"Whose water is it?"

Translation:Чья это вода?

November 19, 2015

30 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/segviolation

Why isn't it "ета вода"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shady_arc
Mod
  • 952

Russian rarely uses questions like "Whose is this water?" Normally it is similar to "Whose water is this?", with unchanging «это» between the question word and the object.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/styaan

So it's always "это", whatever the gender of the noun it relates to? Is this a general rule or just a rule for this specific question?

My first language is also a Slavic one and this just sounds so... wrong to me. Why would you not change the ending of "это", especially in the written form of communication?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FrancescoBellati

Because it's an absolute rule. All languages have this kind of grammar features.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/seanballard

Sounds the same to me regardless ha


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jennyf234

The way I understand it (and I'm here to learn so please don't kill me if I'm wrong) you only match the two of them if they truely belong together, not if they just coexist in the same sentence. There might be an exception since water is so difficult to quantify so let's take книга instead. Whose book is this? ➡️[...] книга это This book is on the table. ➡️Эта книга [...] In the first example the this is pretty independant (and now that I'm actively thinking about it's the subject of the sentences, and therefore unchangable?) while in the second the describes the noun (it's a demonstrative pronoun) and so has to be adjustet. At least that's how we do it in German so it's seems logical to me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stradaniye

I tried wording it «чья вода это.» Is this word order not used?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shady_arc
Mod
  • 952

It isn't. At least, normally it is an appropriate form of чей + "это" + the noun.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pop2323pop

Why does the word "чья" have a soft sign if the vowel я already makes ч soft? Why is it not spelled "чя"? or do I misunderstand how the soft sign works


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shady_arc
Mod
  • 952

The spelling follows the pattern used i Russian when the consonant is soft but the vowel letter retains its Й sound.

We never write чя, but is would be pronounced same as /ча/ because Ч is always palatalized.

чья is pronounced /чйа/.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/levisjeans9

Чья вода это?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ilya_krsk

"эта" "'это" оба правильные


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/slothy117

I thought this sentence would be genitive because it's showing possession - is that wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MartinSchmelzle

Why is it чья and not чей? I don't really understand the difference


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NachshonB

"whose" is a gendered word, according to the subject. voda is feminine, chey is masculine.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoshuaKnic

Чей - whose (masculine object)

Чей это стол? Whose chair is this?

Чьё - whose (neuter)

Чьё это модоко? Whose milk is this?

Чья - whose (feminine)

Чья это книга? Whose book is this?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Yuliya_Chem

Word "water" is feminine, therefore “whose”. And “whose” refers to masculine words.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Comaaq

It should be «эта». «это» is not natural in this context.

//Russian-speaking native


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TaylorShai

Can you explain why?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/onyan753

I'd like to know why, too. You should clarify whether you are following Russian grammar rules or it is the colloquial way of speaking nowadays. Shady_arc has already explained the rule so I'd like to hear your side, too.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vygandas11

Чья эта вода? Непрокатывает :(


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Batyrhan47

В контексте вода содержится в ёмкости, мы же с вами в таком случае говорим: "это"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VahidN2

Is this genitive?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mr.X952790

No, it's not.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KZFuller

I did not realize word order was important, but in this case - they indicate it is. I responded Чья вода это - basically putting it English word order, and they said it was wrong.


[deactivated user]

    «Чья вода это?» неправильно. Пожалуйста, Почему? Saying something is customarily spoken or normally spoken, or "it must be done that way" without explanation does not explain anything. I hate the idea of "you have to do it this way because everybody else does it this way." It has been said that for most Russian speech word order does not matter except that the speaker might want to emphasize something.

    Так, пожалуйста, почему, «чья вода это» неправильно?

    After all, in English, both "Whose water is this?" and "Whose is this water?" are correct, with exactly the same meaning. Also it may be correct to say "To whom does this water belong?", and "This water belongs to whom?" That later might be a little awkward, but it is correct.

    It isn't a matter simply of what a Russian would say in colloquial speech, but what is grammatically correct in Russian and why? Why are not both «Чья это вода?» and «Чья вода это?» correct? For that matter, why would «Это вода чья?» be wrong? Please include authoritative sources for explanations, not just some personal impressions.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shady_arc
    Mod
    • 952

    Define "grammatically correct". We do not know the grammars of natural languages—in the sense that, whereas people do study natural languages and write 2000 page long comprehensive grammars, those books still do not cover everything native speakers take into consideration.

    The best explanation (model) you can have is that это from "чей это" is an unstressed particle you usually attach to the first stressed word in the sentence. In this sense, чей это + noun is completely different from чей + noun + это. Such particles are covered in grammars.

    • for example, "В вопросительных предложениях наиболее обычны модальные частицы, служащие для усиления, подчеркивания, а также для характеристики сообщаемого по связям и отношениям: ну, ну и, да, так, так и, же, и, это, ведь, уж " (Russian Grammar, 1980 : Syntax).

    The similarity to "Whose water is this?" is superficial: the Russian question does not have a word that corresponds to "this". However, Grammar-80 pretty much ignores the use of these particles, even though it includes multiple examples of similar questions (e.g., Какое это дерево? Что это ещё за новые штучки? Кто это плачет?)

    In Russian National Corpus there are no instances of "чей + something + это?" questions. There are instances of just "Чьё это?" or "Знаешь, чей это?".

    I am sure that someone somewhere said someting like "чья вода это" once or twice. We just do not consider it common enough (the frequency of 0 is not enough).

    If we dive into purely imaginary grammar, there is another trick. Different tenses are much less controversial. It is "Чья это была вода?" in the past. I think very few native speakers would say that "Чья вода была это?" sounds native, even though some may give "Чья вода это?" a pass. If languages are supposed to be logical, this should mean that the structure must be the same in the present tense, too (just with an "invisible" copula).

    (from a practical point of view, the present tense does sound a bit better if you ask me)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Barbara178658

    In a previous sentence of this lesson "чья муха?" (even though it's quite an unusual question) has been accepted as a correct sentence without "это". Why?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LastNameFi4

    My mom, who natively speaks Russian, says that “Это чья вода?” is grammatically correct and has the same meaning as “Чья это вода?” The former did not get accepted. Why?

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