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"Девочка идёт в школу, хотя и хочет спать."

Translation:The girl is going to school even though she wants to sleep.

November 20, 2015

98 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Whywhatfor

I can relate to this girl so much


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cameron816994

Stole the words out of my mouth.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dfggh4

I just don't get the opposition. I slept a lot during lessons at school (and university). Nice and quiet environment, if you're not snoring... :-D


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vimamalila

But on the other hand you have to get there


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JimLabbe

If the transliteration reads "Девочка идёт в школу, хотя и хочет спать," I am confused about the subject in the second clause. Does "и" substitute for (and thus translates) as "she"? Therefore might we literally translate this as the rather awkward english sentence: "She goes to school, although, wants to sleep"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OlegK.

Hello JimLabbe,

It's one of those Russian grammar quirks that make the language tough to learn if you are a non-native speaker. It is permissible to omit certain parts of the sentence under certain conditions without losing the meaning. I am not a professional linguist, but I am a native Russian speaker, so I'll try to explain it the best I can. :)

Since the subject of the sentence gets established in the first part of the sentence ("девочка"), we do not need to mention it in the second (dependent) part. You can still put the pronoun "она" in the dependent part, and it will sound perfectly normal to a Russian ear.

Девочка идёт в школу, хотя [она] и хочет спать.

It works for past and future tenses, too:

Девочка пошла в школу, хотя и хотела спать.

Девочка пойдет в школу, хотя и будет хотеть спать.

If the subject of the sentence has been previously established, then it can be absent from the sentence altogether. Let's look at the following dialog:

-- Что она делает?

-- Идёт в школу, хотя и хочет спать.

The subject "она" is established in the question. Since the following response is connected to the question, the subject can be omitted in the response. In conversational English it happens as well:

-- What is she doing?

-- Walking to school, albeit being sleepy.

I hope this helps. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JimLabbe

Thank you. That makes complete. The subject is established in the sentence and implied in "хочет."

But I am still a confused by the meaning conveyed by "и" in this sentence.

If we leave "и" out:

Девочка идёт в школу, хотя хочет спать.

...it seems the sentence would still translate as follows:

"The girl is going to school, although [she] wants to sleep."

Am I wrong? Is there a subtle shift in meaning by adding the "и" that I am missing?

Jim


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OlegK.

Nope, you're right again: the conjunction "и" can be omitted without losing the meaning. It is more of a stylistic element, an additional emphasize on the fact that the girl "is giving in" to the necessity of going to school.

This conjunction is often used in different languages to add more emphasize -- sometimes more subtle, sometimes less:

And we are starting/And off we go!

Et nous commençons!

И начали!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SergejKos

Непростое это дело, оправдывать составителей кривой фразы. Здесь отсутствует то, с чем соединял бы союз "и", поэтому опустить его стилистически правильней. Союз был бы уместней в фразе "Девочка хочет в школу, хотя хочет и спать." Возможно существует правило, определяющее подобные предложения, но непонятно, зачем такие редкие тонкости давать для изучения.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kaiveron

The word "и" can also be used as an intensifier and can be translated as "even" when used this way, which is why "хотя и" to usually translated as "even though". To me English also has the same distinction in meaning between "although" and "even though"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Y866

In school (USA, olden days) we were taught that "even though" is strictly informal--idiomatic, I guess. In formal writing, we were to use "although". That's an interesting point about "even though" being more intense. Now that I think about it (and get over its forbiddenness), I get it!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lingwat

I had a discussion about this with a Russian friend of mine. It was difficult yet interesting to explain the difference between "but," "yet," "however," "even though," and "although." They all have subtly different connotations.

