"Мама и папа в парке."

Translation:Mom and dad are in the park.

November 23, 2015

55 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MikeyRadles

Have I just remembered something incorrectly or was park not "парк" previously? Like in Где парк? Does anyone know the reason behind this? Thanks in advance...

November 25, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/eclairevoyant

«парк» is singular nominative and accusative, «парке» is singular prepositional.

January 17, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Maxim_SMWD

Correct me if I am wrong, but does that mean the only thing you have to do to make is prepositional is add the 'e'?

April 25, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MikeyRadles

A lot of the time yes, and the good news is that with singular nouns at least, the prepositional is the easiest case to learn (together with the accusative maybe). But not ALL the time. Take a look at this website for a more thorough explanation of when to add "e" and when to add something else: http://www.russianlessons.net/grammar/nouns_prepositional.php. On the left of that page that you can also look up how to form the other cases in the majority of cases. Of course, there are always exceptions. For those, I'd recommend remembering which are the "exception" words and then using: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D0%BB%D0%B5%D1%81. Go to Russian and then click "Declension", and you'll see all the case forms. (I used "лес" as an example because it has an unusual form in the prepositional.)

Edit: Apologies, that might have been misleading. Whilst "лес" does have an unusual form when used after "в", this should technically be called the "locative" case. You will learn this later in the course, but for now, you will certainly benefit from using the above sites.

April 26, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MikeyRadles

I won't delete this comment (in case anyone else makes the same mistake as me) but this question is answered in the comments at the start of the "module" or "section" or whatever you want to call it. Sorry about that... consider me duly reprimanded (by myself!)!

November 25, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Loganpup1

I find these comments extremely helpful. I do 99% of duolingo on the app which doesn't look like it has the lesson notes.

February 11, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MikeyRadles

That is correct. That's why I did not delete (my own) question, so those without the notes would be able to get the benefit.

February 11, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bpg031000

Which section do you find it? I've only gone through Basics 2, so I guess I'm getting this question a little early. Don't think we've seen anything about cases yet.

September 4, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Robert_Andersson

Ok, the preposition "в" triggers the prepositional case and there for "парк" becomes "парке" in "в парке". But one of the first tasks on "Duolingo" was to translate "Мой багаж в такси" and "Дзенни в метро". Are both "такси" & "метро" in the propositional case? If so, what words is used in the nominative case?

February 22, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MikeyRadles

Yes, "такси" and "метро" are (in theory) in the prepositional case. However, because they are loan words from other languages, they do not decline in the same way as other nouns. (That is, they are indeclinable). Thus "такси" and "метро" are the same in all cases. You can find more information here: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BA%D1%81%D0%B8; https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D0%BC%D0%B5%D1%82%D1%80%D0%BE#Noun_2.

February 22, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Robert_Andersson

Thank you for responding! Благодарю вас!

February 22, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MikeyRadles

No problem. Just so you know, the preposition "в" doesn't trigger the prepositional case as such. Instead, "в" followed by the prepositional has the specific meaning of "in" (meaning within or inside the confines of a space). If "в" is followed by the accusative then in general this has the meaning of movement in "to" the given space. Я иду в парк, for example, translates as "I'm going (on foot) to the park".

Please note, however, that whilst I am pretty sure what I just said is correct, I am not a native speaker of Russian, and I'm quite willing to stand corrected! Perhaps, if no one corrects me directly, keep an eye out for my theory in action as you move through the levels :-)

February 22, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kavadera

Yes, you're correct. (Native Russian)

This logic is BTW completely the same in Deutsch: "into" is accusative, "inside" is dative for lack of prepositional case.

February 24, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pat5120

It's even easier when comparing with Deutsch! Thanks a lot!

July 1, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Robert_Andersson

Interesting. I will. Thank you very much for responding! Благодарб вас!

February 22, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LingvaLupo

Just a site-usage question: Is there a way to redo the current page/question? I mistyped something in this one and then, when I went to backspace, I accidentally hit "enter" without having even a full word entered. Of course, the entry was marked as incorrect, but I couldn't see any way to fix it.

