"Мамаипапавпарке."

Translation:Mom and dad are in the park.

3 years ago

52 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/MikeyRadles

Have I just remembered something incorrectly or was park not "парк" previously? Like in Где парк? Does anyone know the reason behind this? Thanks in advance...

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/eclairevoyant
eclairevoyant
  • 14
  • 10
  • 10
  • 9
  • 7
  • 6
  • 6
  • 4
  • 3

«парк» is singular nominative and accusative, «парке» is singular prepositional.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Maxim_SMWD
Maxim_SMWD
  • 25
  • 25
  • 25
  • 25
  • 22
  • 19
  • 18
  • 13
  • 13
  • 11
  • 10
  • 8
  • 6
  • 1122

Correct me if I am wrong, but does that mean the only thing you have to do to make is prepositional is add the 'e'?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MikeyRadles

A lot of the time yes, and the good news is that with singular nouns at least, the prepositional is the easiest case to learn (together with the accusative maybe). But not ALL the time. Take a look at this website for a more thorough explanation of when to add "e" and when to add something else: http://www.russianlessons.net/grammar/nouns_prepositional.php. On the left of that page that you can also look up how to form the other cases in the majority of cases. Of course, there are always exceptions. For those, I'd recommend remembering which are the "exception" words and then using: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D0%BB%D0%B5%D1%81. Go to Russian and then click "Declension", and you'll see all the case forms. (I used "лес" as an example because it has an unusual form in the prepositional.)

Edit: Apologies, that might have been misleading. Whilst "лес" does have an unusual form when used after "в", this should technically be called the "locative" case. You will learn this later in the course, but for now, you will certainly benefit from using the above sites.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MikeyRadles

I won't delete this comment (in case anyone else makes the same mistake as me) but this question is answered in the comments at the start of the "module" or "section" or whatever you want to call it. Sorry about that... consider me duly reprimanded (by myself!)!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Loganpup1

I find these comments extremely helpful. I do 99% of duolingo on the app which doesn't look like it has the lesson notes.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MikeyRadles

That is correct. That's why I did not delete (my own) question, so those without the notes would be able to get the benefit.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/bpg031000

Which section do you find it? I've only gone through Basics 2, so I guess I'm getting this question a little early. Don't think we've seen anything about cases yet.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Robert_Andersson

Ok, the preposition "в" triggers the prepositional case and there for "парк" becomes "парке" in "в парке". But one of the first tasks on "Duolingo" was to translate "Мой багаж в такси" and "Дзенни в метро". Are both "такси" & "метро" in the propositional case? If so, what words is used in the nominative case?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MikeyRadles

Yes, "такси" and "метро" are (in theory) in the prepositional case. However, because they are loan words from other languages, they do not decline in the same way as other nouns. (That is, they are indeclinable). Thus "такси" and "метро" are the same in all cases. You can find more information here: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BA%D1%81%D0%B8; https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D0%BC%D0%B5%D1%82%D1%80%D0%BE#Noun_2.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Robert_Andersson

Thank you for responding! Благодарю вас!

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MikeyRadles

No problem. Just so you know, the preposition "в" doesn't trigger the prepositional case as such. Instead, "в" followed by the prepositional has the specific meaning of "in" (meaning within or inside the confines of a space). If "в" is followed by the accusative then in general this has the meaning of movement in "to" the given space. Я иду в парк, for example, translates as "I'm going (on foot) to the park".

Please note, however, that whilst I am pretty sure what I just said is correct, I am not a native speaker of Russian, and I'm quite willing to stand corrected! Perhaps, if no one corrects me directly, keep an eye out for my theory in action as you move through the levels :-)

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Kavadera
Kavadera
  • 25
  • 10
  • 7
  • 5
  • 1168

Yes, you're correct. (Native Russian)

This logic is BTW completely the same in Deutsch: "into" is accusative, "inside" is dative for lack of prepositional case.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/pat5120
pat5120
  • 22
  • 12
  • 10
  • 9
  • 9
  • 6
  • 4
  • 4
  • 2

It's even easier when comparing with Deutsch! Thanks a lot!

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Robert_Andersson

Interesting. I will. Thank you very much for responding! Благодарб вас!

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/only_human
only_human
  • 25
  • 22
  • 22
  • 14
  • 14
  • 12
  • 12
  • 12
  • 9
  • 8
  • 8
  • 8
  • 7
  • 7
  • 7
  • 6
  • 6
  • 6
  • 6
  • 6
  • 6

The preposition "в" seems to be hard to hear. I could only discern it on slow speed. Is it hard to hear for a native speaker, or anyone else?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Shady_arc
Shady_arc
Mod
  • 13
  • 13
  • 11
  • 9
  • 7

Nope, it is easy to hear. What else can the sound you hear between the "папа" and the "парк" represent? It is not that Russian had a preposition that sounds «ф».

