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"Ognuno ha i suoi giudizi personali."

Translation:Everybody has their personal opinions.

November 28, 2013

48 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vanname

Although you will often hear "everybody has their..." it is not correct English grammar.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoyReynold

I agree. The possessive pronoun should be singular


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ligne_
  • 1261

"their" is a singular pronoun; see the usage note at https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/they and definition 2 at http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/200291#eid18799733


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sybille.Holz

Oh, ok. I didn' t know that fact.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/judycucin

JUST what I was going to write!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Penny1945

I agree, it is poor English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LSXYZ9

How is it correct, then?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LSXYZ9

What's the correct form?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/favoprocione

I'm sorry, but the idea that 'their' (and all related pronoun forms) is not allowed to be used in the singular was made up by stuffy Victorian grammarians. Not only is 'they' the most widely accepted gender-neutral third person pronoun in English (besides the de-humanising 'it'), but it has been since before English was English, whatever constitutes English in the first place (seriously, there are almost too many dialects to count). Entitled aristocrats getting pissy at odd-sounding parts of language is not a reasonable basis for language formation. Try reading some Jane Austen, or Shakespeare, I dunno. Use, like that of writers, creates language, rules do not dictate language, and the idea that English has 'correct' grammar in the first place is just completely bizarre. All we need to do is understand each other and if that is achieved, then little else actually matters.

I may have written an unnecessary mini-essay, but 'they' is quite important to me, not least because it is gender-neutral and personal (unlike 'it', which is demeaning when used for a person, and 'one', which is confusing and archaic).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/redbrickhouse

"All we need to do is understand each other..."

How do you propose to do that with no grammar rules? If there is no standard, how could we possibly know what another person means by a vocalization or scribbling? It seems to me that the end result of your way of thinking is complete misunderstanding. We would each be our own authority on what our own grunts mean, and we would be clueless about everyone else's. Grammar is for language what laws are for a society. Can you picture any sort of civilization with no laws? Likewise there would be no language without grammar, however badly you would like this to be true.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alexros83

Too much bla-bla-bla and you did not explain why the use of "their" in this instance is correct or incorrect.

It did shock me when I saw it and I also "thought" it was incorrect. It is not incorrect. It is unusual (at least to me) but not incorrect.

EVERYBODY is a singular indefinite pronoun. Because of the suject-verb agreement it can be said that "has" is correct. A Pronoun and its antecedent should also agree in gender and number as well. THEIR is a plural pronoun therefore at first glance it would seem to be incorrect to use it with a singular antecedent.

According to the learners section of the dictionary.com app. THEIR can be used instead of "his or her" to indicate that something belongs or relates to a person without saying weather that person is a man or a woman.

Everybody has "his or her" personal opinions.

Everybody has "their" personal opinions.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sybille.Holz

Hm ... Ok, alexros83, one never finishs learning. Was that grammatically ok?

I hope I will remember your explaining, whenever a sentence sounds weird to me.

Thank you!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Soglio

All grammar rules are made up: like language itself, they are a human invention. Whether you choose to follow a particular rule, whether you'll be penalized for flouting the rule, depends very much on where and with whom you choose to flout it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/favoprocione

In fairness, not actually a human invention, especially not in the sense that it's isolated to us. Additionally, I would still argue that rules that are directly decided before use and those that are actually just patterns that are recognised after the fact have different value. The idea of grammar rules being something you can be penalised for the flouting of, and that there is any sort of 'correct English', for that matter, both make me very uncomfortable. Again, and I suppose in question form, does anything beyond simply making ourselves understood actually constitute language? Or are rules that are not recognised, malleable usage patterns simply tools of power masquerading as elements of a tool of communication?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Soglio

"Not actually a human invention"? "Rules directly decided before use"? Who invented these, then? Who made the rules?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/favoprocione

What I mean is that other species have language, and that language was not solely invented by humans; thus we cannot only look at ourselves as its arbiters and be unaware of all the ways it can be used or defined. In regards to your other questions, I mean that you have to provide evidence that something is not widely used or widely understood in order to say it's a rule that it's wrong to use (I think I just compared language to science somehow). I am simply passionate about this because I know that it is in use and that very many people find it valuable, including may people I know, incidentally or personally. The use of singular 'they' actually aggravates me, but I don't discount a widely used and widely understood piece of language just because it's unsavoury.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/UbwFYffR

Soglio, the main problem with your either being a grammatical anarchist or else leaving your choice of expression to what you think might be the reaction of your audience is that by not following the rules of our language you invite confusion on the part of your reader(s) or listener(s). It can also reduce your credibility by making you sound ignorant. DL's use of "their" in the translation is simply wrong and inconsistent with its choice of the singular verb "ha".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/UbwFYffR

Bad grammar is not well defended by Favoprocione's calling good-grammar-adherents "stuffy Victorian" or "pissy", nor is it sufficient defense to count how often such mistakes are made. Even if counting opinions were relevant (it isn't because the winning position is the correct one, not the most popular), one could try counting how many of the postings above agree with the requirement for singular form, versus the contrary, in which case singular form would win by a landslide. The relevant facts are facts of etymology and consistency. Etymologically, "his", "her" and "it" are the only forms of singular third person pronouns; "their" does not cut it because it is plural form.

The main problem of trying to use "their", besides the absence of a good reason to deviate from its plural meaning, is the inconsistency it would create. We are asked to translate "Ognuno ha i suoi giudizi personali". The subject "Ognuno" is equivalent to English "Everyone", which means "Every one", clearly singular form as it refers to the random choice of a single individual, and is accompanied by the singular for Italian verb "ha". It is "ha", not "hanno" but using "their" would require "hanno". DL's use of "their" is simply wrong and inconsistent with its choice of the singular verb "ha".

