"Мой брат хочет поступить на юридический факультет."
Translation:My brother wants to get into Law school.
58 Comments
385
"Faculty" is a false friend of a translator. The Russian word "факультет" is translated as "school" (school of law, school of business, school of education) or sometimes "department". The word "faculty" is translated into Russian as "преподаватели факультета", "преподавательский состав".
Plenty of universities in the US use faculty in a similar sense, though (cf. "Faculty of Arts and Sciences" at Harvard). It's usually a level or two up from "department" though. We also use "school" as a similar category, further complicating the issue.
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I'm not surprised that in one of the oldest universities of the US it is called "faculty": the name was given back in 1890, and at that time this word was the equivalent of the Russian "факультет".
I must also add that in the US, "факультет" can translate to college as well. A college is within the university (college of science, college of law, etc), and a department is within a college (department of chemistry, department of statistics, etc). Although this can be confusing because universities are also referred to as colleges, which in this context translates to "университет" in Russian. And "колледж" is more like a community college, junior college, technical college, etc.
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Since we're talking about a department of a university, the English should be "...to get into the Law School." That is, unless факултет refers to schools in general. When I say, "I went to law school", that means I went to a law school somewhere, but if I'm talking about a law school at a university, I'd say, "I went to the Law School at the University of Michigan". This exercise sounds more like it's considering the latter, and thus should be "the Law School", not just "Law school".
In Russian universities, departments are called факультеты. The word does not refer to any school, but every university has юридический факультет which is the Law School. In the UK, the word “faculty” is used the same way as the Russian word факультет, but, in the US, “faculty” is a collective noun equivalent to the Russian phrase «преподавательский состав» or the word «преподаватели».
I didn't mean that it's incorrect, but in my American life, yes, it does sound like a foreigner speaking. This isn't a regional or dictionary argument.
I have never seen "get into" in any university or college catalog in the United States (and I was admitted to five as a student). I don't object if Duolingo accepts uneducated colloquialisms, but is ludicrous for Duolingo to red-X proper English that would be understood by anyone who seriously intended to matriculate at a university.
Congratulations on your education. You can be proud. I studied in three universities myself, and I never saw the term "entering the university" used anywhere in writing with the exception of an "entrance exam". The terms were along the lines of accepted, enrolled, qualified, commencement, even "begin studies," but never "enter" as far as the affirmative result of the application process. If you walk in the door, THEN you entered. I don't think the phrase here is wrong. I'm not trying to have anything "Red X'd." It just sounds uncommon where I've lived. I've come to understand that different dialects of English are used in Duolingo as a result of the international nature of the "Incubators" and contributors.
Before criticizing "enter" you might google "to enter Harvard", "to enter Princeton", "to enter Yale", "to enter the university of" (as exact phrases within quotation marks). You might find the name of a good school (Harvey Mudd?) that does not return several hits, but I think you can convince yourself that "enter" is frequently used in the U.S. and in many other countries.
I guess you like to write and argue, but you don't like to read. If you read what I wrote, then you saw that I said that I don't think it's wrong, Genius. So google away to your heart's content. You can enter any university. Just walk through the door.
It seems like there must be some measure of national differences in college admission practices bound up in this word. OlegK lays out that the precise sense is "it implies that one passed certain qualification criteria ... to get into the school." This is in concord with the provided translation.
However, to me this is in no way synonymous with "entering" or "matriculating at" a university. In the US, it's reasonably common for students to apply and "get into" even a dozen universities. Of course they only matriculate at one. I'd be very curious to know if it's something in the Russian institutional set-up that leads to these two concepts being much more closely connected. Or is it just a case of the same word having two related but distinct senses that the English speaking mind posits would be awfully hard to distinguish from context (à la "hôte" meaning both "host" and "guest" in French)?
Agreed. We need to know whether the term means "to qualify for" (i.e. pass access requirements) or "qualify and register" (i.e. matriculate). Since our brother presumably does not want to qualify but not go, the two senses are almost indistinguishable in this sentence, but that will not be true of all uses.
Поступил actually means "был зачислен" (was enrolled), so "matriculated" should be accepted in the translation. The best Russian equivalent of 'got into' is "набрал проходной балл для поступления в"
@ Dmitry_Arch Thank you! So there is actually a fixed cutoff, and everybody who meets it gets in? Or is the проходной балл set separately each e.g. year so that the desired number of students is admitted?
I don't really think they're indistinguishable. You'd celebrate "getting in" by going out and partying with your friends, likely in April of your last year of college. You'd "celebrate" matriculating in early September by buying textbooks and scurrying to find out what your hundreds of pages of required reading are for your first day of 1L!
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I've attended four colleges/universities, and nobody ever talked about "entering" any of them, especially when it mean being admitted to the university to study as a student.
The fact that "get into" doesn't appear in a school catalog is irrelevant to the present discussion. Catalogs generally talked about admission, being admitted - maybe even enter a particular school. But we're not talking about catalogs.
Saying "I entered Harvard" instead of "I got into/was admitted to Harvard" makes you sound like you're not from the US. Maybe it works in other English-speaking countries - if that's true, then it should be accepted.
Does прступить have the sense of being accepted or can it mean "enroll in" or "enter" (which was not accepted?
- 385
The verb "поступить" has several different meanings, but when used with school/college/university, it implies that one passed certain qualification criteria (high school diploma, entrance exam, aptitude test score, etc.) to get into the school. I believe in this sense "enter the university" is an adequate translation for "поступить в университет", and it should be accepted.
I've never heard of "entering a university," except in the physical sense. It's always been "accepted into" or "qualified for." There is such a thing as an entrance exam, though.