November 23, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kavadera

No, there is no way to do that.

November 24, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Robert_Andersson

Well, sometimes life is unfair. But don't worry, be happy! ☺

February 22, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/only_human

The preposition "в" seems to be hard to hear. I could only discern it on slow speed. Is it hard to hear for a native speaker, or anyone else?

November 24, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shady_arc

Nope, it is easy to hear. What else can the sound you hear between the "папа" and the "парк" represent? It is not that Russian had a preposition that sounds «ф».

November 24, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/A_User

I don't have trouble with it either, and I most definitely am not a native speaker.

November 24, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shady_arc

I bet you have some trouble pronouncing things like "в парке" or "хлеб", though :)

November 24, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NicolasBou855167

He wouldn't be the only one... my (Russian) wife rather frequently teases me for my pronunciation of "хлеб" or, lately, "мышь"...

December 2, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kavadera

I'm pretty sure you have problems with pronouncing "ле", because that's what gives away many Americans and British trying to speak Russian. French don't have that problem though :-)

And the "ы" sound of course, that's quite unique, never found it in any other language.

December 2, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NicolasBou855167

My mother tongue is actually French, so I don't have any problems there :). So far, it really has been only "хлеб" and anything with "ы"... I wonder what it will be next~

December 3, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sean_Roy

Yes! Another one: является

December 21, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/A_User

Not to much trouble with "в парке", actually. But "хлеб", yes, because I haven't fully figured out how to get the right sound when I'm trying to say"х".

November 24, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shady_arc

Hm... It is approximately the same place in your mouth where you say the "K". But, while [k] is an abrupt sound, suddenly interrupting the airflow, for a Х your go in and go out smoothly, like in a "sh".

November 24, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/A_User

I think this is one of those things I need demonstrations. :-( I just don't seem to be able to get my mouth to behave how I want it to. Since you used "хлеб" as an example, is that related to "хлебом"?

November 24, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/A_User

Yes, I can pronounce "hue", but I think native English speakers do it a bit differently. I know Scottish "loch" is the same sound, but I can never say that correctly either.

Thanks! Now I wonder why I knew the word хлебом. :-)

November 24, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/A_User

I just went on Forvo and listened to you pronounce a few words containing х, and it definitely isn't the same sound as the h in hue. I can hear in my head how х should be pronounced, I can just never actually say it that way.

November 24, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shady_arc

It isn't, though, probably, if you listen to химия, it won't be as jarring. Try moving your tongue a bit, using the middle part of your tongue in different ways. It is not like this sound is complicated, and maybe you even did it in your life. You simply never used exactly that position in a language.

You don't need to be perfect anyway. Just make it feel comfortable enough, so that words like хлеб, охрана and мягкий (actually, /мяхкий/ is the recommended pronounciation) do not cause too much trouble. Maybe this is the whole point of learning the correct pronunciation: if you get close, pronouncing different vowel and consonant combinations becomes easier than when you use sounds that are way off.

November 24, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/A_User

Maybe it's just complicated for me. :-)

I generally come up with either something like h or something like k. I suppose the h would be closer? I wouldn't say that's the whole point of learning the pronunciation. You also learn it so that other people can have a clue what on earth you were just saying. :-)

I know I don't have to be perfect, but unfortunately (in this case), I'm rather a perfectionist. :-) I'm working on it, though, and one of these days I will get it right.

November 24, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shady_arc

Well, I am sure you can pronounce "hue", do you? Actually, even the "y" in "yacht" gives you an idea of the smooth motion you do. Just the place is somewhat different and the shape of the tongue not the same.

хлебом is a form of хлеб. Each noun that isn't indeclinable (some loanwords just do not fit the patterns) has them. Хлебом is the Instrumental singular (other examples include молоком and even днём, ночью, вечером, утром, зимой, летом, осенью and весной—a number of time expressions come from Instrumental forms of corresponding nouns).

November 24, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kavadera

But there is the same sound in English. For example in the word "Hope".

