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Have I just remembered something incorrectly or was park not "парк" previously? Like in Где парк? Does anyone know the reason behind this? Thanks in advance...
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«парк» is singular nominative and accusative, «парке» is singular prepositional.
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Correct me if I am wrong, but does that mean the only thing you have to do to make is prepositional is add the 'e'?
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A lot of the time yes, and the good news is that with singular nouns at least, the prepositional is the easiest case to learn (together with the accusative maybe). But not ALL the time. Take a look at this website for a more thorough explanation of when to add "e" and when to add something else: http://www.russianlessons.net/grammar/nouns_prepositional.php. On the left of that page that you can also look up how to form the other cases in the majority of cases. Of course, there are always exceptions. For those, I'd recommend remembering which are the "exception" words and then using: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D0%BB%D0%B5%D1%81. Go to Russian and then click "Declension", and you'll see all the case forms. (I used "лес" as an example because it has an unusual form in the prepositional.)
Edit: Apologies, that might have been misleading. Whilst "лес" does have an unusual form when used after "в", this should technically be called the "locative" case. You will learn this later in the course, but for now, you will certainly benefit from using the above sites.
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I won't delete this comment (in case anyone else makes the same mistake as me) but this question is answered in the comments at the start of the "module" or "section" or whatever you want to call it. Sorry about that... consider me duly reprimanded (by myself!)!
I find these comments extremely helpful. I do 99% of duolingo on the app which doesn't look like it has the lesson notes.
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That is correct. That's why I did not delete (my own) question, so those without the notes would be able to get the benefit.
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Which section do you find it? I've only gone through Basics 2, so I guess I'm getting this question a little early. Don't think we've seen anything about cases yet.
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Ok, the preposition "в" triggers the prepositional case and there for "парк" becomes "парке" in "в парке". But one of the first tasks on "Duolingo" was to translate "Мой багаж в такси" and "Дзенни в метро". Are both "такси" & "метро" in the propositional case? If so, what words is used in the nominative case?
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Yes, "такси" and "метро" are (in theory) in the prepositional case. However, because they are loan words from other languages, they do not decline in the same way as other nouns. (That is, they are indeclinable). Thus "такси" and "метро" are the same in all cases. You can find more information here: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BA%D1%81%D0%B8; https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D0%BC%D0%B5%D1%82%D1%80%D0%BE#Noun_2.
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No problem. Just so you know, the preposition "в" doesn't trigger the prepositional case as such. Instead, "в" followed by the prepositional has the specific meaning of "in" (meaning within or inside the confines of a space). If "в" is followed by the accusative then in general this has the meaning of movement in "to" the given space. Я иду в парк, for example, translates as "I'm going (on foot) to the park".
Please note, however, that whilst I am pretty sure what I just said is correct, I am not a native speaker of Russian, and I'm quite willing to stand corrected! Perhaps, if no one corrects me directly, keep an eye out for my theory in action as you move through the levels :-)
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Yes, you're correct. (Native Russian)
This logic is BTW completely the same in Deutsch: "into" is accusative, "inside" is dative for lack of prepositional case.
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Interesting. I will. Thank you very much for responding! Благодарб вас!
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The preposition "в" seems to be hard to hear. I could only discern it on slow speed. Is it hard to hear for a native speaker, or anyone else?
Nope, it is easy to hear. What else can the sound you hear between the "папа" and the "парк" represent? It is not that Russian had a preposition that sounds «ф».
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I don't have trouble with it either, and I most definitely am not a native speaker.
I bet you have some trouble pronouncing things like "в парке" or "хлеб", though :)
He wouldn't be the only one... my (Russian) wife rather frequently teases me for my pronunciation of "хлеб" or, lately, "мышь"...
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I'm pretty sure you have problems with pronouncing "ле", because that's what gives away many Americans and British trying to speak Russian. French don't have that problem though :-)
And the "ы" sound of course, that's quite unique, never found it in any other language.
My mother tongue is actually French, so I don't have any problems there :). So far, it really has been only "хлеб" and anything with "ы"... I wonder what it will be next~
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Not to much trouble with "в парке", actually. But "хлеб", yes, because I haven't fully figured out how to get the right sound when I'm trying to say"х".
Hm... It is approximately the same place in your mouth where you say the "K". But, while [k] is an abrupt sound, suddenly interrupting the airflow, for a Х your go in and go out smoothly, like in a "sh".
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I think this is one of those things I need demonstrations. :-( I just don't seem to be able to get my mouth to behave how I want it to. Since you used "хлеб" as an example, is that related to "хлебом"?
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Yes, I can pronounce "hue", but I think native English speakers do it a bit differently. I know Scottish "loch" is the same sound, but I can never say that correctly either.