"But" usually implies that either the previous statement doesn't matter or isn't taken into account because of the following statement ("It's cool, but I'm not interested."; "I lost my wallet but my week has been great!"), that the following statement is related in concept but negated our opposite ("I like cats, but I don't like dogs."), or that something you'd expect to be true because if the first statement isn't true ("I liked that movie, but I wouldn't recommend it to you.") . It also often implies that any intent expressed in the first statement is nullified by the second ("I would go, but I'm tired"). In general "but" can often mean almost the same thing as any of the other words and it is definitely the most versatile, but it almost always has the connotation of negation (if the previous ststement was positive, the following will be negative, or vice versa)

"Yet" (when used as a conjunction) is used to mean "despite the previous statement, the following statement is still true." It's used exclusively for opposing or unexpected concepts where one would imply the other wouldn't be true, yet it still is. It places a lot of emphasis on the fact that the following statement was true or happened, which is why it's commonly paired with the word "still." The following statement is usually surprising given the previous statement. ("My bicycle broke while I was riding to school, yet I still made it there on time!")

"However" is similar to "yet" except it often has a stronger connotation of having taken the previous statement into consideration. ("I think this will work, however we should probably test this part more.")

"Even though" is like "yet" in reverse. With "yet," the following statement is the important part of the sentence ("I am tired, yet I keep walking" is focused on the fact that you keep walking). With "even though," its the previous statement that is important ("I keep walking even though I'm tired").

"Although" or the more informal "though" is definitely the hardest to grasp. It is like "however" or "yet" with one very subtle difference: in informal writing and in speech, it is used when you thought of something after starting the sentence or at least just before starting it ("I'd like to go to the beach, although it's kind of cold right now"), or when the following statement is a follow-up to the idea in the previous statement but shouldn't necessarily overshadow it ("It's awesome that you got that pay raise, although your taxes will go up too"). In either case, it's used when the following statement might affect the integrity of the initial thought or previous statement and always has at least a subtle implication that you hadn't thought of it at the start of the statement. It's also used similarly to "however" in cases where the previous statement is important, but the following statement should be taken into consideration before coming to a conclusion, often with the implication that you haven't yet fully considered it and/or come to a conclusion. This connotation isn't exclusively in speech and informal writing, but when used in formal writing the assumption that it was an on-the-fly thought tends to be less prominent.

For the most part these words can all be used in the same or similar contexts and you'll always be understandable. They overlap in many ways, so in many contexts some of them may be completely interchangeable, but often your choice of which word to use will very slightly modify the implication of your statement, or at least change which part is being emphasized.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Peter643610

Sorry kaiveron I pressed the negative button in error instead of the positive one


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kendra800150

For me there is no difference in meaning between "although" and "even though". Seeing хотя as "although", I tried to translate и as "also" ("The girl is going to school, although she also wants to sleep"), but this was not accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JanetGidle

Although it is correct, the robot doesnt understand also because the word тоже was not in the Russian sentence. Best not to add unnecessary words in a translation. But yes, with even though, also would be overkill. Never thought of that! Thanks.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/asoskic

I do not think it would be correct to understand и as "also" in this context. If we add "also", that would imply that she wants both to go to school and to sleep, while the original Russian sentence does not state that she wants to go to school.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Natalia302555

"И" in this sentence just for emphases. It is not necesaty and could be omitted. "Девочка идёт в школу хотя хочет спать" - or Девочка идёт в школу хотя и хочет спать, а ты просто лентяй.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Peter643610

Thank you for helping me too. I mistranslated хотя as "though". Learnig Russian is fun but testing too.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dave168907

We do something similar in English with sentences like "I live in Seattle and study at the U."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wl48qY

Почему не спать пока в школе :D


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OlegK.

Спать пока в школе = To sleep while at school


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wl48qY

Да это мой совет девочке :p


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IAmBee

i think i am the girl


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OlegK.

You're in the army now,

Oh-oo-oh, you're in the army ... now!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bas857698

Why is "the girl goes to school ..." wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kirshner1

I was wondering too


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lina524944

"the girl goes to school..." - девочка ходит в школу. "Идёт" means she is going right now


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dora.18.09

Could I use " although" here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HussainBiedouh

When is (to = дла) and when is (to = В) ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OlegK.

Could you please rephrase your question? It is not clear what you're asking.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/isiah190

I believe he's asking when do you use "дла" and when do you use "в" when they both mean the same thing, "To"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OlegK.

"Для" usually means "for":

This book is for you = Эта книга - для тебя

This money is for presents = Эти деньги - для подарков

"В" is translated as "in, to, at" depending on the context.