November 24, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shady_arc

@Kavadera: it is pretty well known these sounds are not the same. I wonder where you got the impression they are. Surely, in this day and age it is easy to check which sounds they are and even listen to how people pronounce them.

November 24, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/A_User

That might be regional, I suppose, because I've never heard the h in hope said the way I've heard х. Where are you from?

November 24, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/A_User

Хорошо does sound much more like an English h, but compare hope with успех. The х is clearly a different sound.

November 25, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/A_User

I think that's a slightly different sound. I've heard native speakers say "х" a few times, and it doesn't sound quite the same.

November 24, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kavadera

@kavadera, @A_User

You gotta be kidding me! Please listen to words "Hope" and "Хорошо" and say where is the difference?

It's just ridiculous, because there is no difference. I've been living abroad for several years when I was little. I have never had problems communicating in English. Now I live in Russia and still have calls with foreign colleagues in English. Based on my 15 years of practising English I can say that even if there is some difference between "h" sound in "hope" and sound for Russian "х", it's SOOOOOOOOO vague and SOOOOOOOOOO insignificant, that you may ignore it and everybody will understand you clearly.

And one more point: letter "х" in Russian language is always pronounced the same. There is no difference between "успех" and "хорошо" concerning "х" pronounciation.

I don't want to argue anymore. If you don't believe me, it's you choice.

November 24, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/diogo8484

Why do we use на referring to a concert, like in "Я на конце́рте", but в referring to a park, since they are very similar places?

January 30, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kavadera

"На" is used with some events. For example a concert, a party, a meeting, etc.

"В" is used with some areas. For example a park, a village, a city, etc.

However there are some not very logical combinations. For example:

  • "В отпуске" - on a holiday
  • "На море" - on a seaside
  • "В беде" - in trouble
  • "На курорте" - in a resort

I'm not trying to frighten you, but bare in mind that preposition is one of the most difficult part of any foreign language. Don't try to find the 100% logic, you will get used to these exclusions one day, just keep practising. Actually, trying different prepositions is not always wrong, it may just vary the meaning. For example:

  • "В море" - in the sea
  • "На деревне" - in the whole village (for example "Первый парень на деревне" translates "the best guy in the whole village", quite a common saying meaning a handsome man)
February 1, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shady_arc

Some of this seems pretty random, however, it is pretty easy with words like "concert" and "park". A park is a place with clearly defined borders, whereas a concert is not even a place, but rather an event.

January 31, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Y.V.Smith

I don't speak Hebrew or Yiddish, but the "x" in хлеб sounds to me a lot like the "ch" in Chanukah...

April 9, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PaulBurrow7

I found the "and" difficult to hear, so it sounded as though was saying "mum, dad is in the park"

October 21, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PiotrWielk2

damn, why doesn't it accept "Mom and dad in the park" - it is also the same meaning of "Mama i papa v parke".

March 2, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OliverChar7

should Accept Papa for папа

May 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DialogBox1

Произношение в задании: "Мамы и папы в парке" - естественно выдаёт ошибку на ответ. Но звучит именно так! И что интересно, здесь, в обсуждении озвучка уже вставлена правильная: "Мама и папа в парке". Исправить бы надо аудио в задании, зачем людей вводить в заблуждение.

March 27, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Juan-Sartorovich

I put "The mom and the dad are in the park" and it marked it as wrong. I don't know why my mind wanted "the" everywhere in that sentence, but it shouldn't be wrong, right?

May 21, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DogePamyuPamyu

я в метрО а они в паркЕ... whyyyyyyy? I don't understand why doesn't metro need propositional case ending?

September 6, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GuilhermeH615416

It is a loan word from othet language, and it doesn't decline as other nouns

November 27, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shady_arc

As is парк, which does decline like other nouns.

November 27, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ahau.3

Loanwords are indeclinable, that's why. Read first, then ask, your question was already answered in this thread :)

October 29, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shady_arc

It is not as though парк is not a loanword.

October 29, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mostafa.sayed22

предложный падеж

May 14, 2016
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