Thanks! Now I wonder why I knew the word хлебом. :-)
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I just went on Forvo and listened to you pronounce a few words containing х, and it definitely isn't the same sound as the h in hue. I can hear in my head how х should be pronounced, I can just never actually say it that way.
It isn't, though, probably, if you listen to химия, it won't be as jarring. Try moving your tongue a bit, using the middle part of your tongue in different ways. It is not like this sound is complicated, and maybe you even did it in your life. You simply never used exactly that position in a language.
You don't need to be perfect anyway. Just make it feel comfortable enough, so that words like хлеб, охрана and мягкий (actually, /мяхкий/ is the recommended pronounciation) do not cause too much trouble. Maybe this is the whole point of learning the correct pronunciation: if you get close, pronouncing different vowel and consonant combinations becomes easier than when you use sounds that are way off.
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Maybe it's just complicated for me. :-)
I generally come up with either something like h or something like k. I suppose the h would be closer? I wouldn't say that's the whole point of learning the pronunciation. You also learn it so that other people can have a clue what on earth you were just saying. :-)
I know I don't have to be perfect, but unfortunately (in this case), I'm rather a perfectionist. :-) I'm working on it, though, and one of these days I will get it right.
Well, I am sure you can pronounce "hue", do you? Actually, even the "y" in "yacht" gives you an idea of the smooth motion you do. Just the place is somewhat different and the shape of the tongue not the same.
хлебом is a form of хлеб. Each noun that isn't indeclinable (some loanwords just do not fit the patterns) has them. Хлебом is the Instrumental singular (other examples include молоком and even днём, ночью, вечером, утром, зимой, летом, осенью and весной—a number of time expressions come from Instrumental forms of corresponding nouns).
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But there is the same sound in English. For example in the word "Hope".
@Kavadera: it is pretty well known these sounds are not the same. I wonder where you got the impression they are. Surely, in this day and age it is easy to check which sounds they are and even listen to how people pronounce them.
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That might be regional, I suppose, because I've never heard the h in hope said the way I've heard х. Where are you from?
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I think that's a slightly different sound. I've heard native speakers say "х" a few times, and it doesn't sound quite the same.
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@kavadera, @A_User
You gotta be kidding me! Please listen to words "Hope" and "Хорошо" and say where is the difference?
It's just ridiculous, because there is no difference. I've been living abroad for several years when I was little. I have never had problems communicating in English. Now I live in Russia and still have calls with foreign colleagues in English. Based on my 15 years of practising English I can say that even if there is some difference between "h" sound in "hope" and sound for Russian "х", it's SOOOOOOOOO vague and SOOOOOOOOOO insignificant, that you may ignore it and everybody will understand you clearly.
And one more point: letter "х" in Russian language is always pronounced the same. There is no difference between "успех" and "хорошо" concerning "х" pronounciation.
I don't want to argue anymore. If you don't believe me, it's you choice.
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Why do we use на referring to a concert, like in "Я на конце́рте", but в referring to a park, since they are very similar places?
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"На" is used with some events. For example a concert, a party, a meeting, etc.
"В" is used with some areas. For example a park, a village, a city, etc.
However there are some not very logical combinations. For example:
- "В отпуске" - on a holiday
- "На море" - on a seaside
- "В беде" - in trouble
- "На курорте" - in a resort
I'm not trying to frighten you, but bare in mind that preposition is one of the most difficult part of any foreign language. Don't try to find the 100% logic, you will get used to these exclusions one day, just keep practising. Actually, trying different prepositions is not always wrong, it may just vary the meaning. For example:
- "В море" - in the sea
- "На деревне" - in the whole village (for example "Первый парень на деревне" translates "the best guy in the whole village", quite a common saying meaning a handsome man)
Some of this seems pretty random, however, it is pretty easy with words like "concert" and "park". A park is a place with clearly defined borders, whereas a concert is not even a place, but rather an event.
Just a site-usage question: Is there a way to redo the current page/question? I mistyped something in this one and then, when I went to backspace, I accidentally hit "enter" without having even a full word entered. Of course, the entry was marked as incorrect, but I couldn't see any way to fix it.
I found the "and" difficult to hear, so it sounded as though was saying "mum, dad is in the park"
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damn, why doesn't it accept "Mom and dad in the park" - it is also the same meaning of "Mama i papa v parke".
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я в метрО а они в паркЕ... whyyyyyyy? I don't understand why doesn't metro need propositional case ending?
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Loanwords are indeclinable, that's why. Read first, then ask, your question was already answered in this thread :)
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It is a loan word from othet language, and it doesn't decline as other nouns