He is at school = Он в школе

She is going to school = Она идёт в школу

She just walked in the building = Она только что вошла в здание


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HagaiReine

Because of the negation, I would use "would rather" instead of wants. "even though she would rather sleep." Would that look different in Russian?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/frenchrom

Does "despite" work as a translation for "хотя" in this sentence?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/markwoff

"The girl's going to school, even though she wants to sleep" does not use an incorrect word.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ruth440184

There are exceptions, but the use of contractions to remove the word "is" (as in "girl is" to "girl's") are not generally accepted by Duo. There's nothing technically wrong with your sentence (it would be considered unacceptable in very formal academic writing, but there is nothing wrong in informal writing or in speech with such contractions). With Duo, I have found that it is best not to try to contract "is" or "are," and just spell them out, with the understanding in my own mind that they are okay to write elsewhere. The reason I say that, is that my understanding is that each variant sentence (not just each variant word) has to be manually input by someone.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/julio873951

"despite" is right too


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rodrigo751611

Why is школа in accusative (школу)? I thought that в is followed by prepositional case (школе)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ruth440184

Rodrigo751611, в can be followed by the accusative case or the prepositional case. In this instance, в школу uses the “accusative of direction” - when speaking of directionality, accusative can be used (“to school”). If you used в школе (prepositional), you would be saying, “The girl is walking in the school, even though she wants to sleep.”


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/e_479

You can use "к школе" (prepositional). It may sound weird for a Russian speaker in that context, but it's still grammatical correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IamJustintime

The preposition к (ко) always takes the dative, not prepositional. Incidentally, both the dative & prepositional for школа is школе.

I couldn't say whether"Девочка идёт к школе." would sound natural/mean something else to a native speaker since I'm not one. Prepositions are never 1-1 in any language.

Side note: There's an (outdated & corny) alternative school advert outside my flat that says "Как Подготовить Ребенка к Школе в 2020 Году" roughly meaning "How to Prepare Your Child for School in 2020." I think that these vague "toward" instances & time-related phrases are the only ways I regularly encounter к. You will use в much more often than к.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IGa61

It should still be correct when you leave out the word "even. " Even is an unnecessary word in the translation. It is implied.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Clara57086

Same here, I also used "even though she would rather sleep" and it was marked wrong. In my opinion it should be correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/etaaramin

Is there a problem with "The girl is going to school despite wanting to sleep"? Because it seems more true to the Russian than the provided translation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/QurtQurt

The girl is walking to school even she's sleepy. - Does it sound natural to English ears?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ruth440184

You are missing “though.” You could say “...even though she’s sleepy,” or you could put “...though she’s sleepy.”

But “...even she’s sleepy” is incorrect because it is missing a word.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Akuhime-sama

ah, the life of a college student...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/springbok54

Although is also acceptable translation for хотя


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Yarik12

В задании нет слова "она"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SpokeMnemosyne

"The girl goes to school, even when wanting to sleep." I know that's kind of a gerund, but the meaning is correct--in English, anyway! How would this be constructed in Russian?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ViktorHovath

Why is хочет спать not equals "sleepy" in this sentence?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ruth440184

I agree, хотеть спать is to be sleepy. (Katzner's dictionary confirms this with an example sentence, I am sleepy, я хочу спать.¹) This would fit well within the sentence and would not drastically change any meaning.

¹ Katzner, Kenneth, English-Russian Russian-English Dictionary (New York: John Wiley & Sons, Inc., 1994), 417.

(I cannot help but cite; sorry, I have dwelt in academia too long. : If I didn't cite, I wouldn't sleep tonight. :) )


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/itsrogger

That's weird, I'm using the Android app and the sentence just came up already translated.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fatma784583

even if =even though


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ruth440184

Even if ≠ even though.

I will wash the dishes even if you are mad. This is a statement of possible conditionality; regardless of whether you're mad at me, I'll get them washed.

I will wash the dishes even though you are mad. This is a statement of fact; I know you are mad at me, and I will wash the dishes anyway.

The girl is going to school even if she wants to sleep. Possible conditionality; the girl may or may not be sleepy - we aren't sure.