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/A_User
A_User
  • 23
  • 11
  • 9
  • 7
  • 7
  • 7
  • 6
  • 4
  • 3
  • 3
  • 2
  • 2
  • 2
  • 2

I don't have trouble with it either, and I most definitely am not a native speaker.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Shady_arc
Shady_arc
Mod
  • 13
  • 13
  • 11
  • 9
  • 7

I bet you have some trouble pronouncing things like "в парке" or "хлеб", though :)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/NicolasBou855167

He wouldn't be the only one... my (Russian) wife rather frequently teases me for my pronunciation of "хлеб" or, lately, "мышь"...

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Kavadera
Kavadera
  • 25
  • 10
  • 7
  • 5
  • 1168

I'm pretty sure you have problems with pronouncing "ле", because that's what gives away many Americans and British trying to speak Russian. French don't have that problem though :-)

And the "ы" sound of course, that's quite unique, never found it in any other language.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/NicolasBou855167

My mother tongue is actually French, so I don't have any problems there :). So far, it really has been only "хлеб" and anything with "ы"... I wonder what it will be next~

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Sean_Roy
Sean_RoyPlus
  • 16
  • 14
  • 14
  • 13
  • 12
  • 10
  • 9
  • 8
  • 8
  • 8
  • 6
  • 6
  • 5
  • 5
  • 4
  • 3
  • 2
  • 2
  • 2
  • 23

Yes! Another one: является

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/A_User
A_User
  • 23
  • 11
  • 9
  • 7
  • 7
  • 7
  • 6
  • 4
  • 3
  • 3
  • 2
  • 2
  • 2
  • 2

Not to much trouble with "в парке", actually. But "хлеб", yes, because I haven't fully figured out how to get the right sound when I'm trying to say"х".

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Shady_arc
Shady_arc
Mod
  • 13
  • 13
  • 11
  • 9
  • 7

Hm... It is approximately the same place in your mouth where you say the "K". But, while [k] is an abrupt sound, suddenly interrupting the airflow, for a Х your go in and go out smoothly, like in a "sh".

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/A_User
A_User
  • 23
  • 11
  • 9
  • 7
  • 7
  • 7
  • 6
  • 4
  • 3
  • 3
  • 2
  • 2
  • 2
  • 2

I think this is one of those things I need demonstrations. :-( I just don't seem to be able to get my mouth to behave how I want it to. Since you used "хлеб" as an example, is that related to "хлебом"?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/A_User
A_User
  • 23
  • 11
  • 9
  • 7
  • 7
  • 7
  • 6
  • 4
  • 3
  • 3
  • 2
  • 2
  • 2
  • 2

Yes, I can pronounce "hue", but I think native English speakers do it a bit differently. I know Scottish "loch" is the same sound, but I can never say that correctly either.

Thanks! Now I wonder why I knew the word хлебом. :-)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/A_User
A_User
  • 23
  • 11
  • 9
  • 7
  • 7
  • 7
  • 6
  • 4
  • 3
  • 3
  • 2
  • 2
  • 2
  • 2

I just went on Forvo and listened to you pronounce a few words containing х, and it definitely isn't the same sound as the h in hue. I can hear in my head how х should be pronounced, I can just never actually say it that way.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Shady_arc
Shady_arc
Mod
  • 13
  • 13
  • 11
  • 9
  • 7

It isn't, though, probably, if you listen to химия, it won't be as jarring. Try moving your tongue a bit, using the middle part of your tongue in different ways. It is not like this sound is complicated, and maybe you even did it in your life. You simply never used exactly that position in a language.

You don't need to be perfect anyway. Just make it feel comfortable enough, so that words like хлеб, охрана and мягкий (actually, /мяхкий/ is the recommended pronounciation) do not cause too much trouble. Maybe this is the whole point of learning the correct pronunciation: if you get close, pronouncing different vowel and consonant combinations becomes easier than when you use sounds that are way off.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/A_User
A_User
  • 23
  • 11
  • 9
  • 7
  • 7
  • 7
  • 6
  • 4
  • 3
  • 3
  • 2
  • 2
  • 2
  • 2

Maybe it's just complicated for me. :-)

I generally come up with either something like h or something like k. I suppose the h would be closer? I wouldn't say that's the whole point of learning the pronunciation. You also learn it so that other people can have a clue what on earth you were just saying. :-)

I know I don't have to be perfect, but unfortunately (in this case), I'm rather a perfectionist. :-) I'm working on it, though, and one of these days I will get it right.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Shady_arc
Shady_arc
Mod
  • 13
  • 13
  • 11
  • 9
  • 7

Well, I am sure you can pronounce "hue", do you? Actually, even the "y" in "yacht" gives you an idea of the smooth motion you do. Just the place is somewhat different and the shape of the tongue not the same.

хлебом is a form of хлеб. Each noun that isn't indeclinable (some loanwords just do not fit the patterns) has them. Хлебом is the Instrumental singular (other examples include молоком and even днём, ночью, вечером, утром, зимой, летом, осенью and весной—a number of time expressions come from Instrumental forms of corresponding nouns).

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Kavadera
Kavadera
  • 25
  • 10
  • 7
  • 5
  • 1168

But there is the same sound in English. For example in the word "Hope".

