Surely putting something somewhere is a single action? I would have expected a perfective verb?
I suspect a more natural rendering of the sense of the imperfective would be, "Where will you be putting/placing this chair?" Like you're in a furniture store and they're asking you if you will be putting the chair you're contemplating in the living room vs the dining room (with the understanding that from time to time you might need it somewhere else, but you'll bring it back, so the "putting" in its 'home position' will happen a number of times) - instead of the actual act of bringing it inside and setting it down. [caveat emptor: I state this partially with the motivation that if incorrect a native will come by and correct me so that I understand better]
"where will you put" and "... be putting..." are basically equivalent in English in such a scenario, since we have no native concept of aspect. :P
I am a native Russian. "будешь ставить" IS used along with "поставишь". The perfective verb refers to one-time action whereas the complex future tense with the imperfective verb following будешь leaves it uncertain whether you will put the chair once or do it on a regular basis or just be in the process of putting it somewhere at a particular time in the future. Naturally, "будешь ставить" is used less often than "поставишь" as most of the time we think of "putting" as a particular one-time action.
Thank you for your invaluable help on this and other questions. The use of imperfective for repeated future actions or actions one is in the process of doing in the future seems pretty clear. What is the kind of action for which it could only be done once (or were you just referring to in-process actions)?
Does the reversibility of the 'putting' play into this? My grammar book calls for imperfective for actions in the past that have been reversed. I'm wondering if this plays a role in the future. For instance is будешь ставить perhaps more likely for a dining room chair in my furniture store example above (b/c such chairs are pretty easy to move) than for e.g. a large armchair. Or is that taking it too far?
I'm not sure what you mean. I'll give you some examples with сажать/посадить картошку (to plant potatoes). В мае мы посадили картошку = In May, we planted potatoes (We've planted all the potatoes we intended to plant). В мае мы сажали картошку = In May we were (busy) planting potatoes. (It is not clear whether we finished the job and it's irrelevant anyway). В мае мы посадим картошку = We will plant (all our) potatoes in May. В мае мы будем сажать картошку = In May we will be planting / are going to plant potatoes. Каждый год в мае мы будем сажать картошку = Every year in May we will plant potatoes.
Planting potatoes is an irreversible process. I hope, I've answered your queastion.
Amazing. Thanks so much. I've been looking for a pithy, to-the-point explanation like this for a long time.
One last question (which, admittedly, I posed poorly above): I understand that imperfective is used for actions in the past that have been reversed or undone. For instance, я открываил окно, а потом Анна закрыла его. I am wondering if something similar is applicable in the future, something like Ты будешь ставить кресло перед дверью, а затем я подниму его и поставлю его в гостиную. (with apologies for errors I will undoubtedly have introduced)
We say Я открыл окно for "I've opened the window" when the window is still open. We also say Я открыл окно for "I opened the window" when we refer to one particular occasion of opening the window in the past as a complete action as in Я открыл окно и проветрил комнату (I opened the window and aired the room). In this case, the window is likely to be closed at the moment of speech. We say Я открывал окно for "I was opening the window" (e.g. when the door bell rang). We also use открывал after adverbial modifiers of frequency such as время от времени, часто, иногда, много раз, никогда не, ни разу не. In the absence of such adverbial modifiers, you can put the stress on открывал to render the meaning "I've opened the window (the number of times remains uncertain if not stated, but it can be just once), but now it's closed". And if you want to deny the action, you also have to use the imperfective verb: Я не открывал окно (in this case you can also use the genitive form окнА instead of окно, although this usage is considered dated by some people). This will emphasize that you have never opened it, whereas Я не открыл окно will simply mean you failed to open it or imply that you did or were trying to do something else with the window.
I don't know where you got this idea from. Because it's not true. In the case of a one-time event all the verbs should be perfective: Я открыл окно, а потом Анна его закрыла. (It was done once). In the case of a repeated action all verbs should be imperfective: Каждый раз когда я открывал окно, Анна его закрывала. Если ты будешь ставить кресло перед дверью, я буду уносить его в гостиную и оставлять его там (The last sentence is a warning or even a threat). Another possibility is Если ты будешь ставить кресло перед дверью, я на тебя обижусь (perfective). Here будешь ставить refers to either the beginning of a one-time action or a repeated action whereas обижусь (I will take it as an offense) refers to a single change in the emotional state. Yet another option is Если ты будешь ставить кресло перед дверью, я буду на тебя обижаться. (I will take it as an offense each time you put the armchair in front of the door).
Ah, I see the distinction now. The usage of the imperfective I'm referring to is the 5th one here: http://masterrussian.com/blverbtable.shtml
I see that if I explicitly mention the event of someone else closing the window, then my opening it should be perfective. Now it all makes sense. Thanks for bearing with me!
In fact "будешь ставить" is almost never used in Russian. At least in most of the regions. "Поставишь" completely replaces it for such situations. People will understand you in both cases, though, but I remember when I first heard "Будете ехать" instead of "поедете" I thought the woman who said it wasn't Russian :)
"Когда вы будете ехать в ..." means "On your way to --" with the implication that you'll be using a vehicle to travel. "Когда ты будешь ставить" means either "While putting" or "Every time you put", so "будешь ставить" refers to either the action in progress or the repeated action. And the phrase is used everywhere in Russia, regardless of the region.
Leonid has probably never heard these forms because they are rarely necessary, not because they are wrong. Judging from people's comments, this is a bad example to demonstrate the Imperfective future, and I've flagged it.
I have to admit that "Когда вы будете ехать в" is hardly ever used indeed, because the phrase has a much shorter alternative "По дороге в" (On your way to), and shorter alternatives are always preferred according to the language economy principle defined by André Martinet.
'Where are you going to put this chair?' was marked wrong. It's pretty conversational English to my American ears.
I think your question might boil down to: "Why isn't 'Where will you be putting this chair?' isn't accepted?" To which the answer would be, I do believe, "No good reason at all, report it." :)
I don't think I would ever say that. Chairs normally just "are" in places, but if one for some reason (which would be highly unusual) specify the manner of their being in a place, the verb would be "sit," not "stand": "the chairs sit in the living room." This presumably makes "stand" for the verb of locating them in a place all the more unlikely.
We need a transitive verb here. You are not trying to say that “be setting” should be used, are you? I think “will you be putting”/“are you going to put” are the best options.
Right, "be setting" isn't a good choice, but it's a more likely to come out of a native speaker's mouth than anything with "stand" (whether transitive or intransitive) for a chair.
[Come to think of it further, I could imagine "standing" a folded-up folding chair against a wall or some such, but I don't immediately see how to incorporate that potential usage into this sentence in any quasi-reasonable way.]
Fully agreed that something with "put" is best. As a side note, for me in this sentence "will be putting" has a recurring meaning only as a pretty secondary matter. It mostly sounds like a one-time action; or at the very least it strongly emphasizes the first "putting," to the extent that normally one needn't actively consider any others. "are you going to put" and "will you put" seem completely interchangeable to me.
"To put" leaves options for the placing the object in space.
The verb "ставить" supposed just the specific method of the placing.
Ставить and класть are different actions with different results.
And if you ask me to put the chair, I will clarify should I " поставить" или "положить" it.
By default one "puts" something somewhere in its most natural orientation.
Yes, this isn't explicit in the verb, but if someone tells me to put the armchair in the living room, I'm going to put it upright. If they want it in some other orientation, that can be expressed in the verb: "lay the armchair down in the living room."