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  5. "Buy ice cream for dessert."

"Buy ice cream for dessert."

Translation:Купи мороженое на десерт.

November 26, 2015

68 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cbn620

Why not "для"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shady_arc

well, для only works if you are not going to eat it for dessert.

Otherwise phrases like for breakfast / for lunch / for dinner / for dessert call for a set expression, which uses на + Accusative in Russian.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WzM72

Если я хочу сделать десерт и для него нужно мороженое, как сказать по английски: "Купи мне мороженое для десерта"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shady_arc

Так же.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mark369927

It sounds to me like "на" is always used when we want to use "for" with a specific time or an event (not a duration of time). Is that right? If so, phrases like: "for the party", "for autumn", and "for the end" would all use "на". Am I understanding correctly?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Joseph991969

Awesome. Thanks


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/85Vn

No difference для or на.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenYoung84

My understanding is that while both для & на can mean "for", для десерта means "for dessert" in the sense of "to improve the dessert", whereas на десерт means "for dessert" in the sense of "so that it can be the dessert". Subtle differences and both are possible interpretations of "for dessert" in English, but the latter is far more likely in this context.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alf-Sawman

Yes, if you use для, you indicate that you're talking about an ingredient to go into the dessert, e.g. "buy sugar for the cake" or "carrots for the soup".

If you intend to say "we're going to have X for dessert/dinner/lunch/breakfast/supper, then the set expression is на + akkusative.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/masrlinu

Для means that an object is directed to somebody or something: подарок для меня, колесо для машины, земля для крестьян, заводы для рабочих, цветы для женщин, мороженное для детей. In most cases it can be substituted with Dative without prepostion: подарок мне, мороженное детям, etc.  За (in your case) means the reason: спасибо за помощь (I'm thanking you because you helped me), награда за храбрость (you are awarded because you were brave), плата за работу (I pay because you worked), etc. "For time" construction is translated usually with на: на 5 дней.

Copied from https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/За-vs-для-vs-на-for-for.2116549/


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlYugov

You can use "для" but the phrase becomes "Купи мороженое для десертА".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lid367675

However "Купи мороженое для десерта" is not accepted as of 3/18/20. I'd better learn "на десерт". :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alf-Sawman

Well, the meaning wouldn't be exactly the same...I would interpret your text as you were going to make something for dessert where the ice cream is going to be an ingredient. The English text could mean that, so it's not entirely wrong, but I think the idea here is that they're going to HAVE ice cream for dessert, rather than USE it to make a dessert... :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/janey_p

It seems like both "десерт" and "десерта" are accepted in this sentence and I have no idea why... Could somebody explain the grammar behind this to me, please?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shady_arc

десерта does not work here. See my comment above. Use of Acccusative is common for all "target" usages of на


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/janey_p

Interesting. While translating the sentence I accidentally tapped on "десерта" in the app and it took it as correct while telling me that "десерт" was another correct option...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/john.newbe

Sure that it didn't accept it as a typo ? I've had a few errors like that accepted (thank you Duo!)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/janey_p

It's been a while, but I think it said "Another translation:" and not that it was a typo. It was one of those "tap the blocks" exercises, so a typo shouldn't be possible, only right or wrong blocks - or so I thought...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AbrahamAde2

Typos are possible there too..I hit на десерте but duo accepted it as a typo


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Robrob1961

I did the same but it rejected the accusative with mine. Maybe the software has been updated?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shady_arc

What do you mean by "the Accusative"? Which word was in the Accusative?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Robrob1961

Sorry, maybe misused the case. I mean: "na desert" like "na stol" and as opposed to "na deserte" or "na stole."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alf-Sawman

Ok, Robrob1961, then Duo opposed to Locative and accepted accusative :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Oceans_11

Is покупай not appropriate here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ivaristal

Купи=buy it (once). Покупай=buy it (everytime you see it). For example, I really love one kind of tea, but in 50% cases there is no such kind of tea in local supermarket, so my family has a rule "покупАй Этот чай всЯкий раз когдА егО вИдишь" - "buy this tea every time (when) you see it". But if I want an ice cream for пОлдник (dessert time between lunch and dinner, something like British 5 o'clock tea), I'll call my boyfriend and say "купИ морОженое, когдА бУдешь идтИ с рабОты" - "buy an ice cream when you will be walking from work".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danielchall

Мороженое and мороженого are both acceptable. Why?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shady_arc

It is partitive use of the Genitive case. Count nouns are used in plural, mass nouns in singular. This use expresses "some" amount of that stuff, the amount essentially determined by how much the person ends up buying.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeffrey855877

I haven't gotten to the adj.spell module yet, but it appears that Мороженое is not invariable/indeclinable, so, although it acts as a neuter noun, its endings regarding case and number are determined by the rules for spelling adjective endings?