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Shady_arc
Shady_arc
Mod
  • 13
  • 13
  • 11
  • 9
  • 7

@Kavadera: it is pretty well known these sounds are not the same. I wonder where you got the impression they are. Surely, in this day and age it is easy to check which sounds they are and even listen to how people pronounce them.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/A_User
A_User
  • 23
  • 11
  • 9
  • 7
  • 7
  • 7
  • 6
  • 4
  • 3
  • 3
  • 2
  • 2
  • 2
  • 2

That might be regional, I suppose, because I've never heard the h in hope said the way I've heard х. Where are you from?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/A_User
A_User
  • 23
  • 11
  • 9
  • 7
  • 7
  • 7
  • 6
  • 4
  • 3
  • 3
  • 2
  • 2
  • 2
  • 2

Хорошо does sound much more like an English h, but compare hope with успех. The х is clearly a different sound.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/A_User
A_User
  • 23
  • 11
  • 9
  • 7
  • 7
  • 7
  • 6
  • 4
  • 3
  • 3
  • 2
  • 2
  • 2
  • 2

I think that's a slightly different sound. I've heard native speakers say "х" a few times, and it doesn't sound quite the same.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Kavadera
Kavadera
  • 25
  • 10
  • 7
  • 5
  • 1168

@kavadera, @A_User

You gotta be kidding me! Please listen to words "Hope" and "Хорошо" and say where is the difference?

It's just ridiculous, because there is no difference. I've been living abroad for several years when I was little. I have never had problems communicating in English. Now I live in Russia and still have calls with foreign colleagues in English. Based on my 15 years of practising English I can say that even if there is some difference between "h" sound in "hope" and sound for Russian "х", it's SOOOOOOOOO vague and SOOOOOOOOOO insignificant, that you may ignore it and everybody will understand you clearly.

And one more point: letter "х" in Russian language is always pronounced the same. There is no difference between "успех" and "хорошо" concerning "х" pronounciation.

I don't want to argue anymore. If you don't believe me, it's you choice.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/diogo8484

Why do we use на referring to a concert, like in "Я на конце́рте", but в referring to a park, since they are very similar places?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Kavadera
Kavadera
  • 25
  • 10
  • 7
  • 5
  • 1168

"На" is used with some events. For example a concert, a party, a meeting, etc.

"В" is used with some areas. For example a park, a village, a city, etc.

However there are some not very logical combinations. For example:

  • "В отпуске" - on a holiday
  • "На море" - on a seaside
  • "В беде" - in trouble
  • "На курорте" - in a resort

I'm not trying to frighten you, but bare in mind that preposition is one of the most difficult part of any foreign language. Don't try to find the 100% logic, you will get used to these exclusions one day, just keep practising. Actually, trying different prepositions is not always wrong, it may just vary the meaning. For example:

  • "В море" - in the sea
  • "На деревне" - in the whole village (for example "Первый парень на деревне" translates "the best guy in the whole village", quite a common saying meaning a handsome man)
2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Shady_arc
Shady_arc
Mod
  • 13
  • 13
  • 11
  • 9
  • 7

Some of this seems pretty random, however, it is pretty easy with words like "concert" and "park". A park is a place with clearly defined borders, whereas a concert is not even a place, but rather an event.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/LingvaLupo

Just a site-usage question: Is there a way to redo the current page/question? I mistyped something in this one and then, when I went to backspace, I accidentally hit "enter" without having even a full word entered. Of course, the entry was marked as incorrect, but I couldn't see any way to fix it.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Kavadera
Kavadera
  • 25
  • 10
  • 7
  • 5
  • 1168

No, there is no way to do that.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Robert_Andersson

Well, sometimes life is unfair. But don't worry, be happy! ☺

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PaulBurrow7

I found the "and" difficult to hear, so it sounded as though was saying "mum, dad is in the park"

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PiotrWielk2
PiotrWielk2
  • 15
  • 12
  • 11
  • 6
  • 3
  • 2
  • 2
  • 2

damn, why doesn't it accept "Mom and dad in the park" - it is also the same meaning of "Mama i papa v parke".

9 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/OliverChar7

should Accept Papa for папа

7 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/DogePamyuPamyu

я в метрО а они в паркЕ... whyyyyyyy? I don't understand why doesn't metro need propositional case ending?

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ahau.3
ahau.3
  • 25
  • 23
  • 18
  • 16
  • 16
  • 16
  • 15
  • 13
  • 11
  • 9
  • 9
  • 7
  • 7
  • 7
  • 6
  • 6
  • 6
  • 4
  • 2
  • 8

Loanwords are indeclinable, that's why. Read first, then ask, your question was already answered in this thread :)

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Shady_arc
Shady_arc
Mod
  • 13
  • 13
  • 11
  • 9
  • 7

It is not as though парк is not a loanword.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/GuilhermeH615416
GuilhermeH615416
  • 21
  • 14
  • 14
  • 11
  • 9
  • 20

It is a loan word from othet language, and it doesn't decline as other nouns

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Shady_arc
Shady_arc
Mod
  • 13
  • 13
  • 11
  • 9
  • 7

As is парк, which does decline like other nouns.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mostafa.sayed22

предложный падеж

2 years ago
Learn Russian in just 5 minutes a day. For free.