Favoprocione further argues "try reading some Jane Austen, or Shakespeare, I dunno." What is "I dunno", is it "I don't know"? That's probably right, you don't know; otherwise, you could provide examples from Austen or Shakespeare.

Kudos and a lingot go to redbrickhouse, who made the case for singular form more eloquently, and with whom I agree.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rthessler

You've just contradicted yourself. You claim that "they" can be used in the singular. So, explain how you're supposed to express possession when referring to a neutral third-party? That's right, "their" is used in the singular. There's literally no other way to do it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GregHullender

It really does mean opinion, here, but of the four ways to say opinion in Italian, it seems to be the strongest:

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=507765

My summary of the thread is that:

l'opinione is more like "off the top of my head." No real thought implied

il parere is probably closest to "the opinion" although since parere is "to seem" my mnenomic is "it seems to me that . . ." That is, I could explain this opinion if you asked me to.

l'aviso is usually "the warning" and apparently you use this one to say "I'm not going to change my mind." My mnemonic is that it looks a bit like "advice" and if I'm giving you my advice, that means I think I know it and I think you don't.

I really want to make giudizio mean "prejudice," but that's pregiudizio. Anyway, it's opinion in the sense of judgment, except that in English we don't "have" judgments we "make" or "pass" them.

I wonder if the above would translate better as "everyone makes his own personal judgments."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/grainemhaol

That was so clear & helpful. Thank you!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BrucePlumb

Very clear, thank you. But also "secondo me" is translated "in my opinion". How strong or clear or prejudiced is that?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FrancescoS213

Why is "Everybody has his own judgements" considered wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Chilari

Because not everybody is a "he". Women and non binary people have opinions too.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alanvoe

That is incorrect. "Everybody has his personal judgements" is accepted on 09/02/2018. "personale" means "personal" in English, not "own".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JeaniePres

I am asking a question, not entering the endless discussion below of correct English grammar. While "his" is correct and "their" is usually not correct, in writing pamplets, or instructions in today's world , the plural pronoun is recommended to avoid gender issues. That said, my question is .... what is the accepted form in Italian? Is it preferable, even more correct, to use the 'i suoi' instead of "il suo"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnahAnaya

I keep getting this wrong because their English grammar is faulty. Argg! Now I have to memorized their mistakes to answer correctly.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FrancesDuce

After all your discussions why the use of. "I SUOI"
"Their" is to belong - like personal " i loro" why wasnt i loro used.??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/treszter

It didn't feel right to put judgement into plural. but i'm not an English speaker. Can somebody help?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Soglio

"Judgments" is perfectly correct when it means, essentially, an opinion. It is only odd to use the plural when the term is used to mean the capacity or quality of judging: "In my judgment, the sentence is OK." See http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/consequence


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mi_Chiamo_Chris

Opinzioni sono Come____Ognuno Ha Uno.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NadinaMaria22

I automatically translated the Italian sentence to: Everyone has his/her own personal opinions (I think that would be the proper English) I enjoyed learning a new word today--giudizi !


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LisaKropp

Ironically it wasn't the use of their that through me for the English translation, although I know that most would have said, his, or her. My question is the use of i suoi for the word "their". Is that something that is normally used, as I know it indicates his or her plural.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alanvoe

"suoi" is the 3rd person singular possessive pronoun used for more than one thing/person. suoi giudizi = his/her/its judgements/opinions


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VamsVams

Ognuno (everybody the pronoun), ha (has), i suoi giudizi personali (it's plural noun + adjective, or their personal opinion)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ev5EiZ

The English translation is grammatically incorrect. That's very annoying and needs to be changed.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TerryMay1

Get it together DL. You cannot teach language if you cannot differentiate between singular and plural! Learning language is becoming increasingly difficult for English speakers because many can no longer distinguish between singular/plural, subject/object, and here you are not helping.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sybille.Holz

This sentence is grammatically not correct translated. One has to decide between singular or plural.

You can say:

All have their personal opinions.

Or you can say:

Everybody has it's personal opinion.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/UbwFYffR

Bille, you expressed a correct perception, but first you cannot correctly write: "Everybody has it's personal opinion". The contraction "it's" that you substituted for a possessive adjective yields "Everybody has IT IS personal opinion," which is nonsense. Better to lose the apostrophe and observe grammar when trying to correct someone else's.

What you perceived correctly is that the exercise translation is wrong grammatically. The main problem is in the choice of "their" as the possessive adjective. Its plural form is incompatible with the singular subject "ognuno" and verb "ha", not for example "tutti hanno" for compatibility with "their". Taking "suoi" to imply multiple subjects would imply an incompatibility between "ognuno" and "suoi giudizi".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alanvoe

A single person may have several things, so I disagree there is an incompatibility between "ognuno" and "giudizi" in the Italian sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/UbwFYffR

Alanvoe, of course a single person can have multiple opinions, but we are dealing with grammatical number here. The subject is "Ognuno ha", not "Ognuno hanno", quite logically as "One has" makes sense and "One have" does not. Translating the object as "their opinions" would require the nonsensical subject form "Ognuno hanno". To use the plural form in the object translation, I propose that one can have "opinions" modified by "his or her" (not "their"). I will edit the post to which you replied to make this clearer, and thank you for providing the occasion to do so (a lingot to you).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Laot19

I think this translation could be right: "Everybody has its own personal opinions"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BrucePlumb

Sounds like a brave attempt to avoid all the arguments on this discussion board. Unfortunately, in English one does not usually refer to a person with "it".

The English is causing all the trouble. The Italian seems much clearer and simpler. Good reason to learn Italian!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sybille.Holz

You are so right, BrucePlump!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/skillz
  • 1239

"Each have their own opinions"

I was surprised that was wrong.

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