for speaking, I’d agree with this, where practice — even flawed practice — establishes the “muscle memory” which is an essential part of attaining fluency. Since my primary goal is reading Irish rather than speaking Irish, I place a higher value on understanding grammatical details, and my answers tend to reflect this viewpoint.

the idea behind a foreigner speaking gaeilge is that you want to create a new perspective of the language that gaeilge is able to be embrace by multi nationalities and that you are missing out because even non-irish are learning and speaking it and each will give you his/her own reason on why gaeilge has to be spoken.

Again, that’s my point — not everyone feels something missing by being monolingual, just as not everyone feels something missing by e.g. not being able to play a musical instrument. Such people will not feel that any second language has to be spoken.

It is weakening to think that you need a teacher to learn, you might need clarifications but you have control of the learning process all based on self motivation and confidence and language friendly environment.

Yes, self-motivation is most certainly critical; someone without the desire to learn a second language will not have that self-motivation.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Shanow22
Shanow22
  • 10
  • 9
  • 8
  • 6
  • 6
  • 4
  • 2
  • 2
  • 2

I have been fortunate to have had conversations as Gaeilge with a number of people from France, Spain, England and America. Some were barely short of completely fluent.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mazzaru

that is just fantastic, I'd love to see that, we should make a youtube video of this, with each of them speaking irish with a little flag of their origin telling people that gaeilge is part of us parts of humanity that we all should understand that and irish people first. speak up!

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Shanow22
Shanow22
  • 10
  • 9
  • 8
  • 6
  • 6
  • 4
  • 2
  • 2
  • 2

great idea. my english friends is visiting galway again soon and I might just do that :D

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mazzaru

do you know what I was actually thinking for a video ? If you have a french, english spanish and U.S person it's to film each of them in their own country in a pub with friends and you hear each of them speaking their native language make the watcher thinking that it's definitely not in ireland. While the camera films the group of people from a distance it comes nears them and then they look at it stop speaking and start to speak in gaeilge looking at the cam.

the french lad could say something around those lines(in gaeilge):

gaeilge is not dead, you have a beautiful language in your hands put it back in your mouth and embrace what ireland was build for, don't forget.

then the english would say something like (in gaeilge) :

Your accents are not coming from speaking English but by your ancestors speaking Irish don't forget it, it's part of you every day, give back your accents its language.

the spanish lad or girl could sing "oro se do bheatha bhaile" for example

the yank fella could say like(in gaeilge).

There is only a fine line between knowing where we come from and forgetting what we have become. Gaeilge is a gift from our mothers and fathers, learn it speak it, lets love being why we speak gaeilge

and then each of them go back to chatting in their own language in the pub with the camera going away.. or something dunno.. to do the transition between people you'll have a overview of the street where the pub is and some writing at the bottom like an action movie in the left corner saying the date/place/country you definitely want to see the streets of paris, London, Barcelona and a city in USA or it could be from the country side too why not. in HD please lol, GRMA I want that done for next monday ;-)

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/demazema

I believe so. I just think this generation's negative view of the language has to be overcome. They see Irish as something they must conform to, not something to express themselves through. This is mostly because of the way it is taught, through writing down and repeating phrases, and independent constructions not encouraged. In English class, it is about expressing yourself, in Irish class, it's about conformity. (I'm sure this is much different in the gaelscoileanna, though.)

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Knocksedan

This generation? I don't see any evidence that "this generation" is significantly different than previous generations when it comes to attitudes towards the Irish language. The kids in Gaelscoileanna probably have a generally positive attitude to the language than average (until they encounter Gaeilgeoirí who dismiss their efforts at speaking the language, at any rate), but there are also many more schoolkids who are excused compulsory Irish these days than there used to be. There are more infants picking up basic Irish from the cartoons on TG4 than in previous generations, but I don't know how that will work out down the road. (And on the other hand, there are more kids who never watch anything from Irish TV channels, watching an exclusive diet of UK and US imports).

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mazzaru

I think the kids are doing a great job, the issue is their surrounding environment made by adults who forgot or disliked their gaeilge experience. there are a few TED talks about how schools kill creativity, natural learning and fun. I recommend viewing use google.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/demazema

I refer to "this generation", as I'm just talking about what I've personally experienced, I'm only 18 years old and still in secondary school, this is the attitude I've observed from /most/ (not all, but the overwhelming majority) of my classmates. So basically, I was just talking about the views of people my age. I apologise for sounding like I was separating myself from what I was talking about.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Knocksedan

I wasn't suggesting that you were separating yourself from his generation, I was just suggesting that this generation aren't particularly at fault. Their attitude to Irish is pretty much the same as previous generations of kids for exactly the same reasons that you outline.

The way Irish is taught in schools isn't really doing much for the development of the language, but they only change that's on the agenda is to make it optional rather than compulsory, but I don't think that's going to improve matters - it might get rid of the resentment, but it won't make it easier to make Irish more widespread.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/CalumUiFearghail

Ta me an-dochasach go mbeidh a fas an teanga seo

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/fr224
fr224
  • 21
  • 9
  • 9
  • 6
  • 6
  • 4

It's possible, but unlikely.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/sibhreach

Unfortunately I agree with galaxyrocker :(

Years and years ago, I started learning Gaeilge and was in a chatroom with a bunch of Irish, Irish-Americans and other Irish-culture-lovers - and the few words I knew (Dia dhuit! Dia dhaoibh! Slán! Go raibh maith agat, etc., etc) I had a lot of native Irish actually either react with shock - or blatant disgust. One woman I'd chat with told me all my "Irish chatting" just reminded her of the Catholic nuns who would smack her with a ruler whenever she'd mess up her Gaeilge lessons!!! Yikes.

The only person I had a (short) Irish conversation with was from a native Irish - who had moved to So. America in the 1970's and was only fluent because it happened to be his first language. These people are dying off and the environment for learning/using Irish seems to be hostile.

One day I will return to learning Gaeilge, but I think it will be the folks outside of Ireland that will keep this language alive and it will take a long, concentrated effort to have Ireland fall in love with their native language(s) again...

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Knocksedan

There are tens of thousands of people in Ireland with a positive attitude to Irish (and many more who are neutral on the issue), and with relatively easy access to the resources that would allow them to improve their Irish if they want to, including TV and radio programmes and other Irish speakers. People outside Ireland will never be more important to the survival of the Irish language than people in Ireland, not least because they just don't form a coherent speaking community - they are just too scattered. Even in American cities with a big Irish American population, you'd be hard pressed to get a couple of dozen speakers. Irish would simply end up as an intellectual curiosity like Latin or Klingon if it truly dies out in Ireland.

The Internet makes it easier for people outside Ireland to access the resources that are only being created in Ireland, but it also makes it clear that Irish speakers outside Ireland are a tiny part of the survival of the Irish language.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/proinsias123

I heard someone say that the best way to revive Irish would be to ban it.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Knocksedan

That's a commentary on a certain contrariness that Irish people tend to ascribe to themselves. If you banned Irish with the intention of reviving it, the same contrariness would work against you.

2 years ago
Learn Irish in just 5 minutes a day. For free.

Learn Irish in just 5 minutes a day. For free.