The girl goes to school even though she wants to sleep. Statement of fact; the girl wants to sleep, but she is going anyway.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cactuswrenjp

I find it very difficult to distinguish девочка from девушка when listening to these exercises. Also determining whether the speaker is saying она (she) or Анна (the girl’s name, Anna) Any tips to help here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/larakovacjereb

I can only explain why она can sound just like Анна. Russian has a trait to pronounce every "о" as an "a" when there is no accent on that "o". In the word "она" the accent is on the -на, so the "о" is pronounced as "a"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JanetGidle

Yes. I have a lot of that. I tried listening 5 or 6 times to a word and eventually I could hear it very clearly most of the time.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kinay2

Why is "tired" not working here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Davishiro

How to not get confused about хотя and the verb want in russian?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Markus342007

Not an English native speaker here. Why is " despite wanting to sleep" wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NonPotableWater

It isn't, but there are many ways you can phrase it, it would be very hard for the Duolingo programmers to enter every way you could say it into the accepted answers. You'll be better off typing the answer in the most basic form possible. (Even though she wants to sleep)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JanetGidle

I get the subtle difference now between even though and although. However, does Duo accept although here as correct anyway?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mantrid_Brizon

Trabskating fron Russian I wrote, "..., though she wants to sleep" and it marked it wrong because I didn't say "even though"... Does that really matter at this point?!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/redactedname40

Goes or is going is not very different


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kevin-daw

In terms of native speakers they don't use the и after хотя and it doesn't mean even though it means although to be more precise


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/regexp1987

Why 'the girl goes to school even though she wants sleep' is incorrect?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PtitJesus

Сould you say "Девочка идёт в школу, пока хочет спать." ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/E-chan.

This would mean "The girl is going to school while she wants to sleep". And as soon as she wakes up completely she probably would change her mind and go somewhere else.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jaap_R

What's the difference between девочка and девушка ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jhshuw3O_Ru71oq

'девочка' younger than 'девушка'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TaraFarsadfar

I write "the girl's going" instead of "the girl is going" and it seems wrong to Duolingo!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dgs.astgh

Anyone else failing the English part more than the Russian? I aperantly cant speak my native language as gooder as i thinked i could. Lol


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Real_Malu

Despite should be good too, right?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HienzTayon

What's the "и" doing in here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gian209131

1) I don't get the difference between хотя and зато

2) I don't get why there's и after хотя


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Anuta1003

Что не правильно? Я написала также, как и в ответе.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/E-chan.

На этот вопрос невозможно ответить, если вы не привели здесь свой ответ. В 9 случаях из 10 проблема в случайной опечатке, случайно забытом или повторенном дважды слове.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JanetGidle

Wow, I really wish I could understand this info. Anyone want to translate it?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/E-chan.

The user asked what's wrong with their answer. I replied that there is no way to know it unless they post their answer here. In 9 cases out of 10, the problem is an unnoticed typo, missed word or word repeated twice.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gumarcher

why школу and not школе (prepositional object)? Does в take accusative object when it refers to "to"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/roy229282

Correct solution: Девочка идёт в школу, хотя и хочет спать. unfortunately you have not included the 'и' in the words to be used


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/QuentinFeduchin

Are you actually learning on 20 languages?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ola621547

I got it right except I wrote "tho"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AntonioJni65

Is it wrong to put "Она" before "хочет"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ben923802

Like my daughter


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DomiMino

In the new lay-out - which I really don't like and came unannounced - the solution hides what the student writes so it is not always possible to compare and see what was wrong


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JanetGidle

That's not good. For some reason mine, on my Android phone, has not done that to me. Report or flag it.


[deactivated user]

    Story of my life


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/monikyut

    I feel you, girl


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/josdejong1

    I translated this sentence right..wrote one o. Too in stead of to ????


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Eijaliisa

    What happened! I write 3 times write answer, but program says its wrong! How can I continue?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/QuentinFeduchin

    Here is a memory thing I use: "я идёт едят у вас дети". "I am going to eat your children". It helps me remember those darned "д" words..


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JanetGidle

    Sorry, but you just wrote I he goes they eat your children have! Nice try though!

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