And - is it ever plural? In American English, we would never say "ice creams", but rather a phrase such as "6 kinds of ice cream" or "6 pieces of ice cream (the kind on a wooden stick)".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shady_arc

We treat мороженое as a mass noun and only use its singular form.

Пирожное is a count noun.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LJijieshvili

Why "на десерт" and not "на десерте"? What's the case of "десерт" here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Robrob1961

Accusative I believe. "На десерте" would translate as "on the desert."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NewmanB1

what case is десерт?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MattinMaverick

Accusative. Also See Shady's and BenYoung's comments further up the discussion.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DUzX2

Could we not use "к десерту"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ssenni

I would understand what you mean, but it would sound a bit weird to me. But, you could say к ужину/завтраку/обеду, talking about the meal That's different though, just illustrating the point.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/detailaddict

What is "Купите?" I don't know yet how this verb is conjugated, so this appeared to be the second person plural (i.e., imperative) form.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/detailaddict

I see...So is this verb in a particular class, or is it irregular?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shady_arc

It is completely regular, like говорить or любить. The stress pattern is the same as that of любить.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/detailaddict

Okay; I supposed I'd come expect infinitives to end with -ть.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Robrob1961

Yes, to add more detail; infinitives tend to end with the "soft sign" (ь) but imperatives (orders/commands) are either in the plural imperative (as here) if being polite or the singular imperative if being brusk.

To ask someone to forgive is извините, to order someone to forgive is извини. (Please pardon any spelling mistakes).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theron126

Robrob's comment is somewhat misleading. You were right the first time, this is plural imperative. The infinitive is купить.

P.S. You can use this site to check the declensions of words: http://www.morfologija.ru/ e.g. enter купите and you get this: http://www.morfologija.ru/%D1%81%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BE%D1%84%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BC%D0%B0/%D0%BA%D1%83%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B5

Or you can use Wiktionary. I find it a bit less convenient but it has the advantages of being in English and marking the stress.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/detailaddict

I need to break out my copy of Barron's 501 Russian Verbs, along with Essentials of Russian Grammar, which I bought when I was still learning from a book. Should have thought of these before, as I prefer to have a reference in front of me while going through these exercises.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/detailaddict

And if Купите is indeed imperative plural, why was this sentence an incorrect choice?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/detailaddict

It was an exercise in which we had to pick all of the correct sentences; and I believe I picked the correct one plus the one beginning with Купите, but this was apparently wrong. I don't know why as it seemed everything was correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theron126

I see. The options aren't visible from the discussions, in fact I think the wrong ones are randomly generated. If it happens again that you don't know why an answer is wrong, it might be a good idea to paste the entire sentence into discussion.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/detailaddict

That is what I should have done; I guess I assumed everyone had been given the same exercise. Future reference!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Juan323304

На should not needs to be used with genitiv? That is what i understood please explain me that.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenYoung84

It's never genitive, it's either accusative or prepositional depending on the specific meaning.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/artczechowicz

Once again, duolingo accepts only their vision of Russian syntax. It's perfectly acceptable to say надо купить на десерт мороженое


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Costa_A2

But Why Десерт and not десерте i think we should use the propositional case here, right ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenYoung84

No this use of на is accusative. The meaning is more about transition than location.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LucasOrleb

Why купи instead of купить?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenYoung84

It's a command (imperative) so the form is different. The version with купить would be "To buy ice cream for dessert".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Apsa25
  • 1465

If you can have масло для картошки than why not мороженое для десерта - as an ingredient? You do intend to eat the butter (on potatoes), don't you?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shady_arc

Come to think of it, you option is also correct.

It is just that if you mean X is supposed to be served as a breakfast / lunch/dinner/"1st course"/"2nd course"/dessert you say that X is на + the name of the meal (Accusative but it hardly matters).

The subtle difference is, in the latter case ice-cream does not exactly help you eat or make your dessert better—it IS the dessert.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WilliamBil16

покуп мороженое ? is that ok?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WilliamBil16

and what is the difference between покуп and куп ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shady_arc

You mean, купить and покупать?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/North_Pole

And what "купи" stands for? It doesn't seem like a it connects to Ты or Вы... soo...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenYoung84

It's the imperative/command form for ты.

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