- 385
"Enter the university" = "поступить в университет". I can assure you that native speakers will get this exact meaning when you use the phrase. At least I never had people raise their eyebrows when I used this phrase in US or Canada. :)
Of course native speakers will understand. That's not the issue. They were polite that they didn't raise an eyebrow. "Getting into " or "got into" [UCLA] is common colloquially. "Entered" is NOT wrong but is unnatural and sounds like a foreign speaker speaking. Unless, you're in the parking lot, and one of your friends is suddenly gone. "Where's Linda?" -"She entered the university. " I won't argue this if we're talking about some regional differences. I grew up in the Western United States and have travelled all over America and both Canadian coasts. It is possible that "entering a university" is used somewhere but not commonly in the USA.
- 385
Merriam-Webster dictionary lists this as one of the meanings for the transitive verb "enter":
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/enter
Perhaps politeness was not the only reason I was understood on all those occasions?
I'm not trying to argue this. I'm talking about colloquial speech, and you're giving me dictionary. Bottom line, it sounds unnatural. You sound like a foreigner if you say "enter a university," unless you mean actually entering a university. Incidentally, if you use "enter" for acceptance into the university, how would you say somebody actually entering? "Walking into"?
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Your initial comment was that you've never heard the phrase "enter the university" being used as "поступить в университет". My reference to the dictionary of American English was to demonstrate the accepted use of the verb "to enter" in the sense "to be admitted / to get into the university". A web page from Princeton University has the phrase In fact, the valedictorian of the Princeton Class of ’02 was home schooled before entering Princeton.
https://admission.princeton.edu/applyingforadmission/admission-faqs/eligibility
Colloquial equivalents are a different topic. If they sound more natural to you, it still does not make the phrase "to enter the university" foreign or incorrect.
There is also nothing wrong with using the verb "to enter" in the sense of "entering the building". Just like the Russian verb "входить" can deliver a variety of meanings: entering a building, being a member of a group, being included into something, etc.
A previous sentence with law school replaced by college "accepted into" was also a correct answer, but this time it is not for some reason.
I didn't say it's wrong, People! So stop sending links with "entering a university." I get it, thanks. Anyway this is Russian, not English, so as long as the Russian is correct, we're fine. Believe me, I regret bringing it up. By the way, входить в университет, так говорят на русском?
I agree with you, Vadim! It may be more casual, but I think it is the way that most of America, well-educated or not, speaks.
Dmitry_Arch has cleared up the confusion about the meaning of the verb. Duo should not, then, propose "get into," which is different from "enroll" or "matriculate," as a good translation. It's not getting accepted but actually going to the law school that is meant here.
As for Faculty, my take is that an institution may officially call one of its branches a "faculty," but in normal usage such as this sentence, we would still call it a "law school." If I'm being formal, I might say (or write) that I am officially enrolled as a student in the Faculty of Arts and Sciences at Harvard, so my brother could conceivably say that he "wants to enroll in the Faculty of Law" at the (understood) university.
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In this case we conjugate it using the accusative case: "он хочет поступить [на кого?/на что?/куда?] - на юридический факультет".
The phrase "He is studying in the school of law" - "Он учится на юридическом факультете" - uses prepositional case: "он учится [на ком?/на чем?/где?] - на юридическом факультете".
- 1107
Is it possible that it's nominative? I found one reference to в + [nominative], where it meant joining, becoming a member of a group.
Not that it makes much difference, since the endings are the same.
By definition, nominative case forms cannot follow a preposition, but other case forms can. So it is the accusative that we are dealing with here.
Only verbs are conjugated; nouns, pronouns, adjectives and numerals are declinated. Otherwise, you are absolutely right.
The "legal department" implies within a larger corporation, like the legal department for Banc Suisse. Юридический факультет means the School of Law at a university.
I have an issue with the lesson not highlighting the new words and I don't have the "other" option available to report it.
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Dumb question, but why is the word law capitalized in the English translation? This is the type of school not a proper noun as in Lawrence school of law. I've seen odd capitalizations before in the course, and юридический does not appear to be capitalized here in the Russian version.
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If "Law School" is the official name of the school, then both should be capitalized. If not, then neither should be. Having just one word capitalized is wrong.
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Because it's the Law Almighty, and you're supposed to tremble in the face of it! :)
I agree, now capitalization is needed here.
Since the sentence as translated does not refer to a specific school, neither should be capitalized. If it did, both Law and School should be capitalized.
There are three distinct stages here with different English terms in my East-Coast American dialect. First you "apply" to a school; then you are either "accepted" or not, or in common parlance you "get into" a school; then you "enter," "enroll in," "matriculate at," or "begin studies at," which three may include by implication the two prior steps. "Get into" is ambiguous since it does not necessarily imply that you actually "go to" the school. You can say "I got into Harvard, but I decided to join the navy instead." To be "admitted to" implies that you actually "enter," but the meaning is somewhere between to be "accepted" and "enter," but without qualification suggests you enter. "Go to" and "attend" include the whole process, and in certain contexts can be used even if you finish or are graduated or get a degree. Which of the synonyms you choose depends on level: "get into" and "go to" are common speech. "be accepted" and "attend" are more formal. "Enter" and "enroll in" are also formal (mostly written) and specifically about beginning study, so usually with a time expressed. "Matriculate" will seen in official publications, but hardly ever spoken; it includes "register," which is specifically the act of signing the paperwork (as at a hotel). So the question is, would this sentence be interpreted by a native speaker to mean he wants to go to law school, or is it more specific?
Literally, the Russian sentence means "My brother wants to go to the Law School", but the implication is he wants to be admitted there. That means that, in all likelihood, he is applying or has already applied to the Law School.
